stlscouter

wasn't there a banned skit about $15,000 for a pound of SM brains(you may substitute Christian, Gay, Lawyer, Accordioan Player, Tuba Player, Bagpipe Player, atheist etc)because it took so many SM's (ETC) to make a pound? Indiana Jones was a palentoligist etc and was a Boy Scout....

reminder-as we do the hug thing make sure your back pocket flap is snapped-trust butt verify

jkhny-while I don't disagree with everything you have written I would submit that what you have said could be said about almost any community non-profit organization-for example your local school districtthe non-transparency-some over paid people at the top- inflated test scores-people being promoted when they should be dismissed etc. I don't think these shortfalls are unique to the BSA. I find myself agreeing more with Eamonn.

fuzzy- well said-is it time for a group hug yet?

its just like a majic act-slight of hand and a diversion -when the post was about the peaceable assembly clause; and reading it without a comma and then call assembly protest we quickly focus in on the accordian reference and the lawyers-so just post on the thread topic-Aannoying, rude, unscoutlike attack on lawyers- whose ox is being gored now and see how intolerant we can become. Some of the posters here have really diehard views on gays, God, Girls, government and some and/or criticize the BSA relentlessly and have the esteemed status of Senior Forum Member-pardon the rest of us who can't gain membership in your "club".

Hey KUDU! thanks-ain't the internet grand! Even better, some positive scout stories.

Merlyn-again I said nothing about protesting anything-peaceably assembly does not necessarily mean protesting. Again watch the commas. Asking for permission to hold an event of any size (would necessaryily) cause governmnt agencies to act so that safety, health etc concerns would be met. The idea that The BSA should not be provided that government accomodation lacks in that where else can the experience of setting up a "city" with all of its needed services be had. Training FEMA, National Guard, Army Reserve etc should be, IMHO, continually looking for these kind of venues given the preparedness levels that hve been displayed in NY on 9/11, name a hurricane etc. Without sounding whatever do we then say that Boy Scouts or those who may agree with them should not benefit during the real thing? Can you or NJ provide a senario that provides this kind of training anywhere and/or provide it for less?(This message has been edited by stlscouter)

So then the task at hand becomes one of opening the can of spaghettios and pouring them onto the table, arrange them by size, sauce coverage and count them and once this is completed put them back in the can in their original place. Am I close?

NJ- so you choose to ignor the proposition because you deemed it satire but my query was and is legitimate. For you to bold print in response and leave out the all important comma means you misread the amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion , or prohibiting the free execise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech , or of the press , or the right of the people peaceably to assemble , and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievences. Why can't the BSA elect to do their business under the section peaceable assembly rather than fighting the religion/private/discrimination banner?(This message has been edited by stlscouter)

WOW -25-40hour weeks or 50-20 hours weeks or 3 hours per day x 365 as a volunter. Fantastic! My congratulations you are indeed a hero. Thank you on behalf of the youth you serve. these weren't lawyer jokes they were accordion player jokes and the ACLU was not even mentioned

Merlyn- the reasoning used in the case you sight shows that religious institutions were included in the thought process and that they benefited incidently but that non-sectarian also benefit-again the laws were passed but the motivation in the mind of the legislators/judges shows religion was indeed present and part and parcel of thought process. The idea that any group should not be taxed or be tax exempt shows that there is a conscious effort to recognize a diffence in the role of government and religion. And that taxes could be used as a weapon against people exercising an enumerated right and practice thereof. I guess I still would maintain the Law of the Land in it's 1st amendment is borne out of a religious context.

I can't picture a million accordions playing as peacable-but the sight of a million lawyers running to the Supreme Court screaming and holding their ears may well be worth the effort of trying to gather such a group. If a group of whales is called a pod and a group of turtles is called a bale and a bunch of geese is called a gaggle what does one call a group of lawyers bent on filing a class action suit representing one person against a group gathering a accordion deluxe?

Any number of colleges/universities have Alpha Phi Omega -the Scouting Fraternity- is there for college age folks and of course they can involve themselves in a local troop but I would like to see successful 18-21 yr olds be put out front as the exemples we needs for youth. To be that they cay validate the efforts of younger scouts by being closer to their age. We use community leaders and over 21 folks on our Eagle Board but a few 18-21's form the local High Schools, I think, would benefit the program. After all, we use these men ias staff in our camps and even allow them to be area directos, commissioners etc.

I said nothing about protest marches-Ask the TV president Martin S. no, you don't climb barbed wire fences after being told not to or you individually suffer the consequence of criminal prossecution. Or Ask Jimmie about his daughter and the right to protest. Even rank/status can't keep you from the law. No one is above the law but exercising your rights under the law/constitution is permitted. I said 1st amendment right of a group to PEACEABLY assemble and i doubt seriously that the BSA would organize an event that is not peaceable in nature.

even off topic-doesn't the fact that religious instutions (notwithastanding the "wall of separation")are given tax exemptions show a specific set of laws that are borne of religion?(This message has been edited by stlscouter)

Hey NJ-why not satire or even sarcasm-if the argument in other threads is the freedom or religion(or not, public or private, free association) and the free exercise thereof can be seperated then the right to assemble followed by a coma and the the right to petition are on the table also. A government property is government property-whether it is a military base or the Lincoln Memorial. The idea that a different standard would be applied to the BSA than to the Nation of Islam or NOW or a Baptist Minister leaves motives suspect.

So if the BSA continues to encouter a few, yet loud objectors to the private/religious component of the BSA why don't we just insist on our other 1st amendment right to peaceably assemble? The million man march cost the government millions of dollars for logistics and that group clearly benefited for government support and was also put on by a clearly religious group. Or the MLK gathering in 1964 "I Have A Dream" debut he was a preacher right? How about the ERA demonstrations during the 70's-80's some may have been peaceful. Or the pro-abortion or pro-life rallies minister's participated in all of these events. All benefited for the logistical support of the government-most held without having to pay a dime. Maybe we should not let the Merlyns or the ACLU define the language this time and jusyt demand our 1st amendment rights that we be allowed to meet peaceably for 10 days and do it Fort A.P. Hill inn 2010. What do ya think?

reading some of the posts it is hard to believe which sperm won the race and was able make it to quickening stage. Ah yes-human status at conception-what a concept. In the theatre of your mind imagine your mother deciding you were nothing but a glob and...bye bye. Ah but you made it, milions did not.

then of course, it would prove conculsively, that the law is an ass? I would submit that the millions of words and thousands of pages contained in the law books therefore cannot stand in the face of the 1500 pages contained in an ordinary BIBLE, whose moral imperatives, lessons directions and commandments man has tried and failed to improve on.(This message has been edited by stlscouter)

Tre- Interesting post -notice (i did a google or two) all of these folks are allowed to be "different" and are assigned (recogized) by their society a role or niche they are allowed to fill-a recgonizable role. I can only imagine what the outcry in this society would be if the "different" people were assigned such a specific recognizable role.

Mickey Mouse Club- Annette Funicello- in the Spin amd Marty series

The current "secular' standard for lwas comes stems from the aculturalization WE the people in concert that stems from a moral/belief not the result of one human's rational thought process. Public law including those against murder, stealing, honoring people (slander, libel) etc also have a BIBLICAL/religious stem. Whether that is Christianity or some other belief system. No one person or group of people operated in a vaccuum to set these guidelines and to deny that is unreasonable. The if/then proposition then is if the men who wrote the DI and the Cons. ascribed thier founding guidelines and remediation of unforeseen problems to self-evident rights granted by the creator then where do atheists get their rights from? For if there is no creator for them there can be no rights unless they take them or usurp power by substituting "Nogod" as the creator.(This message has been edited by stlscouter) sorry we were both posting at the same tim \So name the one thing that ALL of us can agree on-(the tower of Babel notwithstanding) water is wet?(This message has been edited by stlscouter)

Bob as usual you're on target and your statement rings true. thanks

I always find it perplexing when people who disavow any existence of God find time to find fault with idea that self-evident rights granted by the creator. And while the 1st amendent is very clear when it says CONGRESS shall make no law...or interfere with the free exercise thereof. I realize JUDGES have seen fit to ignor and bastardize what that amendment says. However, if WE have the right to that free speech, I am allowed to speak in the town square, the national park or the houses of congress and those things WE speak about can be about religion or anything else. When government builds a town square, a national park or the houses of congress they are merely providing that forum where WE can speak. I am not a royal we but am a WE the people.... When Judges in colusion with the ACLU side with folks to deny access to a WE owned space based on a percieved slight or indignation of a limited group because they don't wish to apply a WE's standards to themselves in the name of others civil rights while denying WE's they go too far. The idea some don't seem to like is the idea of tax money goes to something they know nothing about because for them it does not exist remains perplexing. And the further idea that a person in and of himself can possibly know more than the sum total of the human race from it's beginnings and throw the concept of immorality because "I don't accept your definition" is ludicrous. I kow this will get a response for at least one-so to him I'll go straight to the playground-"I know you are but what am I?"

Tuba playing- Forgive me but I must relate this TRUE story-30 years ago I was teaching in a small midwestern town and the band teacher came screaming into the office. It seems that someone had had the adacity to deficate into one of his tubas. We never found out who. At the band director's retirement dinner this subject was the topic of his roasters. Seems it could not be determined wheather the act was 1.) an act of defiance 2.) a comment on his teaching/directing 3.)the deficators opinion of tubas/tuba music or 4.) a cry to pronouce the oompa sound correctly as poop-ah. I think I may have, after all these years found the perp! Too bad the said band director died 15 years ago without ever finding out the TRUTH.