sst3rd

Stosh, I got what you're saying. Of course it's easier to travel by yourself or maybe with friends and/or family. With all of Scouting's rules and regulations and the obvious limitations of a Troop of 10, 20, 40, or 50, you become limited, and not very flexible. Transportation also becomes a big problem. I'm glad that you've opened up you outdoor adventures again. You gave a lot to Scouting and I know your former Scouts have lots of great memories. Enjoy. I'm getting that your current and only position in the BSA is as a Unit Commissioner? Great. They are few and far between in my District/Council. I was a Scoutmaster for my old Troop for over 33 years. They taught me a lot and kept me fairly young. Church support disappeared for political reasons and I resigned. Most of the Scouts left that summer. After two years, I was asked to start a community Troop in the same area as my old Troop. We picked up most of our old Scouts, and they are the foundation of the new Troop. Good times. It's hard work, and camping has to be planned as you know. Youth are taught to learn to lead. It's slow but it's happening. My wild solo camping days are over. Limited financials and physical well being, are slowing me down a bit. But I'm moving ahead. I hope that in the future, an opportunity will come, where you might get back involved on the Troop level. You have much left to give. Please keep an open mind. WWW, sst3rd

Roadkill patrol, As all of this uncertainty happens, make sure all of the adult leaders maintain a positive attitude. Fall is big for football and band. It happens. Don't let anything get you, the other adult leaders, and the remaining Scouts down. Have an election for a Patrol Leader, and keep those activities rolling. When the active Scouts see that all of the activities will happen even as a few Scouts are doing something else, they feel confident knowing that their program is important. Keep the camping trips fun and exciting. Keep moving ahead, and soon the other Scouts will get back to the program, knowing that no activities were cancelled because they chose to do something else. You lead, you follow, or get out of the way. Encourage all of the adult leaders to keep supporting the Troop as you go through this transitional period. The Scouts are watching and listening. Set a good example. sst3rd sst3rd

83Eagle, I understand your observations. I am the Advisor for our Chapter Ceremonial Team. We are responsible for Call-Out and Arrow of Light Ceremonies. One of several points I make to the Team, is when performing the Arrow of Light Ceremony, usually at a combination Blue and Gold/AOL/graduation program, you must maintain your character. Not only will you be challenged by the younger Cubs (Tigers, Wolfs, and Bears)with their laughing and silly comments, but their younger brothers and sisters that also attend these programs. I simply ask them to present a strong ceremony, stay in character, accept the challenge of self control, remember that you are representing your Lodge, and most of all, have fun. Our guys do a great job, and I'm always very proud of them. And after the ceremony, these younger kids and Cubs, are the first to ask me if they can have their picture taken with the Team. I feel that even though these younger Scouts may not "get it" at this stage. The OA is laying the foundation for these future Boy Scouts, and their possible involvement in the Order of the Arrow. Just my thoughts, sst3rd

teacher/scout, Sounds like a good plan. You can't control the actions of anyone but yourself. You've taken the high road, given notice with plenty of lead time, and have every intentions of keeping your promises. Leading by example. You both have a lot on your plate. Take care. sst3rd

Diogenes, There is no such policy. Ask this Chapter Chief to provide a copy of this approved policy. Any member of the OA can, and should want to, attend Chapter meetings as well as any Chapter activities. He's just trying to force Troops to supply OA Representatives. In theory, that's nice, but it's not going to happen. Again, have this Chapter Chief show you a copy of this policy. And I can't imagine a Chapter Advisor supporting this policy. It just doesn't make any sense. sst3rd

Navigator, I like what you did, how you did it, and when you did it. You made a simple offer. They chose of their own accord to participate. Class time did not conflict with Troop/Patrol activities. You made no extra effort to "push" the signees. And you had a great program for those Scouts that came. Of course, when next time you make this offer, more Scouts will sign up, and more of those signed up, will come. And it builds a better Troop/Patrol program. I bet you had as much fun as they did. When a plan comes together.............. and I'm sure you touched base with the SM prior. This is how it should work. sst3rd

Concscouter, Sounds great. Steady as she goes. Try to keep those by-laws simple, and I'd really would suggest you call them Troop Guidelines or something similar. It sounds less rigid. Just my thoughts. Have fun. You're headed North. sst3rd

concscouter, My situation wasn't quite as complicated. We had one new (two years, and former Scout of this same Troop), big mouthed adult who complained about the Troop program. I was the SM and followed the program for over 33 years. The program works. This idiot wouldn't take care of his Committee responsibilities, and the CC wasn't confident in his duties to keep this guy straight. Big mouth got the COR involved to stir things up even more, and since the COR didn't know his responsibilities, he allowed big mouth to hold a public meeting in the parking lot in front of the Scouts to openingly critisize me. I took this as a "no confidence" vote from the COR. After this public meeting (I didn't defend myself), I quietly approached the COR (we all go to the same church that sponsors this Troop), and resigned. Two years later at a wedding reception for one of my Eagle Scouts (and Iraq veteran), several former parents of Scouts from the old Troop wanted to look into starting a new Troop in the same neighborhood. We all started meeting weekly on an unofficial basis. We talked to the former Scouts (the old Troop went from 20 active Scouts to 5 sort of active Scouts), about starting a new Troop. We explained that it would take some work on their part, but we could create a new program for them once again, doing it the right way. They were very excited. We contacted Council/District, found a sponsor, and chartered 12/30/10. We start with three former Scouts (experienced leadership that I trained at the old Troop), two cousins, and four friends. It's a great start, and we hadn't started recruiting yet. We have all required adult leadership (trained), and more on the way. Before we thought about starting a new Troop, I had two serious talks with my pastor about the old Troop. He said he understood my concerns, but the church wants to be inclusive and didn't want to remove any Scouts or leaders from the old Troop. The old Troop will recharter with just the minimum adult leaders and Scouts. They have no Pack or connection with the church. I see no future for them. The old Troop has a Scout building (the Scouts built it back in 1968, I was there), canoes and a ton of equipment I donated to the Troop over the years. Of course, it all belongs to the church. So, the new Troop starts from scratch, but these new Scouts are excited about their new program. Concscouter, I think you made the best choice, so your son can be a part of a real Scouting program. Build it and they will come. Congratulations. You can have some fun too. And that's what it's all about. WWW sst3rd

leader1118, This situation is to the extreme. I know, that you know, that there are many excellent Packs, Troops, and Crews all across this great nation, that successfully execute their level of the Scouting program. My Troop had one new loud mouth idiot Committee person, blow the Troop apart, because he saw the weak spots in the adult leadership. Scouting was never designed to defend adult leaders. We all simply have accepted positions in a unit, to train, and work as a team. We want to support our Scouts to allow them to grow in so many positive ways. Hang in there. Clear your mind. Support your Scout. Find a great unit. Don't look back. Scouting is much better then what you and your family have been through. As the COR (and your husband as the CC), you could have cleaned house if you wanted to. Our COR does nothing, and just wants everyone to get along and work things out without him having to get involved. Most of the Troop has quit, and when the loud mouth realized that he wasn't going to be asked to be the new Scoutmaster (I was the old one and resigned), he moved him and his son to another unit, and is starting to do the same things there. I feel for his son. We'll all make it through. Steady as she goes. I believe in Scouting. sst3rd

At the risk of sounding pithy, I'm with those who have their older experienced Scouts teach the younger inexperienced Scouts. They should know in advance if they are teaching or leading a knot themed contest or game. And could then take time before the event to refresh needed skills as necessary. So, to answer the question, "unreasonable to expect?", no.

Basementdweller, No.

No.

BadenP, I don't see the words "leaders" or "leadership" in either of your two quotes. I took the slightly older version of Woodbadge. I had already been in Scouting for so long, I didn't learn anything new about operating and delivering the program, but made good friends and added some resources to use. Our Woodbadge Course flowed like a Scout Troop. It validated what my current Troop was doing. I keep current of the program, and deliver it. Keep your Troop's program active, challenging, fun, and "safe", and the Scouts and their friends come on board. The one thing I've become more aware of now a days, is the bully problem. It has to be dealt with swiftly, and with the support of the parent(s). If not, big problems develope, as you can't supervise the program all of the time (trust). My former Troop is dying fast, because of a bully who can do no wrong (per Dad), and his step-grandfather is the Scoutmaster. I've been asked to form a new Troop with all of the defectors. So, have a great program, and they'll come. sst3rd

For crying out loud, just run the program. It works. Bringing up these stories makes no sense. sst3rd

As a former long time Scoutmaster, I've really enjoyed being able to concentrate on my advising the OA Chapter Ceremonial Team. We were at a Troop meeting last week for a Call-Out, and I recognized the Scoutmaster as a three beader Woodbadge Staffer who tends to step on toes alot around the District. He didn't know me, so when I introduced myself, he looked at my uniform checking for patches and knots. I'm proud of my Scouting career for the experiences and fun, but I don't wear any of the stuff on my uniform. Call me lazy I guess, I used to try and keep up with moving the stuff from shirt to shirt. I got tired of it. Like I said, I'm a bit lazy. Anyway, I then realized that this guy was the former Scoutmaster, and has been for over a year. He still had his patch on his uniform. I met the real Scoutmaster, as he was the one I was looking for in the first place. To some folks, all of these awards and recognition are important. To some, it's not. And to some, being very active in a unit's program, these awards and recognitions just kind of happen. No reason to discount them. I respect everything mentioned here. sst3rd

I was a Scoutmaster for over 33 years. Along the way, I got involved with the District Camping Committee, in order to better organize our District Camporees. Over the years, our camporees had become very boring, so I got involved. Themes and their associated stations became more exciting and challenging. I directly advised this committee in improving the Saturday night campfire programs. Troop participation increased. I wanted our Troop to want to go to these camporees and have a great time. We did. I was also asked to work on the District Training Committee. I did. So, even though my primary responsibility was as a Scoutmaster, I wanted to help the District improve its programs that would directly benefit our Troop. I wasn't looking for it. But around 15 years ago, I was honored to receive the District Award of Merit from a great bunch of folks I have grown in Scouting with. GOBN ? Depends on your definition. A great group of Scouters, YES. I don't like labels. sst3rd

SctDad, I understand your position. I'm Chapter Advisor to our Ceremony Team. I've had 5 youth chairman over ten years. With our Chapter Advisor's support, from the beginning, I decided to coordinate requests for AOL and Call-Outs. Those are the only ceremonies we do. We don't do Crossovers, as that's between the Pack and the receiving Troop(s). I keep the Ceremony Team's calendar. We ask all requests to come through me, the adult advisor. I make all of the contacts with adult leaders. I ask about dates, times, locations, inside or outside, what did you do the year before, amd many other variables. We ask for a 30 day lead time. If a date is already occupied, I try to work out a new date. If a date request is too close to a confirmed date, I ask for a new date, or apologize if we can't accomodate. I keep the youth Chairman in the loop and ask for his input and opinions. I want the youth Ceremony Chairman to deal with his Team members by; recruiting new members, by collecting their preferred communication info, editing ceremonies per each request, practicing the ceremonies, repairing and keeping clean the various outfits and associated props, actually making contacts of members for upcoming ceremonies and letting me know the status to avoid problems in advance, work out transportation issues, and much more. Most inportant for me and the Team, is for them to be proud of their service to the Packs and Troops, and have FUN. Yes, even at their usually advanced age, it still needs to be fun. It works for us. WWW sst3rd

1) Mom's coconut cream pie 2) grandma's apple pie 3) my blackberry pie 4) chocolate chess pie 5) lemon pie

That our COR (I'm the former SM) will realize his big mistake due to lack of knowledge of the BSA program. I trained him as best I could, but could never get him to go to training. I kept things going great for years, and when I needed his support, he didn't know his responsibilities and wimped out. I resigned of course, and the once proud and active Troop of 25 Scouts, now barely has 6 show up to meetings. It's been 10 months, and every Sunday at church (this Troop's sponsor and my church as well), I have to deal with him (the COR). The preacher wants to help, but lets me know of all of the great things this man does for the church. The preacher and I have talked at length as to what happened, why I felt the COR failed, and how to fix it. Oh yeah, even after a successful "school night for Scouting," this past September, the associated Pack is now a memory. My biggest concern are the Scouts that have left this Troop's program the last 10 months. I know why they left, and that's the problem. I left the preacher and the CC each with this statement. "This can't be what you want in a Troop program." The CC could have taken care of all of this as well, but he didn't take his training either, etc., etc., etc.. This is the Troop my brother and I were Scouts in. Many, many years of great memories. It was indeed my pleasure and privledge to have been the SM. sst3rd

After many years, I stepped down 10 months ago. Everyone knew what they needed to do, but it turned into a huge mess. One loud mouthed father evidently didn't agree with the Committee's choice for the new Scoutmaster. He raised hell about it. And had to be removed from the Troop. Meanwhile the new Scoutmaster quit. The Committee asked a grandfather to take over. He had limited experience but didn't want to see his grandson lose his Troop. But it's the grandson who is a major part of the problem. Grandfather made him SPL, and he's taken his loud mouthed bully want to be attitude to a new high. Scouts have quit, and our once proud Troop of 20 active Scouts now has 6 Scouts. The Committee Chair isn't aware that he could have prevented this, I encouraged him to do so but nothing happened. The COR is useless, doesn't want to get involved, and just wants everyone to get along. My church is the sponsor. I've received phone calls from parents and Scouts that have quit. I could only encourage them to try and make it better, or go to another Troop. Since the CC and COR don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, I had a meeting with the pastor and made him aware of things. He's a good guy, and knows of my many years as the SM, and how disappointed I was that things should be running better. It's in his hands now. I feel terrible, but sometimes you just got to let go. Several other Troops in the immediate area, are barely able to re-charter. It's really bad around here. My old Troop was great, and Scouts were bringing their friends in for a good time camping (the Pack never was active consistantly), but with the big mouth SPL bossing everyone around, they leave. You'd figure someone would "get it." I hate to see this happen, but oh well. I still do District and OA Chapter stuff, so I haven't left Scouting. sst3rd

I lost a Patrol once at a Camporee. We eventually found them. All good. But after 33 years as a Scoutmaster, I've never had Scouts walk away from a camping trip before. Be fair. Be firm. As I know you will. I resigned as SM this past February. I didn't want to deal with the parents anymore. When their boys mess up big time, their parents backed them up, and not our/their program. I couldn't believe it, and how ungrateful the parents and Scouts had become. Done with it. sst3rd

Why would a Scout not want to wear his uniform to his Eagle Board of Review? For crying out loud folks; over the time it took a Scout to earn all of his ranks prior to Eagle, and all of the skills he has learned, and all of the resources that he has been provided, certainly he would have been able to put together just ONE complete uniform. Is it really that embarrassing ????!!!!! Where's the pride?

I can't help but think that their leaders knew exactly what they were doing. Our Council has a camp on a large recreational lake. Troops have had these types of disputes there for years. Someone's Woodbadge project was to mark each campsite. I saw this, made a map and submitted it to our council to use for units to reserve specific sites. This is a large primitive camping area. All good, but we'd go down every August (two hours for us)and there would still be a troop in our site. I'd ask them to move after showing and comparing paperwork (most did not have a reservation or permit). There are two sites that have small pavilions, and we wanted the use of our reserved site with pavilion. Our troop is around 20 strong, and most troops we've encountered were small as well. I'd stand there until they'd move. I've long since grown tired of making the effort to follow the rules and still get pushed around. Works for us. sst3rd

Mr. Williamson.

In short, no. He is not a member of the Troop Committee, plus, Committees don't "vote" on anything. Please review the Committee manual for specifics. sst3rd