SWScouter

Wow, and to think I thought this thread would be about Personal Digital Assistants. (This message has been edited by SWScouter)

I meant ALF, not ELF. ALF: Animal Liberation Front. PETA would be very pleased in giving animals the same legal status as humans. For example, If you hit a deer driving, you could be indicted for manslaughter, and if you intentionally killed a deer, you could be indicted for murder. That is, after all, what animal rights means, and yes, animal rights does go completely against judeo-christian doctrine. Ingrid Newkirk of PETA, among others, does have quite a radical view of things. Ozemu, if you were driving at night and happened to go around a curve and hit and kill, e.g., an emu, do you feel that the law should be able to indict you for manslaughter or murder? That is animal rights, and that is way different than an animals right to life. In the bible that I read, God gives man dominion over all the beasts of the world. But let me also say that having dominion over something does not mean one can relinquish his or her responsibility to be a good and humane steward. SWScouter

Scotiacat wrote, "Is there anything this group won't do????" Considering that PETA is a front for ALF, a terrorist organization, I don't think so.

My son will be crossing over to Boy Scouts this February so I got him a Boy Scout belt, hat, neckerchief slide, red loops and one of those cedar scout boxes with the BP scout drawing on it to put it all in. SWScouter

Assuming that you'll have access to a car, I'd get an inverter and then, when needed, you can charge your battery overnight. The drain on the car battery is essentially negligible. SWScouter

Trevorum, let me flay your confusion. Now, I don't know if this is n4ari's situation, but it is common that new neighborhoods fall under the CC&Rs of a Home Owners Association. CC&Rs can be considered neighborhood laws. All home owners in the association have legally agreed to abide by the CC&Rs. Now it happens that many CC&Rs have rules about how the flag can be displayed. This usually means restrictions or bans with flag poles. I hope your confusion has been duly flaid. SWScouter

SemperParatus, thanks, those were great ideas. I was thinking along those lines too but anothers ideas and experiences are helpful. Does anyone else have any other ideas or experiences with how you closed out your den? I think moving beyond just what to do with the den flag is important. Thanks again, SWScouter

I've been the den leader for my son's den since they were wolfs. Right now they are Webelos 2s and are finishing up work on their AOL award and will be crossing over to Boy Scouts at the Pack's B&G this coming February. Currently, the den has a flag they designed (Fox den) that is adorned with many ribbons the den has managed to earn over the past 3-4 years for various things such as Natl. Den Award, Den Challenge at a Webelos Encampment, and so on. It also has a big glove hanging from it that they won at resident camp a couple summers ago. So, my question is, what should the den do with the flag and ribbons once they move on from Cub Scouts? Does your pack keep den heirlooms on display? Perhaps have a ceremonial flag retirement? Perhaps cut it in pieces and distribute to the boys? Burn it? Thanks, SWScouter

CalicoPenn, I enjoyed most of your post that I forgot it was you that wrote about the archery bear hunt. A big problem with archery hunting, is that a lot of bowhunters don't understand that the bow and arrows needed will vary with the game being hunted. A setup adequate for deer may very well not be for bear and probably won't be for bison. Most people seem to know that, for example, a 22LR is fine for rabbit but completely inadequate for deer. The same issues occur for bowhunters too, but fewer seem to take that into account. When Howard Hill hunted elephant in Africa, he used a bow with much higher poundage and very heavy arrows. He knew better than to use the same setup he used for hunting deer in America. The movie, "Tembo," which he produced, documents his hunt. Once upon a time there was a bowhunter sponsored by PSE that went to Africa to hunt with his ultra slick PSE compound bow with overdraw and short super light arrows that flew very fast. He took several great shots at a cape buffalo. The arrows hit right where they were supposed too. The buff barely noticed it was being hit as the arrows bounced right off. The guiding service pretty much stopped the whole hunt. Needless to say, PSE kept this as quiet as it could. Not only was it a marketing nightmare, it really damaged the reputation of all bowhunters and made it difficult for other bowhunters to secure the guiding services they need for hunting African big game. Well, I think I've strayed off topic long enough. Happy hunting, SWScouter

It seems there's a fair bit of misinformation running through this thread. Game management is a science and most states G&F departments are getting pretty good at it. There has been plenty of mis-steps through the years but things tend to be run pretty good nowadays. Game herds today are much better off now than they were a hundred years ago. I imagine that if we didn't have G&F departments to manage our wildlife we wouldn't have much wildlife left to enjoy. I think Prairie_Scouter should be very thankful for hunters because if they weren't around his photo safaries wouldn't be very successful nor enjoyable. I live in Arizona. AZ has an amazing number of big game species to hunt and really can be considered a hunter's paradise. There are antelope, elk, black bear, big horn sheep, cougar, several species of deer, bison, javelina. Most of the world record Rocky Mt. Elk have been taken here. The G&F department is constantly monitoring the herds of all big-game, and to a lesser extent small game. Each year, depending on the current population, environmental conditions such as water and forage levels, hunter success rates, calfing success, etc., they set the hunt limits for the coming seasons. All of this big game management has positive impacts on the small game such as fox, badger, coyote, skunk, raccoon, porcupine, etc. Basically all the money funding this is paid for by sportsmen via license fees, game tags, fishing stamps, taxes on ammunition, fishing gear and hunting weapons. There's been some comments about archery hunting and how a bow and arrow isn't an effective weapon. What's been written here is not true. I know several hunters that have killed bison with bow and arrow. Killing bear with bow & arrow is a common occurrence. The famous Howard Hill (did bow & arrow shooting for Errol Flynn as Robin Hood) killed an African bull elephant with a longbow & arrow. As a matter of fact, all the big five (elephant, rhino, lion, leopard, cape buffalo) have been taken with a bow. The big problem is bow hunters that concern themselves with arrow speed instead of impact force. Fast, light arrows may work fine on deer or Mt. lion but they aren't as effective as a slower heavier arrow on thick skinned game such as bison. These light arrows aren't effective with thick bone too, such as shoulder blades and skulls. Of course, the head is a pretty ineffective place to shoot some big game as bullets are even known to ricochet of the skull. I've hunted. Currently the only firearm I have is a 12g. shotgun I've taken dove and quail with. I have several bows. A compound, a recurve, and a couple of longbows. The only game I've taken with them are carp (bow fising) and a couple of rattle snakes. I've bow hunted for mule deer, elk, antelope, and javelina, never successfully. I shot at a fox once we called in but was a bit high. So it goes. My dad's dad used to hunt deer a lot. My dad liked to hunt pheasant but doesn't care much for big game hunting. I never went hunting with him and didn't know he ever hunted until we talked after I had started getting into archery hunting. I love to camp and be in the great outdoors. When I hunt, I am way more aware of my surroundings. The concentration on everything around is much more heightened. To me, that is probably the biggest draw for hunting. I don't really care if I have a "successful" hunt or not, there is just something quite spectacular and special about using ones senses in ways that aren't normally needed. Of course, filling my tag would be icing on the cake. Right now, my biggest problem with hunting is that I just haven't been able to take the time to do it for several years now. SWScouter

One thing to consider is that currently, LDS chartered Packs do not have Tiger cubs in their program. Perhaps, if there is a kindergarten aged program the LDS church may reevaluate having the Tiger Cubs in their program. That may be another reason why BSA has been integrating Tiger Cubs more into the Cub Scout program. Of course, this is just pure speculation on my part. SWScouter

I believe the 72 hours differentiator between long/short term camping has to do with whether a class 1, 2, or 3 medical form is needed or not. Check the medical forms, they should state that. I think (may easily be wrong) that a class 1 form is fine for up to 72 hours of camping for people under 40 if medical help is nearby. SWScouter

Well, since your son was removed as SPL, is the troop now SPLless? I would think perhaps so. If the SM now wants to start doing things right, there should be an election for a new SPL and new PLs. You may suggest to your son to again run for SPL and really rally the troop to vote for him just to send a message to the SM to help the boys lead their troop instead of it being run by the SM! Just a twisted thought on a possible course of action... SWScouter

First, congrats SemperParatus on 20 years of marriage! My wife and I are a bit over half way through our 15th year of marriage. Sometimes it's been good, sometimes bad but I really do adore her. I'm a Webelos den leader and on Cub Roundtable staff. I try to keep a balance with things but so far this year the den's been doing a lot of stuff. We had five activities in Sept. and six in both Oct. and Nov., then last Sat. we spent the day with a troop on a camping trip. We thought it would be a bit too cold for the Webelos so we just spent the day instead of staying overnight. It has been too much, my son's been complaining. It's time to take it down a notch or too for the remainder of the den's existence (just over two months). I wouldn't mind doing more for scouts, but I do enough now that I think it's best not too. I'm sure my wife would be pleased if I did less and would not be if I did more. Last night I was browsing this forum and she asked what I was doing. I said it was scout stuff and she replied that I'm too into scouts and ought to get another hobby. Oh well... SWScouter

2972!

Most every morning I tie two knots. Yes I'm tying my shoes with a bow. Anyway, isn't a bow just a fancy square knot. Shouldn't those scouters that are trying to rebuild a troop at least know how to tie a bowline, after all, it is the rescue knot. My Webelos den went to the last spring camporee. One contest they did was to pitch a lean-to. Since they were Webelos, the adults got to help. While the boys were staking the two back corners and driving the two front stakes, I tied the ropes to the tarp with a two-half hitch and put a taut-line on the other end. We didn't work fast, we just did it. Turns out we had the fastest time of anybody for the whole camporee. The next fastest group was something like 40 seconds slower. Quite a lot considering we were under two. I watched the scouts do this before we did and was quite amused with how they were trying to tie the rope to the tarp and the stakes. It really was abysmal. Oh, by the way, a two-half hitch is not a knot, it is a hitch. I don't understand how the scouts can't remember the basic knots and hitches. Square knot, two-half hitch, and taut-line. All three are very simple and will cover most every situation they will encounter. Add in the bowline and they are probably completely covered until they start lashings. Don't scouts back pack anymore? That should give them ample opportunities for using knots. They would be setting up rain flies and possibly lashing something to their pack, perhaps a sleeping bag. Or maybe they'll tie a rope around their sleeping pad so it won't unroll. I use knots so much when I go camping I just can't imagine not knowing how. It is just easy, fast, and convenient. A lot easier than figuring out what to do instead. Wow, this kind of turned into a rant didn't it. Oops. SWScouter

The requirement does state, "Successfully complete." I interpret this to mean that the scout must pass the BSA swimmer test to complete the requirement. SWScouter

Thank you ljnrsu, that is what I meant. SeattlePioneer brings up another great example of my point. He wrote, "If a Scout completes a 25 mile bicycle trip on an outing, is there really anything really wrong with making a point of recording the date of that achievement so the Scout receives credit for that when he gets around to seriously earning the Merit Badge?" Requirement 8 of the bicycling merit badge is: Avoiding main highways, take two rides of ten miles each, two rides of fifteen miles each, and two rides of twenty-five miles each. You must make a report of the rides taken. List dates, routes traveled, and interesting things seen. Requirement 9 is: After fulfilling requirement 8, lay out on a road map a fifty mile trip. Stay away from main highways. Using your map, make this ride in eight hours. Here, recording that a scout went on a 25 and 50 mile ride doesn't meet the requirements. SWScouter

Seattle Pioneer, I'm having a little trouble following the benefit of what you're suggesting. It's my understanding that a scout would have a blue card and the MBC would note completion of requirements as he/she approves the work, and then, when all requirements are met, sign the blue card. I fail to see how the advancement chair (or whomever) marking requirements as complete on a blue card can suffice. I as a MBC will not sign a blue card as complete if a scout shows me one with all the requirements marked off by someone else. What I will do, is talk to the scout, go over the requirements one by one and when I am satisfied that they are met, I will record them on the card. As a MBC, that's my job, not somebody elses. This in no way implies the boy must redo the requirement again, just that the boy must show, to my satisfaction, that the requirement has been met. SWScouter

The pack I'm in charges $30 per year for dues. That inclues the $10 for registration and $1.20 for insurance. If the boy wants BL that's another $12. That gets the boy all the awards he earns and a pinewood derby car. The pack also has a fish fry the first Friday of lent for a fundraiser. Den finances are completely separate from pack funds. I charge another $5 per month for den dues. Also, the boys sell Scout-O-Rama tickets. The commission goes straignt to the den's general fund. The past two years, boys in the den have sold popcorn. All commission a boy earned was put into an account to help pay for his summer camp fees. Last year, the den funded $75 per boy for camp, not bad considering that each boy paid $45 in dues. SWScouter SWScouter

Oh my gosh! Break out the champagne, err a bug juice, OldGreyEagle has two posts in one thread and neither of them double posted. Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic...

Meamemg wrote, "The blue cards haves two spots for the SM to sign. One giving permission to start the badge, and one saying it was completed. whether the SM can not sign it after the councelor has, I don't know, but there is two spots for the SM to sign." This is basically true, but the second signature is a receipt for the scout that the merit badge application was turned in. It is not to say the badge was completed and it is not on the application part (the unit's part) of the blue card, it is on the part of the card the scout retains. SWScouter

TheScout wrote, "Merit Badge Counselor does not have final authority Scoutmaster must sign the blue card that the merit badge has been completed." This is wrong. The SM signs the blue card when it is given to the scout, not when the scout turns the blue card in after completing the MB. For example, scout goes to SM and says, "I'd like to work on the Golf MB." SM replies, "Great, here, let me sign this blue card for you and here's a Golf MB counselor you can work with." Scout says, "Thanks!" Once the MB counselor has signed the blue card as complete, the scout has earned the MB. There is nothing that the SM or anyone else for that matter, should do about it except process the blue card and award the MB to the scout. SWScouter

Another good reference for the qualification to be a SPL is in the SPL handbook. There is a whole chapter named, are you ready, Qualifications of a Senior Patrol Leader. It basically says that the troop can decide what the qualifications are, whether they be age, rank, tenure, etc. It does mention that a newer smaller troop would most likely have more lenient qualifications than a larger, more established troop. This basically makes sense since the SPL is the highest youth leadership position in the troop and there is a larger pool of boys to select from. SWScouter

Grand Canyon Council will be having it's annual Scout-O-Rama, Nov. 12 this year. I think it will be the 51st or 52nd annual SOR. There won't be one in 2006 though since the council is moving SOR from the Fall to the Spring; the next will be spring 2007. It is a pain immediately going from SOR ticket sales to popcorn sales. I don't know if that has anything to do with switching. SWScouter