SWScouter

So when does one receive the third bead? When he/she signs up for staff, at some staff development weekend, or just before the course actually starts? SWScouter

I won't comment on the flying permit form. As for the tour permit, since you are not providing transportation, you shouldn't need to worry about the transportation part of the local tour permit. Just write, "parent provided transportation." At least that's all I had to do filling out the LTPs here in Grand Canyon Council. You may want to call your council service center and verify if that is fine for you to do or not. Also, the two weeks is usually so there is plenty of time for mailing the forms back and forth and ensuring everything is fine. If you fax the forms and supply a fax number for the approved form you can get by with a week. If you hand deliver, it will probably be approved on the spot. I don't know how big of an impact the flying permit will have though. My daughter did this with her girl scout troop. It's a great program and the den should have a great time. SWScouter

So I should add that perhaps this is just a matter of having some of the troop leaders buy an updated version of the scout handbook and having them work from the latest requirements book. SWScouter

Okay, back to the original question. I believe that the swimming "demonstrate" requirements for 2nd class used to have a footnote that stated, "This requirement may be waived by the troop committee for medical or safety reasons." This was removed from the reprinting of the scout handbook in 2001. See http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/changes/bsrank3-01.html So, In the past, the troop committee could very well have done this under BSA auspices, but it has been several years since they were allowed to. SWScouter

A good chunk of my youth was spent at a pool. I was on a summer swim team and I dove all year round. I would either be wearing a speedo or a special suit for diving (not quite as brief as a speedo, but elastic and tight like a girdle for more support). At the time, speedo's were made of nylon; this was before lycra. Though I don't remember, I can't imagine I swam at camp in anything but a speedo. This was in the early 70's. One thing to keep in mind is that regular swim suits at the time were probably smaller and tighter than the boxers boys wear today. I swam on a Masters swim team a few years ago. All the men, including those with a gut, wore the lycra racing suits. So did the ladies. I've also spent a good chunk of my adult life cycling competitively and wear the tight lycra cycling shorts and the skin-suits (one piece short/shirt) riding. One wears the cycling shorts like swim suits, nothing on underneath, so perhaps I just don't worry too much about it. If I did, I wouldn't be able to enjoy the activities I love to do. Maybe I'm more pragmatic about things, but I would have thought the one-piece suit rule has to do with practicality and not modesty. A woman can jump, splash, and play around a lot more easily without accident of exposure in a one piece than in a bikini. Bluegoose makes a lot of good points about the advantages of speedos. One other is that they are easier to wear underneath one's pants or shorts. Also, they dry much quicker so it is easy enough to just wait a couple minutes and put your pants back on when you're done swimming. Think how much easier it would be if your troop wore speedos under there uniform pants when they checked into summer camp and went for the swim test. Another thing to keep in mind is that the really skimpy lycra suits probably are just those teeny little euro suits that swimmers don't wear. All that being said, I haven't worn a speedo for six years or so. You know what's really funny is right now the ads on the right are advertising TYR swim wear (Speedo competitor), Mastectomy swim wear and swim wear for large people. I just gotta laugh. SWScouter

Just so there isn't any more confusion I would like to make one correction to what CalicoPenn wrote. Varsity scout youth membership ends at age 18, just like Boy scouts. Venturer youth membership ends at age 21. SWScouter

Hi, In the Wood Carving MB booklet, two neckerchief slide templates are shown. One for an axe and the other an eagle head. Only the heigth and width of the wood blocks are given. If you know what the depths are please let me know. Thanks, SWScouter

And don't forget, "A person who has not been classified as a "swimmer" may ride as a passenger in a ... canoe, raft, or sailboat with an adult certified as a lifeguard or lifesaver by a recognized agency." SWScouter

Wow, I didn't get the patch either. Ronvo, er Campcrafter, you should be able edit your ronvo profile with your new email address. SWScouter

Hi Oldsm, welcome to the forum So are GPS receivers included in the "no electronics" policy? SWScouter

LongHaul, Visit the Frequently Asked Questions at http://www.scouter.com/forums/faq.asp#smilies SWScouter

Congratulations CajunCody. Jr56, it seems to me that a lot more eagles have ate fox than foxes have ate eagle. Think about it, how is a fox going to kill an eagle? Heck, I imagine a full grown Golden Eagle could swoop down and carry a fox away without much trouble at all! SWScouter I used to be an Eagle

Okay, just curious, don't male mosquitos have to eat too?

OneHour, I can surely understand why this is bothering you so. I think Ronvo and ScoutNut are giving you very good advice. Call someone with authority to find out the best way for you to handle this situation, especially with another occurrence like last night's. SWScouter

An hour of scouters.

Beavah, You're right, and it seems fairly obvious that the boys that drop out are the ones that aren't that interested in scouting so they aren't going to advance much anyway. I see the whole report as interesting but really rather obvious if you take a few minutes and think about it. For example, boys are more likely to drop out of troops with a weak outdoor program. A weak outdoor program means a weak overall scouting program and it's no wonder boys are dropping out of those units. To me, the message is that if you want to retain the scouts, make sure that they have a great scouting program! SWScouter

ljnrsu, I was a scout starting in '71 and used the '72 handbook. I don't have a copy now. One thing I do remember is Boards of Review with the troop committee, I don't remember anything called Progress Reviews. Interesting... SWScouter

I just read an interesting article from Patrick Murphy, 2005 National Chief of the OA. In it he summarizes a study that was done of why scouts quit. I found it interesting though it gave no details of how the study was conducted. The report can be found at: http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/programs/ttr/lettertounitrep.htm SWScouter

Venividi, I agree with you. I was basically countering Ed Mori's statement that, "the SM assigns the counselor." I imagine most scouts don't know a counselor for the MB he wants to earn and so the SM provides him one. I see nothing wrong with the scout using a MBC he knows about. I also think it would be courteous for the scout to tell the SM that he'd like to work with MBC X instead of MBC Y. There are all kinds of good, valid reasons why a scout may end up using a different MBC than the one the SM told him about. SWScouter

First the scout tells the SM he'd like to work on a MB. The SM either approves the request or not. If the SM approves the request, he/she signs the blue card and gives the scout the name of a qualified MB counselor. There's nothing I'm aware of that states the scout has to use that counselor. The Boy Scout Handbook doesn't, nor does the SM Handbook. After the scout completes the MB requirements, the MB counselor fills out and signs the appropriate portions of the blue card and retains one portion for his/her records. The scout then returns the blue card to the SM. The SM signs the portion of the blue card the scout keeps and turns in the other portion. This signature really is just a receipt for the scout and should have nothing to do with approval. SWScouter

Perhaps a forum moderator can let Scouter Terry know that the server's time is way off. That's assuming a moderator knows how to get in touch with him. Thanks, SWScouter

BSAChaplain, I wish you the best of luck as Troop Scribe. Eamonn wrote, "Scribe is a very tough and demanding job on this new course. So tough I had two and one other person to manage all the a/v presentations." A few weekends ago I was talking to one of my Woodbadge patrol members who had just completed being a Scribe for a Woodbadge course. It didn't sound like he had a very good experience. There was lots of work. He was always making last minute updates (per request) and ended up being the fall guy for things being late more often than he liked. I have no idea if this is typical for a woodbadge troop scribe. I certainly hope not. I would certainly follow Eamonn's advice and have a chat with the SM on expectations! I don't mean to put you off. I think serving on woodbadge staff is a wonderful opportunity, one I hope I have someday. I would even consider being scribe, though I would definitely want to know the expectations up front and I would want to have the demands on the scribe managed better. SWScouter

I must be in the twilight zone. My last post in this thread occurred before my first post in this thread. Really strange indeed.

I have a sneeky suspicion I'm living in the present once again.

Beavah, I wrote, "snow on the ground and falling". I assume it was a whiteout situation. I don't know what a general midwest snowstorm is but I don't think it's 3-4' in ~18 hours. Perhaps I shouldn't have said useless, at least with a compass they would know what direction they're traveling and they could point towards a road. I think it would have been very difficult at best to place their location on the map without a GPS. One thing, I have no idea when the two leaders left to call for help. The snow stopped Saturday evening, so if the adults waited til Sunday morn to travel to their vehicles, then a map and compass would have been very useful. Thinking about it, they probably did wait til Sunday morning after the weather broke. My comments were thinking of the scouts packing up and heading out Saturday morning as soon as they were able. At that time, it would have been snowing very hard as it would have for most of the rest of the day. SWScouter