Starfish2

Open Letter to all who have followed this string for the past 3 days.... I promised I would post nothing further,but again,i keeping with the very basic premises of the BSA,I feel I owe it to the folks who continued to write...and finally,finally provided some very specific.very concrete suggestion...all of which I have-and will continue to take heed. I have learned much in the past few months,and to the writer who bashed me originally for being within the organization for 14 years but knowing so little...I can honestly say,I now know far,far more,I've gained insight and knowledge in the BSA world,but also basic human behavior.Most of it was painful,and has come at a high price,but in the end, I think I one day this will all be a mere shadow of a memory for all involved-but me.I won't necessarily remember each and every painful detail,but I know this.I will remember and walk away having learned a very valuable lesson...more than one actually,and I also think that in some strange way,I just may be a better person for it all. I had no ideea that the BSA Council had such relationships,that the inner workers of a Troop,the CO,the Committee...all of the groups involved,had the types of relationships they did...not a clue.I really thought everyone worked together,and would,for the greater good of a boy,.a family,their Leaders, the Troop,and overall,the BSA Organization.I never knew it was so..."politically complex"(I'm trying to be nice!).I do know now.Too little too late.I turned to this website,I was hoping I'd get some kindhearted people,maybe experienced in the petty actions that go on in the Troops...and how best to deal with them.Hindsight is 20/20..right?I cannot go back,would that I could.I CAN go forward though...and I no doubt will-although a break and some time away might be a very good idea to all who suggested it.(Remember when I wrote one writer....SW are really people too!We are human,we really can and do have issues too!). I've actually learned even more...I've learned proper web site etiquette, I've learned that people can and will act and behave in ways I may not want them to-even if I request it(as I wrote in my second posting..."Please stop reading if you don't want to be involved and help,I don't want bashing I need advice"...people will continue to remain involved and behave poorly whether I request the do so or not...its human nature and their choice...and yes,people will do whatever they decide THEY want to do,not what I want them to do. And finally,probably the greatest lesson...I learned that no matter what I feel or believe,I cannot control others...in fact,I have no control over anyone but myself..including my husband, and 11 year old son.Each of us is responsible for everything we do,everything we say,everything we write...every part of our own lives are within our control,and no one else's, and as such, are therefore responsible for our own selves as well.I am responsible for all I have done, all I have said, all I intended(right or wrong).That's the bottom line,and there is "no other avenue or way".It's very clear cut(although the road to reaching that point,that place in time where you can stand atop a mountain,and see everything for mile after mile...only then can you say..."Ah, I see!" I get it now.I have answers.Its not the way I would ever have preferred to get those answers, but I think I have a pretty clear picture,now,of what can be done, what cant....and most importantly, what need to be done. And, with the wonderful words and expressions of kindness shown me,for people I am so grateful to..these are the people who are here for our sons.These are the folks who are responsible for producing the Eagles of tomorrow. Thank you all once again,on behalf of each member of my family,for your guidance,suggestions and confidence.Its because of you...ALL of you(even the ones who may have been well intentioned but wrote words that were harsh (name calling,questioning authenticity,credentials,suggesting professional help,refusing to answer unless aq posting was written in a certain format....,these were words tough to read when one is seeking answers. Your words affect people, your words have power-to build up or to tear down. Perhaps you didn't know you could have the impact you did. Maybe you...the other writers/posters...maybe each of you,some of you,few of you...or one of you, will walk away from this posting, and say..."I didn't realize that my actions were the way they were..maybe in the future,I'll try it a different way".I don't know.I don't want to be accused yet again of babbling(I know that I am writing a long post,or taking up even more of anyone's precious time,each word Ive written was done with careful thought, and the simple desire to ensure to each and every individual out there,knows that their comments have impacted another-good or bad, right,wrong,maybe even indifferent.).I realize it,I see it,but you don't have to read it if you don't want too...that is your choice..I am not forcing you,and you know as well as I do,I can't make you read my words,understand or take heed,no matter how hard,or how much I wish I could).Nonetheless...each writer has had an impact-not just on me,but on everyone else here,everyone who read each posting...AND everyone who may. come back to this entry a month ,year or decade from now...this is the internet,and this is 2012..these words don't disappear,no matter how much we may wish they would. If everyone in life would just take a second...and be even a little nicer to one another, too...it really is a very hard and difficult world we all live in right now.No one knows for sure what their neighbor is enduring....and last time I heard,there were an awful lot of problems going on in our country.I happen to know,firsthand, that problems in this world reach far beyond the boundaries of USA as well(I sit here,typing away,t' holding a handwritten letter from an 18 yr old Eagle Scout,my own son,not knowing if his next plane trip will lead him to life in Africa,Afghanistan... where?). BSA issues,SM vs ASL problems, heck..what about the BIG PICTURE? I mentioned the book, "Everything I need to know,I learned in Kindergarten".If we don't get it now...if most of us don't understand,and at least take the time to try...I am afraid we likely never will.I'll never believe it's too late for change-because to do so would be giving up,and I am not now nor will ever be a "quitter".Food for thought.Am I babbling?Only you can judge that for yourself.I'd hope to someone,anyone...that maybe my words might actually make some sense,although I am certain not everyone will see them that way.It's ok though, because I am doing what needs to be done. I am writing now, I am choosing to do this,at my time and expense-you all can decide for yourselves if you want to invest any of your time in reading what I have written.Your decision and choice...I cant make anyone do anything...remember?.If you are in a place yourself, and are here for whatever reason...step back before you share ideas.Think before your speak....and ask yourself questions.Is this really what I should be doing,not just as a person on this website,or as a Scouter,but as a Human being with a heart that beats...lungs that work,a body intact.You never know the full scale and capacity of anyone's angst in life-even if you are privileged enough to have them share it with you. No one in this world is entitled to ANYTHING...this is the mindset of the majority of this world,and in the end...its incorrect.We are not entitled to ANYTHING,not anything.Each day you live and breathe...each one,is a gift,and a gift can be taken away, gone in a second without a moment's warning. Know this,please.Every single one of you...has made a difference.You matter. For this,I want to say,one last time ALL OF YOU(and yes,from the bottom of my heart), ...THANK YOU. Starfish2

P.S.Years ago, when I was in college,a Sociology teacher I had ordered the class to read a book.It was called, "Everything I needed to Know,I Learned in Kindergarten".While it sure as heck wont help much with computers,literacy in writing,caps or run on sentences...it might just remind us all,of what we are here to do,and how to do it. Blessings to all,and thanks for this opportunity.I promise not to trouble you folks every again.Thank you for your willingness.. Starfish2

Dear friends... If I had only known...PLEASE PEOLE,NO MORE FIGHTING..PLEASE.NO MORE NAME CALLING,NASTINESS,CRUEL WORDS..Its not worth it-and neither am I or my issue.I never meant or intended my issue to draw such anger,and fro so many people.Its not worth it,nothing is.Please ,please,I am asking that you all stop...please,I am responsible for WW3...dont do this to one another..it just isnt worth it.Nothing in life is worth getting into internet feuds,name calling, shouting, criticizing,,ect,etc. To the ONE brave soul who had the courageto step forward on my behalf..Sir,I will forevr be in your debt.You did what I couldnt do.I tried though...I wriote individually to each person who posted,I apologized last night.I spent HOURS re-writing because people called me names,they hurt me further questioning my degree,my service within the BSA,they all demanded I rewrite everything the "correct way"...no caps,no long run on paragraphs,etc,etc,.I did everything that was asked of me...and then some.I even went so far as to apologize..Heck folks,didnt anyone read,didnt anyone stop and see that I wrote..."READ NO FURTHER IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO"? I answered every individual question,I clarified,I explained I went above and beyond..as I always do....ALWAYS(Anniepoo,please,please dont try to squirm out of a situation you are stuck in now.It isnt my words that hung you biut your own-heck,you were the #1 person who made me rewrite that entire saga...because I had caps on,and wrote too long,etc etc.To try to slither out of what YOU SAID,by justifying it now...,when called on the carpet..."But she needed the feedback"?? You know I need the feedback-"So where is it?You said it yourself..I needed the feedback...I did all you asked last night and more,yet you criticzed each word again today.You intended and chose your words carefully,you seemed pretty intellegent..but the judgement..well....its ok.,you felt the need to continue,,despit all I have been through,advivce begged formyou felt you knew better what I needed...so you focus on slamming me,embarrasing me furtyher,asking me to rewrote over and over. Its true,but after all I have been through with each of you(not to even mention the BSA Organization!I would simply ask ONE thing of all of you.Please dont insult the many wise folks gathered here because I think most are smarter than me,and will see through you anyway.(after all ANnie,If I can see it..Im pretty darn certain...everyone else can too).For all who chose to criticize,blame my writing,call me names again("troll",question whether I really am a REAL LIVE Social Worker)...to everyone who has the eyes to see things I dont have,the ears to hear what I dont know what to listyen for,and the knowleage to do what needs to be done...I envy you..becauise even after ALL of ghis..I still remain in the dark.Prett sad in my opinion-especially since I would nEVER have believed it,not a BSA website.I can see and accept it from the smal group I am curently living with here...but all of you folks...no way.You are far better than this...you are.Dont call each new person-or anyone else for hat matter,names-its the whole point and reaso I wrote in!Dont criticize...maybe try to put yourself in that new poster's shoes for even 2 minutes,and try,please try..to have a compassionate and kind heart,and dont hurt one another..If there is one thing I learned,all these years in Scouting...it is to help people.That is what I always tried to do,always,no matter what.What makes this website any different?It shouldnt be.Please stop the cruelty,when some one says.."I need help.."please dont question them or make them feel embarrassed further.If they could summon up the courage to ask for help,and you choose o be here..then dont you think you can give them a few minutes...a few minutes of kindness as you respond?It might really make a difference.I needed feedback, and I asked the questions,.I rewrote everything at the request of most of you,but still,no answers.Nothing at all that I can even hope for...Its not supposed to be like this,if I know THAT much after spending 2 days here...I guarantee you all do too. Be nice to each other,it will take you alot further in this world than to the contrary.Its too late for me,but not others.Than you for affording me the time on our website but for those who decided that I am not worthy to ask a few questions...so you decided again to call me names...well,you need not worry,I wont bother any of you again as I wont be returning to a website where I am called names,criticized and verbally abused yet again.Than you for this opportunity,and for the one person who actually did care enough...God bless you!

Dear friends... If I had only known...PLEASE PEOLE,NO MORE FIGHTING..PLEASE.NO MORE NAME CALLING,NASTINESS,CRUEL WORDS..Its not worth it-and neither am I or my issue.I never meant or intended my issue to draw such anger,and fro so many people.Its not worth it,nothing is.Please ,please,I am asking that you all stop...please,I am responsible for WW3...dont do this to one another..it just isnt worth it.Nothing in life is worth getting into internet feuds,name calling, shouting, criticizing,,ect,etc. To the ONE brave soul who had the courageto step forward on my behalf..Sir,I will forevr be in your debt.You did what I couldnt do.I tried though...I wriote individually to each person who posted,I apologized last night.I spent HOURS re-writing because people called me names,they hurt me further questioning my degree,my service within the BSA,they all demanded I rewrite everything the "correct way"...no caps,no long run on paragraphs,etc,etc,.I did everything that was asked of me...and then some.I even went so far as to apologize..Heck folks,didnt anyone read,didnt anyone stop and see that I wrote..."READ NO FURTHER IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO"? I answered every individual question,I clarified,I explained I went above and beyond..as I always do....ALWAYS(Anniepoo,please,please dont try to squirm out of a situation you are stuck in now.It isnt my words that hung you biut your own-heck,you were the #1 person who made me rewrite that entire saga...because I had caps on,and wrote too long,etc etc.To try to slither out of what YOU SAID,by justifying it now...,when called on the carpet..."But she needed the feedback"?? You know I need the feedback-"So where is it?You said it yourself..I needed the feedback...I did all you asked last night and more,yet you criticzed each word again today.You intended and chose your words carefully,you seemed pretty intellegent..but the judgement..well....its ok.,you felt the need to continue,,despit all I have been through,advivce begged formyou felt you knew better what I needed...so you focus on slamming me,embarrasing me furtyher,asking me to rewrote over and over. Its true,but after all I have been through with each of you(not to even mention the BSA Organization!I would simply ask ONE thing of all of you.Please dont insult the many wise folks gathered here because I think most are smarter than me,and will see through you anyway.(after all ANnie,If I can see it..Im pretty darn certain...everyone else can too).For all who chose to criticize,blame my writing,call me names again("troll",question whether I really am a REAL LIVE Social Worker)...to everyone who has the eyes to see things I dont have,the ears to hear what I dont know what to listyen for,and the knowleage to do what needs to be done...I envy you..becauise even after ALL of ghis..I still remain in the dark.Prett sad in my opinion-especially since I would nEVER have believed it,not a BSA website.I can see and accept it from the smal group I am curently living with here...but all of you folks...no way.You are far better than this...you are.Dont call each new person-or anyone else for hat matter,names-its the whole point and reaso I wrote in!Dont criticize...maybe try to put yourself in that new poster's shoes for even 2 minutes,and try,please try..to have a compassionate and kind heart,and dont hurt one another..If there is one thing I learned,all these years in Scouting...it is to help people.That is what I always tried to do,always,no matter what.What makes this website any different?It shouldnt be.Please stop the cruelty,when some one says.."I need help.."please dont question them or make them feel embarrassed further.If they could summon up the courage to ask for help,and you choose o be here..then dont you think you can give them a few minutes...a few minutes of kindness as you respond?It might really make a difference.I needed feedback, and I asked the questions,.I rewrote everything at the request of most of you,but still,no answers.Nothing at all that I can even hope for...Its not supposed to be like this,if I know THAT much after spending 2 days here...I guarantee you all do too. Be nice to each other,it will take you alot further in this world than to the contrary.Its too late for me,but not others.Than you for affording me the time on our website but for those who decided that I am not worthy to ask a few questions...so you decided again to call me names...well,you need not worry,I wont bother any of you again as I wont be returning to a website where I am called names,criticized and verbally abused yet again.Than you for this opportunity,and for the one person who actually did care enough...God bless you!

To each of the well meaning(and perhaps some not so well meaning)souls,I am the author who initiated the post,above.In less than 24 hours since locating this site,and the incredible responses I have since obtained,I am grateful to those who may be trying to help,however,in order to do so,I am writing to #1.Clarify the questions/misconceptions/confusion, #2 To request in another manner,what I should have initially. I am writing this next sentence as my words of warning.If you chose to read beyond this point,you are making a choice.I will tell you,I am involved in a very long,very complex,very upsetting situation within the BSA organization.I am brand new to this site, and have a long history within the BSA world,primarily at the Cub Level,but some at the Scout Level.I have little computer knowledge but not an enormous amount.I am presenting this information here to the best of my ability,information I am struggling with and am seeking guidance and direction.I need help but I have no idea who can help me.I initially had alternate hopes,that somehow events would cease to occur,however,the oast week has only proved to excell situations.I want to follow sound advise,and I will...however,is the advise being given to me,really and truly the best way...are there alternatives?And most importantly...is there anythng at the BOY SCOUT LEVEL(sorry,not screaming just emphasizing)that can be done,to address the situation and somehow miraculously reinstate my husband and I to our positions and previous roles.If there is a chain of command within the BSA...Id be greatful to know of it,nd also,if there is a dispute resolution process and/or complaint filing procedure.These are my specific questions.If you read on,I am appreciative,but please,I have been tormented enough not just with the situation but in the past day since my previous posting regarding the issue Im involved in.Having said this, either stop reading now,or please do not call me names,threaten me,or do anything more to me to tear me down.I am asking for help,if you can give it,from the bottom if my heart,I truly will be ever greatful.If not...just no more nasty comments...please.I dont deserve it.If this isnt the corrrect forum,again,read no furtehr,redirect me,but I really am begging only for positive solutions.I cant take much more bashing, and I dont deserve it.Yes,I likely will read it,because I am desperate to learn frm this,and if I can make a change that will affectthe gretare good,long term(which inclusdes my 11 yr old...something he desperately wants...not me.him,and I do nt want to take this away from him until he says "Ive had enough too".I havent hade enough,I can hang in there,I will,but only if there is a reason to.If it will help someone else even,I'd do it.But not if Im going to pay a dearer price than I already have,not me and not my husband....SO.HERE you have the additional information and clarification many have requested.... I am a 48 year old female,mother to 3 children,2 sons, 1 daughter.I joined the BSA in 1999 after being recruited, and assumed the "official"title of TSL in 9/2000.The Pack at the time had 6 leaders.(It was a "defunct" Pack,and 2 gentleman decided to "revive" the Pack,under the same numbers it'd had up until about 20 years before).Before its 'lapse',it was one of the oldest Packs within the BSA,as I understand it.4 women agreed to hold positions,and the 6 of us dedicated leaders-only 1 gentleman having had any previous scouting history(He achieved ES,and decided to rebuild the Troop,as CM).It was with this gentleman and another male friend of his that we came together and initiated the Pack.Other than this 1 man,no other leader had any prior knowledge,instruction or teachings,no experience at all within the BSA. Together we built that Pack.It became a family,and for 6 yrs,it was extremely successful.I remain ever grateful for having had that experience,and see it as perhaps 6 of the best years of my life.We learned together,we struggled together, we laughed together and as corney as Im sure I will be accused of(or referred to as sharing/spreading 'drama'),we cried together.Yes..we cried together-including the 2 men.I have never had a greater respect for any group of people than I still have today,for each of the 5 individuals I served with,the 5 folks (I had the absolute honor of working with side by side with.Each Leader worked with another,we blended,we meshed,if a need was there...it wasn't...because it was filled before it became an issue.These folks worked with me while I was pregnant with my 2 younger children,and in fact would take turns holding babies during large Pack Meetings, when my responsibilities were temporarily redirected from my babies to my older son and my den.I graduated 11 Scouts after they all completed Webelo II ranks..all earned AOL,each bridged together and today,some 14 yrs later,all but 2 remain "friends".I am sure I can speak on behalf of any one of them when I say that we were indeed a family.So,this was my intro to Scouting,and why I felt as I did,and allowed things I probably should not have done.I was constantly recalling the other group I'd worked with(although make no mistake,never,not ever did I say a word to anyone,comparing the 2 very different experiences.I said nothing,but I did always feel a strong commitment to that Pack,the Pack I along with those 5 others,saw grow and become an incredibly strong,amazing BSA Unit.I don't recall ever hearing another Scouting individual ever express a devotion for their group to the extent I felt,and always will feel,to that original group.It was loyalty,compassion,caring,nurturing,laughter....and everything that I think,or thought,a BSA Pack should be. I moved up as Leader of each Den as my son did.It made sense.When my son became a Webelo,the experienced CM, was ready to "move on up" to Boy Scouts with his own son.I agreed to assume the role of CM.What was supposed to be a 1yr term,became 2,as no other parent would agree to step up.I made it understood I would do so only 1 additional yr.If no one agreed,then it was their sons who would pay the price.The pack would cease to continue.s the end of my term approached,1 kind-hearted father(Mr. W.) with minimal experience in BS finally agreed.He was ill prepared, and had no support.I did what I could to assist,however,the parents who remained rallied around 1 outspoken man. Mr.S. Mr. S, a very charismatic individual did possess certain strengths,and in fact I had attempted to recruit him as CM,due to his ability to stand in front of a large group,and actually get folks to listen.He is a gifted Public Speaker,however,he has a variety of motives and issues.After a yr, Mr. W.met with BSA officials,Charter Reps,myself and others...and was given enormous support.It was because of the outpouring of support that he remained in office 1 years,however,after being treated so poorly by so many...he did in fact reign...and left in tears.He and his wife tried so hard,and were completely torn down.Both he and his wife decided to remove their young son from the BS-never to return. I spent 1 yr in a double duty capacity.(Feb 2004, I completed the paperwork for my last Charter, as CM, and also ASM.).I returned to the CS Pack when my middle son turned 6 as(once again, TL to my 6 yr old,and 3 other boys;eventually,3 more boys would joiun our den).I did return to that Pack,knowingly,that Mr S had become CM.While I was certainly aware of his behaviors and personality,I never served "under his direction".Until then.I ran the Den as I did my first son's den, however, while Mr. S was now CM,I had little 1"1 exposure and contact with him...until his own son transferred into my den).from that day on,CM decided to attend each and every Den Meeting with his son,and instead of remaining in either a CM or Parent role,slowly,week by week,he began to "take over"my den.I became ill,and was hospitalized for 2 weeks.Upon my return to my location at the regularly scheduled time...I entered the room to discover Mr S leading the Den.he had a new Assistant, the agenda was set,he had changed the time,contacted all parents...and in that 3rd yr,Mr S became both DL and CM.Done deal,no communication. I had a shouting man approach me at a Parade! I was there wearing my class A...because other DE told me and my husband to march wearing our class A's..under the BSA Troop.So the BSA DE's are telling us to do things a certain way,we comply...and as a result,we are then further seen as causing even more issues.When we try to explain-we are not permitted to speak.I tried to speak as I was being yelled at,and in doing so,Mr S Assistant..and I am going to be extremely careful and precise in what occurred....my version yes,but please...read my words before changing them or accusing me of making a false claim...."As Mr. S, was shouting at me,in the presence of other boys and leaders, I attempted to say..'this isn't the time or place'...with that,my right forearm was grabbed by the ASM, and I was pulled across the street-maybe 15 - 20 feet,relocating me to the other side of the road.I was pulled,and a mark was left on my forearm,visible the next day."This is "my version"Does this really an truly constitute an assault?Is there no other option but to file a police report for assault?My gut,my training as a SW...under normal circumstances,I would have liked to sit down and address the actions....with someone from the BSA,to discuss all outstanding issues that led up to it,and resolved it....I wasn't held at gunpoint,my life was not threatened...however...I was embarrassed,humiliated,I felt completely wronged,and not just my feelings were hurt,but I don't really believe that it is appropriate or acceptable for any individual,especially within the BSA,especially a man on a woman,,,I just don't think its ok to put ones hand on another person,and physically remove them from where they are standing-unless their life is at risk(if I were about t be hit by a car).I just do not believe that this is an acceptable practice and I will always believe that the BSA holds some responsibility in ensuring the safety of its Leaders,as well as proper training,to ensure that this type of action doesn't happen again...!Plain and simple.It should not have happened,but I did,and as a result,because I dared to speak up,I have since been told I am no longer even permitted to attend any functions or activities unless I am directly supervising my son as a "Parent",and my presence is 'necessary".Did I sign a police complaint-no.I reported it to the Sr DE(the same DE who told me to show up in Class A and March!),and he covered his eyes.On Friday,I am told..."Even though you have had no Leadership Application on file and have not been named in a charter since 2004 with the BSA,(I did provide Council with current YP certificates for both myself and husband back in early May)Go ahead, show up in class A,march with your family as you always have,its the last time with your Eagle,(my oldest was t deployed 2 days later with the Marines)go out and enjoy the day with the Troop,and do what you have done x13 years of previous parades" And so my husband and I both did.Monday arrives, post parade incident,I report 9am to the BSA office to the same DE the incident and the mark on my arm,and I was told...."You have not had any paperwork filed since 2004,so you are a private citizen..I cant advise you what to do."Yes,I did ask this Sr DE how to file a complaint,and I asked who would represent the BSA...above this Sr DE.I asked for the name,title and contact information as well as the process in which to file a "concern"(that was the word I used).I absolutely positively told this Sr DE that I was verbally confronted,with Mr S shouting at me in front of the boys and Leaders, inthat Mr S was enraged we showed up in Class A and did march with the Troop, and that his actions that his initiation of what I believed was an inappropriate conversation resulted in my being grabbed,pulled across the street,and his full line of vision, while he stood back, allowing another ASL to perform this action,and that after being removed,the 2 men then joined each other,side by side,jabbed one another in the ribs and had a huge belly laugh...SM="too many hens in the hen house"...ASM="you don't discuss that stuff here...its inappropriate,she had no right and I stopped her"(Again...please folks...I did not initiate the conversation!) . Last few facts...unfortunate,but actually the key.Prior to Mr S becoming SM...for 2 yrs,my honored CM served with his son.He retired,and my cousin,a gentleman with many,many years of scout history within his family,became SM,and served a decade.he retired in June 2011.I served under his role,a year+ in Scouts as ASL.he has been myy cousin for 48 yrs,our relationship is blood family.My son requested that this SM, as well as his previous CM(the guy we loved and worked with the 1st 6 yrs),"organize and run"his Court of Honor, held on 1-15-12.This was 100% his decision(and quite frankly...at 18..he wasn't listening to anything mom told him to do.Period.Mom could not have affected any decision this Eagle Scout/Marine made.End of discussion.(I know,because I tried-LOL-nothing mama said at that point was ever heard....typical 18 yr old,he called the shots,made each arrangement and his dad and I were simply "invited guests".He invited all boys and leaders equally.He did not ask Mr S or the CC to be involved(something in our Troop is a given,these 2 guys run ever Court of Honor,and both were angry that they had their toes stepped on,by my son leaving them out of his event.Both men admitted this to me,even stating that they would not attend as guests as they were not wanted.(IEven as I write...I cringe myself at the level of immaturity,the pettiness...the childish behavior...but again,you really can't make this stuff up,I wish I wasn't having to write all of this,but the fact is,it all MATTERS. On 2-1-12,2 weeks later, the recharter was initiated,and the key figures(who my son apparently "highly insulted-that was the words used by the CC when my son went before him and Mr S,to apologize if he didn't do things exactly the "correct way",but he made his decision based upon his longstanding relationships with these men.I give my son credit-he tried to apologize,telling both men the truth,that he that he had received word from his Marine staff here,and that he could be pulled to duty on any day, and because of this,he felt he had to rush things more quickly,instead of taking the extra time,sitting down with both men before asking the others to lead his COH, he said "Im sorry I should have come to you both and explained the reasons for my decisions in my COH. Both men actually refused to accept his apology,and the CC said to him "I cannot accept your apology,it is too little too late",my son extended his hand to shake te CC hand-and the CC walked away,commenting to his son,who was present along with myself,"You know son,the only good Marine is a dead one").No further word,neither leader showed up or called, no congratulations...and no goodbye "Scout",good luck in the Marines(and yes,yes,yes,Mr S is a retired Marine!)When asked by the BSA Senior DE why my husband and I were ommitted from the charter....the CC stated "We just dont feel comfortable with them as Leaders anymore". The CR,when asked,stated "We have too many Leaders (even though the actual # of Leaders has dropped by nearly 50% in the past 5 years, we still have an active 11 yr old son involved,and at least 6 ASL have had their sons graduate and move on..yet they remain because they love what they do-as we also did.Furthermore,we were told(honest to God)that the Troop will STILL CONTINUE to currently accept new Leaders from the graduating Cubs...yup!...Mr S Posse parents.Too many Leadres,yet accepting more.Statements it isnt anything personal....yet less tan 5 minutes later told "We didnt attend your sons COH because we weren't wanted there".Finally..as we were leaving the meeting,walking to our vehicles,I was with my 11 yr old son and 9 yr old daughter,Mr S had his 2 sons,ages 11 and 14 with him.,As we reached our cars,parked within feet of each other(my husband was on the opposite side of the lot and didnt see or witness this part)...I made the comment that I felt this was still very personal,that each time we were told something,a contradiction occurred(too many leaders,but still taking more???),once again,Mr S became enraged at my QUESTIONING HIM".As we walked to our cars,he opened his car door,with 4 kids present,and screamed at me..."YOU ARE A F***ING TROUBLEMAKER!".he slammed the door to his car,opened the car window,peeled out of the lot ....while still screaming from his car. I requested dozens of meetings with Mr S over the years,initially,he responded by stating"What for,will it make a difference its just a waste of time".Later requests,i writing,went unanswered.Upon the Sr DE asking why we were omitted from the charter-after being told 2 different reasons....the SM claimed we failed to show up at meetings from Jan-May.I stated over and over,to no avail,that events were happeninmg but we were not receiving any emails with this info,therefore,we had no knowledge and did not attend.Only after the BSA Commissioner sat and listened,and investigated for himself-was I proved correct.When the recharter occurred,our email was removed from the distribution list(it should have been removed from the Leader list and placed ion the Parent list, yet that never happened).Once the Commissioner actually decided to listen and investigate was my claim substantiated. This is the end of the line,I believe...In trying to correct a situation,and for the way I went about it,because I knew no other way,and because no one,no one was listening....I realize I have secured the fate of both my husband and myself.This past Monday,my husband,me, the CC,Mrs S, the CR and Commisiner sat down with us and formally told us both(this was in fact the very 1st time anyone besides me ever told my husband,no other person had ever told him,and as such,the Sr DE took the position.."Since he wasnt officially told, he should operate as he normally would,its not your position to tell him" My situation is different,as no one ever filed my Applications and added me to any charter since 2004(the Troop did not,as the felt it was an unnecessary expense,to be "dually-chartered",so they left it to the Cubs to file the charter,as my role at that time was primarily with the Cubs)I am exhausted.I am hurt.I am beyond humiliated.I am saddened that I will not have the opportunity to serve as I did my 1st born,Eagle Scout son, with my middle child....my 11 yr old son.I recognize that there is no possibility ever of correcting the situation. For all I did do,whether I always did it fr the boys..or maybe,perhaps I also did it for me..it was an experience and an outlet I found more fulfilling than any other,and to witness my son become an Eagle...yes...the definite reason,ultimately,for why I did what I did,for as long as I did. Is this enough information friends...please?I have tried to give information I believe is significant.Its alot,its enough.To all those who may respond,I remain more grateful than you will ever know..if you have any positive words of wisdom,assurance,anything that can help the situation.If you are going to tell me to stop complaining..I really want to,this has taken a toll,and I reached the end of this battle...but I do so knowing the facts I know...i walk away knowing that a situation remains,one that may have repercussions later down the road for another person...another Leader, another boy..MY SON.I will follow up and would like to...but please,I ask again...dont lead me down a road you would not go down yourself,or for the beloved older Scout Leaders who've been around forever,ask yourself..is this the advice and direction I'd give my daughter for my grandson? I am still proud of my family,our accomplishments and the differences that I will always know,in my heart,I made.I know I did,no one can take that from me.But if there is a way for me to reclaim my name...that'd be an awfully nice benefit.No one deserves to be treated badly...and certainly,not under the enormous name and reputation of the BSA. I've always supported them...however,its the lack of support by the paid staff that I find so hard ti understand,so hurtful and intolerable.Why? Its a question I will never get an answer to,at least I don't think I will... But I can always hope...right? Thank you to you all..again. Starfish2

Mine is a VERY long issue so I do apologize in advance,its also pretty confusing.It is VERY HURTFUL. Will do my best to present facts.After serving 14 yrs w BSA,I am HEARTBROKEN.I(n 1999 I was recruited with my FIVE YR OLD SON,to become Tiger leader the day he turned 6.Had GREAT EXPERIENCE,loved every second,group was new Pack with 2 Men(CM & ACM),rest all women.GROUP WAS FAMILY,saw me thru 2 pregnancies,fantastic group.Moved up ranks as Leader each yr w/my son,became CMx2YRS,remaining on even AFTER son graduated to help new CM("Mr.W")who only stepped up in '04after I pleaded,guy had HEART OF GOLD,but was abused by group,led by BULLY PARENT,MALE,EX MARINE(hereforth referred as Mr.S)who saw combat,has psych issues(Im LICENSED SW,& QUALIFIED TO MAKE DIAGNOSIS)Mr S is SATAN INCARNATE.Put Mr.W,a 45YO MALE PROFESSIONAL thru hell-w/mistreatment by Mr S.& posse of parents.Next yr,CM finally stepped down,and Marine took over(had refused to do so initially when asked,as was going thru messy divorce).Mr S served as CM from 2004-2011,.I returned to CS w/2nd son in 2006,as Tiger Leader w/2nd son.From DAY 1,had issues w Mr S,CM.Paranoid as I had been CM(although I had NO DESIRE or ever considered being CM again,happy in my little den.Mr S verbally abused me,gossiped,spread lies,etc etc for 6 YRS.I looked forward to moving in to BS w/son upon bridging--until I learned Mr S was becoming SM @same time.Have endured blatant lies,nasty comments,while I have NEVER reacted.From 5/2011,updated paperwork to reflect AS to Troop.Served actively 5/2011,completing Eagle project w/eldest son,Asst SM for younger newbie.May 2012,informed that in Feb my application would not be renewed,& was not replaced on Charter.Also,my husband(who served 8 yrs as AS in Troop as well)was also left off-reason SM stated was made by CC and CR,"Too Many Leaders"LOL!"(No of leaders now down by 50% since we joined).Feel completely betrayed.Requested SM reconsidere,spoke to CC and CR,both stated we had not attended meetings.Then found we were removed email distribution list when rechartered(no one believed us,until finally Commisioner investigated,substantiated my claims)Bottom line-Eagle Scout son chose previous SM of 10yrs(ALSO MY COUSIN)&PreviousCM to lead Court,an 'insult'to SM,CC.SM is taking yrs of personal anger towards me,out on my entire family.Removing us from LEADER POSITIONS AFTER 20YRS COMBINED EXPERIENCE BECAUSE TOO MANY LEADERS,yet we still have 11 YR OLD IN GROUP,when 6 current leaders HAVE HAD SONS GRADUATE&LEAVE,yet permitted to remain ACTIVE TROOP.ALSO as Mr S possse of parents have sons coming up into Troop,he informed HE WILL ADD THEM AS 'FRESH LEADERS WHO CAN GIVE MORE".Reported this to Sr.District Evecday after told,1st wk in May.Sr DE made TONS of promises,did NOTHING.DE ADVISED TO SHOW UP,CONT AS LEADERS IN FULL CLASS A UNTIL SITUATION RESOLVED.Reprimanded by Mr S CC for doing so.Further,3 incidents have now occurred-reported ALL TO BSA Sr DE.Mr S has verbally reprimanded me,incl name calling in presence of boys/leaders,in memorial Day parade,Mr S, approached me,initiated screaming(I said not a WORD),as he was doing so,another AS approached me,pulled me by the arm,removing me from my location in group in Parade,leaving bruise(shown to Sr.DE next day in BSA office when incident reported).Last,on 6/18,Mr S cursed and shouted at me in presence of 3 boys(& my 9yr old dtr).ALL REPORTED TO BSA SR DE,who has refused to take any action,states,"THIS IS A CHARTER ORGANIZATION ISSUE AND CHARTER REP HANDLES IT".CR refuses to bring issues to organization,makes decisions INDEPENDENTLY-with Mr S and CC ONLY.Finally,during course of this entire mess,it was discovered that while working w/MR, in his role as CM,he failed to EVER FILE A SINGLE DOCUMENT ON MY BEHALF,NO PAPERWORK EXISTS SHOWING MY ROLES SINCE I LAST FILED W COUNCIL IN 2004.Mr S has turned so many against me,I know my days w BSA are over,damage is irreparable,however,I REFUSE TO BACK DOWN ON ISSUES-VERBAL ABUSE,PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION W INJURY HE INSTIGATED & WITNESSED,THEN LAUGHED ABOUT W OTHER MALE LEADERS,CURSING AT ME IN PRESENCE OF 3 SCOUTS ON 6/18,and FACT THAT HE FAILED TO EVER FILE ANY DOCUMENTATION ON MY BEHALF.Most infuriating,BSA refuses to ACT,passes buck to CHARTERING AGENCY WITH",only CR MAY,and he refuses,intimidated by Mr S.My husband has given up,our 11 yr old is DEVASTATED(after 15 months,Mr S has STILL FAILED TO AWARD HIM SCOUT RANK!When I asked how to file a complaint against Mr S,& Asst SM who grabbed and pulled me physically,BSA stated they will "have to find out"how to advise me of complaint process.Mr S is a loose canon,I witnessed him,in course of activities w/BSA approx 3 yrs ago,grab his minor child by his arm,and physically pull at.lift 8 yr old child by arm,swinging from Marine arms over head,all the while boy was shrieking and screaming.Other CL and parents present,I was intimidated into keeping my mouth shut-"its his own son and this is his way of disciplining him".I now know that I was not a 'recognized Leader even,since Mr S never filed ANY of my paperwork...essentially also stealing 8yrs of service from me(awards,knots,etc all eligible and deserved,but now,I will never see. FINAL THOUGHT-My name,reputation so tarnished,I was called an "F---ING TROUBLEMAKER"in front of SCOUTS,I was physically touched inappropriately IN PRESENCE OF THIS SM,THIS SM HAS NEVER FILED ANY DOCUMENTS ON MY BEHALF,and although the BSA IS AWARE AND KNOWS,they refuse to take ANY ACTION TOWARD BEHAVIOR OF MR S.How can I get the BSA ORGANIZATION TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST MR S,AND AT LEAST INVESTIGATE MY CLAIMS.I have been stripped of ALL RIGHTS,TOLD TO CEASE & DESIST ACTS ON BEHALF OF BSA(By SM),and that although our 11 yr old is "welcome",WE ARE OUT.Charter Agency is being named as responsible,but I am FORBIDDEN TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION.I reported this to Mayor, and to NJ State Senator who called BSA Sr DE...yet still...nothing. VERY MUCH APPRECIATE ANY SUGGESTIONS,FEEL AS IF I LOST MY FAMILY.(APOLOGIZE FOR LENGTH OF THIS STRING)