studentscout

Acco40, "In much the same way, if the KKK (or Buddhists & blankets) asked to meet at the school and help wash the windows for free, some would object." I hope it was not your intent to equate Buddhists with the KKK. I didn't know much about the KKK until I arrived here but the spirit (if not the organization) is still strong. No Buddhist I know would embrace such hatred.

Like Old Grey Eagle I have tried to look away. I understand Merlyn's point. And NJCubScouter's (who by the way seems to maintain a great sense of humor, I like that). Maybe I should not say anything but I am an atheist and I am in scouting. In fact BSA embraces my membership because I am pursuing Buddhism. What is the big deal? If BSA lets me be a member, why not an atheist who is not pursuing Buddhism? What is the difference? I am going to continue to look away from the thread on the 1st Amendment, that will actually be easy. I hope no one ever shoots Old Grey Eagle.

"Hello. I'm Codger. I'm not a teenager - far from it." Bummer.

DYB-Mike, it would make my day because a 'codger' is usually an old person, often kind of crotchety as well. Kind of like my grandfather. To me it would be ironic for a teenager to choose a nickname like that. I like irony. Irony makes my day.

BrentAllen, I think what you have done is commendable. Codger, I agree. (it will make my day if you turn out to be a teenager) P.S. OldGreyEagle, I just did that search and O. M. G. I did notice that many (most?) of those threads with Wheeler ended up being "THREAD CLOSED"(This message has been edited by studentscout)

Beavah, thanks, I see your point. I guess I need to continue reading.

I just did some reading about 'Signaling' merit badge and I really like it. Too bad it wasn't around when I was coming through. It reminded me of a really fun, classic old movie, 'Independence Day' in which the International Code was being used to communicate between pockets of human resistance to the alien invasion. Sometimes it is good to know low tech solutions. I might just have to learn that code anyway.

"Yah, what's up with a comment like that, eh? I doubt you've ever met anyone on these forums. I reckon that's an example of bullying, eh?" Is that really what qualifies as bullying in your mind? Really? I just get a strange reaction as I read the old threads. Some personalities have a tone that I have encountered before. Fat Old Guy, Gold Winger, to name a couple. Maybe TrailPounder as well or Bob White. Perhaps 'bully' is too strong. Perhaps 'blow hard' is the better descriptor, does that offend you?

Evmori, to answer your question, here is what you wrote, " How do I feel? Can't wait to prank them back!" To me, you seemed to dismiss this issue and minimize it with that comment. I know from personal experience that stuff like this is degrading and destructive, and potentially criminal. I apologize if I reacted wrongly.

Beavah, I have no idea what you're talking about with the Kudu thing. I agree that the hazing idea is peripheral to the thread topic and I'm sorry I was baited by evmori into a comment. The thread is about senior scouts giving a bottle of urine to a younger scout who was told to get someone to drink it. Great fun by clean-cut American youth, I suppose, NOT, but that's what the thread is about. It isn't about me. It isn't about you and a bunch of old guys yucking it up, either, and your attempt to minimize it with your comparison to Google's 'Topeka' banner, is that really how little concern you have for a prank like this? It's about that young boy and the very similar situation I mentioned in which law enforcement became involved. Mike, thanks. I caution you that scary stories at night and Halloween things can just as easily terrorize some children. I've seen it happen. Your point is well taken. But I am focused on pranks like the one that started this thread, misdirections not withstanding.

I tend to agree with Twocubdad. If you must pull a prank, pull it on someone who can bite back, not on a vulnerable person. I don't like the idea of pranks and I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question. Beavah, you responded by merely stating your view as a victim. That does not address the issue. It merely is evidence that you are a good-humored and willing victim. But I have read some of your posts (you are prolific as well) and I see that you are an attorney. That could explain the side-step to avoid the issue. If one of those pranks had been done to a tenderfoot who collapsed into tears, that would have been a real hoot. I can speak from experience. A prank is pulled on a boy who reacts with despair and the older boys laugh. That is a what Twocubdad is talking about. When those boys repeat that or some other prank, it is no longer a prank but a mean-spirited, destructive predatory act. And it could be precisely the same action as the first one. Not funny. Not constructive. Does NOT build camaraderie except among the predatory older boys at the expense of the vulnerable ones. It is a mean deception meant to hurt and it does. Do I need to ask the question again?(This message has been edited by studentscout)

Excuse me, what does UP mean?

Over the collar - collar not turned in. That's what this troop does. But they created their own neckerchiefs, the official ones aren't big enough to do much for first aid and other things if it's being put on an adult. So they made theirs larger. They look fine and work a lot better.

OldGreyEagle, I also was bullied a lot growing up, by almost everyone. I was pretty much the oddball until college. Then I realized that there were plenty of others like me. The bullies were just a bunch of losers who probably knew they were never going anywhere in life. As I read through the old threads, I sense that some of the personalities in these forums might have been bullies at one time. Maybe even now. I have been reading about this suicide and related incidents. I never contemplated suicide but I understand the emotional weight that is borne..it can have a lifelong effect. Scouting should not be a place that cultivates or where boys suffer bullying.

Eamonn, I read through some of your posts (you are very prolific) and I think you are a nice guy and will be a wonderful grandfather (you need to quit smoking though). However, I can only say this directly: you write bad poetry, none of your stuff has either rhyme or meter.

Evmori, by your warped thought process, Lent could be considered hazing. I agree with OldGreyEagle. Again, I would like for someone to explain how deception is a positive component of scouting.

I share the sentiment that a prank like this is terribly wrong. As I noted earlier, in this state if a parent decided to make the call, a sheriff might even view it as a felony. And I might agree with him, thinking back to pranks that I suffered from older boys. Evmori, my reaction was shame and anger and an impulse to quit scouting. It still makes me feel that way when I remember. And if I ever am asked about the 'character' of the people who did those things, I will be less able to say anything positive about it. Pranks and practical jokes all share a common characteristic: they all involve a deception. If anyone can educate me as to the positive value of deception as part of scouting, I'd like to learn it.

I've been on campouts with gay leaders. I never really thought much about it one way or the other. The parents of the other boys knew the leader was gay, at least the boys did. No one seemed to care...it just wasn't important.

This is in the news lately around here: http://www.thestate.com/2010/03/22/1212352/sc-high-school-students-accused.html These students pulled a similar prank and are about to become felons. "Six South Carolina juveniles face charges after authorities say they contaminated a 15-year-old classmate's drink with saliva, urine and pubic hair. The Greenville County Sheriff's Office released a statement on Monday saying the four boys and two girls face a felony charge of malicious tampering of a food item in connection with the incident on March 18. All six are 15 years old and are students at Blue Ridge High School."

Hello again, I fear I was the cause of the website crash. If so I apologize. Does this happen often?

I'm new to the forums and boy it took a while to get registered between my browser crashing and the internet rejecting pages. Is this common for this website or is it my connection? I've read some of the posts here over the last couple of years and it seems much more civilized than the usual blogs so I think I like it. Oh yeah, I'm an Eagle and am at college, home is the Pacific NW. I guess I'll be here for a few years so I will occasionally help with a local troop, assuming I have time from study.