Swigs

Hi Hillis, Congratulations on getting your first choice of trek at Philmont. You're going to have a great time. Our crew did Trek 4 in 2005 and enjoyed it thoroughly. Trek 4 stays in the south and central parts of Philmont, however. We went over Trail Peak, Mt. Phillips and the Tooth of Time. Do you participate in the Philmont list server? You may want to consider doing that to help your crew prepare for your trek. If you're not familiar with it, the list server is a lot like this bulletinboard, except it's done via email. Register at the link below, then start asking questions. You'll get lots of answers from all over the country. http://usscouts.org/lists/ Pete

"I also have had the honor to see a boy recieve the Medal of Honor with Crossed Palms. He earned it while attending the National Jamboree. He was one of the Alaskan troop members who had lost their leaders in the tragic accedent. He was awarded it in front of the entire Jamboree. It was indeed a great experence and one day and hope to recieve it one day for saving a life." What did he do to earn the award? (I heard about the accident and know people died. Just curious what it was that the Scout did.)

How fast can you get motivated? Can you go THIS summer? As of a couple weeks ago, Double H still had LOTS of openings for 2006 treks. Yes, that's this summer - 2006. Both our crew and troop are on the Philmont waiting list for 2007, sitting at over 1000. I think we're going to Northern Tier. To the person who mentioned the similarity to the waiting list for Green Bay Packer season tickets, right now, there are over 60,000 names on that list. As soon as your child is born, put their GRANDchildren on the list. They might get them. LOL Pete

You're asking a very good question. So many times, people buying gear for any type outing, let alone Scout camping, do little (if any) research, then buy the least expensive option to fit their need. In most cases, spending a few extra dollars will get the Scout a better piece of equipment (whatever it may be) and it will last longer and perform better over the long term. The hard part is being able to identify what is better for what you need. Thus, I believe, is the reason for your question. When it comes to young Scouts, ages 11-13, you're exactly right. They change boot sizes virtually overnight. You don't want to spend $150 on GoreTex-lined backpacking boots when the most they're going to wear them is beating around on camporees and at Scout camp. They won't be doing any rugged backpacking treks with 40# packs. They won't be traversing serious rock trails, etc. You should be able to find decent over-the-ankle hiking boots between $40 and $75... depending on what you want. Work it out with your Troop to have a hand-me-down chairperson... sell them to the next group of Webelos crossing over. It's highly unlikely they'll be worn out by then. Good luck.

Cotton socks? Wow. To each his own, Eagle74, and if cotton socks work fine for you, great, but you have to admit that, in the long run, polypropylene or Cool-Max liners, combined with a medium weight hiking sock, will do a far better job wicking foot perspiration away from the skin and be more comfortable.

Everyone seems to have covered the ankle support issue. There are, however, those who prefer low-cut hiking 'boots' and do just fine with them. They're the ones that more resemble shoes. Ankle support is important - don't get me wrong. I wear over-the-ankle boots myself. I've owned a pair of Vasque's for years and have never had a blister... ever. With all that said, I believe the most important part of a good hiking boot is the sole. The sole of the boot provides traction, but it also buffers the feet from all the pointy rocks and rough terrain over which you hike... with a 40+ pound pack on your back. You don't get that kind of sole and support on a sneaker or lightweight street shoe. You may be looking to save a few bucks on gear for your trip. After all, 'A Scout is Thrify'. Do what you have to do, but don't skimp too much on hiking boots. You don't need $150 GoreTex-lined boots to enjoy backpacking anywhere, let alone, at Philmont. Find a decent pair of Columbia's or like others have said, a decent pair at Goodwill, etc. Make sure they aren't too heavy (one of your goals anyway) and make sure the sole isn't too worn. Then, make sure you have some good liner socks and medium weight boot socks. You'll be good to go. Good luck. You're going to have a great time! Pete

That's a great idea. I might just offer that idea at our next troop committee meeting.

Cary, When will you be going and what night would you need to stay 30-60 minutes south of Duluth? I just spoke with a friend of mine in the Chippewa Valley Council who told me L.E. Phillips Scout Reservation near Haugen, WI quite often houses crews going through on their way to the Boundary Waters and other areas. Haugen is just north of Rice Lake, WI - 45 minutes to an hour south of Duluth. If I understood him correctly, you'd be staying in one of the lodge buildings that houses their high adventure program. I haven't seen it so I'm not sure what's involved. The price is either free or very close to free. The time of year may, repeat may, make a difference, but my friend suggested calling the Chippewa Valley Council office to ask about availability. 1-800-SCOUT-02 Good luck.

Thanks for the link.

Purcelce, Did you ever decide on a place to stay along the way to the Boundary Waters? Looking at the map, it appears 500 miles will put you in the Eau Claire, WI area. There is a nice Boy Scout camp about an hour or so north of Eau Claire at Haugen (L.E. Phillips Scout Reservation - Chippewa Valley Council). It's a pretty big camp. They might be able to find a spot for you. http://www.bsa-cvc.org/psr.htm (This message has been edited by Swigs)

Yes, I live right in Titletown USA, on the east side of town. Glad I could help. Anytime... Pete

The answers above regarding no bivy sacks allowed at Philmont are correct. Philmont does, however, allow single-person tents in the event of an odd number, or in your case, a female advisor. Your ranger will share ideas on how to cluster your tents each night on the trail. With one female in the crew, that means two solo tents and five two-person tents, unless one of the tents will hold three boys. Pete

Hi Dave, As for camp shoes, our crew found lightweight sneakers to be the best. They're comfortable, certainly lighter than our hiking boots and they just felt good on our feet at the end of a day on the trail. A couple of the guys had Keen sandals with the covered toes. You can find them in lots of outdoor gear stores. We all were envious. The guys who had them loved them and they protected the feet very well while being light to carry in the pack during the day. There are a couple different models, one with a mesh lining and one without. The one without mesh lining has the typical straps that a sandal would have. Both, however, have the protective rubber toes to protect against bumping rocks. I almost made a big mistake before we left. I bought "Aqua Socks" as in-camp shoes for both my son and me. Thanks to information from other Philmont vets, I left them at home and packed comfortable sneakers. With the rocky ground at Philmont, they were clearly the right decision, and the boys all felt the same way. The other thing to consider on in-camp shoes is, what do you wear if you have boot problems? I could have worn the sneakers. Aqua Socks would have been a killer. As for not bringing a sleeping pad to Philmont, I certainly would never go without one. I can sleep anywhere, but at the end of a long day on the trail, tired, and with sore muscles, it's awfully nice to lay down on something soft and comfortable. Want one more thing that guys will die for? Bring a soft gardener's kneeling pad to use as a butt cushion. It weighs nothing and you can strap it on the outside of your pack when you're on the trail. You'll have the most comfortable seat in camp. You'll know what I mean when you get there. Good luck! I see you're in Cross Plains. I'm only 125 miles or so northeast of you. Always nice to help a fellow Badger! Pete (This message has been edited by Swigs)(This message has been edited by Swigs)

"If I had the opportunity to go to Philmont but wasn't allowed my poncho, I might just go somewhere else instead." I hope you're not serious. Trying to go backpacking in the rain while wearing a poncho is akin to walking in the wind with a skirt. (Since I don't wear skirts, let alone in the wind, an assumption is being made here ). Everything you want to stay covered doesn't. Combine body movements, wind and the fact you're wearing a backpack and you'll find yourself with a jumbled mess of plastic trying to cover you and keep you dry. In addition, you get no coverage and protection from the rain on the lower half of your body. With a poncho, it's impossible to have consistent protection simply because you're wearing a non-form-fitting sheet. There's no fighting with your rain protection if you're wearing a rain jacket and pants because the protection is there, and it fits properly. You don't have to worry about wind blowing your poncho all over the place or having the material "scrunch up" leaving areas of your clothing or skin exposed. Rainsuits inconvenient? The only inconvenience I could ever imagine would be for rain pants not to have zippered sides making one take off his or her boots to put them on... and that's a minor thing vs. putting up with a poncho. And thanks for the welcome to the board.(This message has been edited by Swigs)

To keep your pack as light as possible, start by thinking 20#. Twenty pounds for your pack, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, raingear and personal items. If you're close to that (or less) when you get to Philmont, you'll end up having a pack that weighs closer to 35# on the trail than 50#. As an example - my gear: Backpack: 6# Sleeping bag: 3# Sleeping pad: 2# Raingear: 2# Clothing, etc: 6-7# I've rounded off the numbers, but you get the idea. You can cut a bunch of weight without going on a crazy spending spree if you simply shop the deals. I'm a big advocate of buying from a retail store because the expertise of the sales people is invaluable. But, with that said, shopping online can help steer you in the right direction. Many backpacks can weigh upwards of 8 pounds or more. Many weigh 6 pounds or less. Sleeping bags can be both heavy AND bulky. Think 20 degree bags and 3 pounds and you'll be ok. I like a down bag, but there are many synthetic bags that weigh and pack about the same as down. Be wary of BULK. Sleeping pads can get heavy too. Options are going with a 3/4 length pad to save weight AND space in the pack. Other options are going to the light self-inflating pads (like a Thermarest brand). Many of them weigh less than 2#. I carry a full length Thermarest pad and love it. You could say it's my luxury item. Raingear: You must have a rainsuit, no ponchos. There are several on the market that are lightweight and pack small. I like the packable nylon raingear from Cabelas, although I think you can find them elsewhere. Cost is around $60 for jacket and pants. Buying GoreTex will work, but beware of weight and packability, and be prepared to spend some serious cash, probably upwards of $200 unless you find some closeouts someplace. Personal clothing: Wear one pair of nylon zip-offs, carry the other. Same with quick-dry t-shirts. Pack a couple extra pairs of socks, a long sleeve shirt and a fleece and you're good to go for 10 days on the trail. Good luck. Less than a month until you pick your trek. Have you made any decisions yet?