Thanks for the replys. Light and humorous is always the case. We have begun canoe camping because we can, I'm overweight and my knees reflect that choice. We live near a LOT of water and our first saltwater trip reflected our learning curve. We did fine, had a really great time and all of us realized we could, of course, improve our packing (everything in garbage bags, lots of garbage bags). Beginning to look toward improvement is a mind set that leads to a teaching opportunity. If we can get our trip together this Fall, we can float our local lovely river but we need to have our acts together. . We can think about how we camp and how we pack our canoes AND how we keep our campsite. Again this is more about attitude because so many of their skills are already in place. (I'm really proud to be around these young men!) Camp is a place to practice many things, mental and physical. still learning