sst3rd

I find it interesting that anybody is giving yaworski any responses. I know that I won't. sst3rd

Please, make it stop. I just can't handle the anger anymore (joke.....). However, if I want opinions, inputs, thoughts and ideas, I ask for it, and get it. If I need a quick policy check, I throw it toward Bob. If someone else answers, great. I usually ask for directions to the written word to back up the answer, and everyone responds, Bob included. I thank all for you for sharing your Scouting Spirit. sst3rd

Bob, For a lot of us who have been in Scouting as youth, and again as adult leaders, it's hard to let go of the many "traditions" of Scouting that were, at the time, okay to allow as part of the BSA program. Most of them, yes in my opinion, added to the program in appropriate ways. Society was different then, and I'm not going to argue specifics. Today, everything is on the table for evaluating. Traditions are trashed to the lowest common denominator. Everyone is watching everyone else, looking for any inappropriate behaviour. The Scouts have long since picked up on this. Scouting in today's society, is a huge challenge to say the least for all adult leaders. We must know, acknowledge, put into practice, all BSA policies, rules, edicts, whatever they are called. Period. No room for opinions, interpretations, or common sense. As for me and our Troop's current adult Staff, we must create an energetic atmosphere for training the youth leaders of our Troop as they come on board. They hear of years past, the campfire programs, skits, and stories, and we can no longer allow them. Most of this material came from Basic Leader Training, and later promoted and encouraged at Woodbadge. So, we show them where to find new material to use, and it's just so boring and juvenile, it's hard to get them to use it. Another challenge we adult leaders face, and will accept. It's become more time consuming then ever, to train these young men in creating an exciting program they can bring to the Troop. For smaller Troops with less resources, it's getting old. But we ain't done quite yet. I agree, policies and regulations are NOT open for interpretation. You go Bob. sst3rd

To answer the topic question, I'm trained. A little off topic, but Le Voyageur, how did your canoeing program go this year? We're thinking of sending a group. We were at Powhatan, and did New River, etc.. Any changes for next year? Thanks to all for your patience. sst3rd

Ed, All of the camps in our area, are mess hall type camps. Our Troop program stresses the Patrol method throughout the year. Because our summer camp programs are so diversified, we tend to let the Patrol method go at summer camp. The Scouts are on so many different schedules and programs, we allow and encourage each Scout to plan their summer camp programs. If the need for a Patrol competition or program does come up, we let the Scouts put a Patrol together. I will let you know, that a normal kitchen box (and all of its equipment) goes to summer camp. We do Crackerbarrels each night, and if we need to cook in the campsite for a variety of reasons, we have the stuff to do it with. It gets a bit nippy at night, and I like having a pot of coffee going. sst3rd

ScoutParent, That thought came up before at the PLC and Committee meetings, but our Council and District are set up where there is a Pack associated to a Troop. However, there are a few extra Packs here and there, and they are heavily recruited by nearby Troops. In our case, all area Troops have a Pack associated with them, and when a Webolos leader trys to take his Den in another direction, a phone call to Council gets it straightened out. I will say that if an individual Webolos/family checks out other nearby Troops, that's usually not a problem. OldGreyEagle, That's an idea I haven't heard of before. I'll check it out. But as you can see by my reply above to ScoutParent, our Council/District is set in it's ways. It pushes the Night For Scouting in the fall for Packs, but encourages Open House Programs for the Troops. We've had Open House programs in the past with dismal results. We promote, plan, and present, but have very little turnout, and our Scouts are easily discouraged. We're Keepin' the Scouting Spirit sst3rd

I've heard all of these discussions before, and again I say that it must be nice to even have graduating Webolos into your Troop program. Our Troop runs an excellent program, but it now has been over three (3) years since we received an graduates, much less having to worry about retaining them. Our older Scouts know each other too well, and they need new Scouts to work with. When one of our few younger Scouts brought a friend on a recent campout, they couldn't do enough to show him a great weekend. He joined the next meeting. I've pushed the COR to do something until he utterly dislikes even seeing me. We both sing in the church choir, and I no longer bother to ask how the Pack is doing. I've pushed him to demand adult leader training, and turning the Pack over to other adults, but it's the same old story. The Pack has a leader whose sons have gone through this Pack program, but she wants to stay in charge. No other adult leader wants to do anything but assist. This leader is always late to meetings, and the parents complain, but don't want to do anything about it because they would have to get more involved. Meanwhile, the Troop is fading fast. As the Scoutmaster, we've been doing lots of recruitment programs, etc., and pick up a Scout here and there, but nothing like having a consistent group of graduates from the very Pack you support. Eventually the COR will take action. He won't have a choice. The Troop will be ready. sst3rd

Just came back from Blue Ridge Mountains Council Reservations Camp Powhatan. They also have a more rustic Camp Ottari, and many other dedicated programs of high adventure for the older Scouts. Above average facilities, but the most incredible and flexible Staff we ever been involved with. Their merit badge offerings are average, but their first year program, Brownsea, is an all day, all week, adventure. Our Scouts loved it. Again, their Staff makes them so successful. anderson

Ed, Our Troop has always allowed time at an Eagle Project as service hours for the other ranks. It certainly is an approved service project. The difference in the classification type of these projects makes no difference to the younger Scouts giving of their time to accomplish "their" goals in Scouting. They usually like to support an older Scout Eagle candidate, because they hope to be in that position eventually. The other type of service projects tend to be more lead by the youth leadership, instead of being planned and coordinated by an Eagle Scout candidate. To the younger Scouts, no difference. anderson

SCTMOM, Excellent point. We just got back from camp. Most everyone took their swim test Sunday night, but myself (SM) another leader, and two Scouts waited til Tuesday morning. One of these Scouts was from a brother Troop, and his SM made me aware of his "history" of taking the swim test. All four of us were ushered out to the test area, and as we were receiving our instructions, I happened to see the horror in his eyes. I wanted to say something, but he jumped in with the rest of us and although he struggled a bit, he made it. There's no doubt he has the abilities, but I agree with you, it's about being in control and being able to take "your" time. anderson

Since our Troop usually goes out of Council, the camp is usually about 5 hours away. Parents and Scouts are told that in the case of disipline problems or homesickness, the parent makes the trip. This cuts problems down quite a bit. All of the prior advice is good. The main thing is knowing the Scout, his family, and keeping the Scouts very busy throughout each day. At the end of the day, they usually come to an adult leader asking to go to sleep. We just got back from our week. For the first time in several years, we had two new Scouts. One Scout was so busy at Brownsea (first year program), he couldn't breathe. The second Scout got sick Tuesday, and I thought this was the end, but he surprised me. He woke up Wednesday morning, and said he felt "great," and off he went to his classes. Thursday night on his overnighter with the Wilderness Survival class, there was a rattle snake problem. He freaked out, and around 9:00PM that night, the Staff brought him back to our camp. We talked and he got in with the Troop program that night, and all was fine (he knows he'll make up the requirement at our next Troop weekend trip). He woke up sick again Friday morning, and he had to skip breakfast. But when we were walking back to camp from the mess hall, he met us in front of Scout Craft with several required projects, ready to wrap up his merit badge classes. I was proud of his making these efforts, and I told him so. anderson

I too, like reading a thread that is consistently constructive. All good advice that I agree with. I may have missed it, but does this Scout have all of the other requirements completed for 1st Class? If not, he has that stuff to work on. Also, as we are hoping for the peer pressure thing (and the younger Scouts to blow past him) and the adult encouragement to kick in, he can start working on merit badges he will need for Star. Although he can't get credit for the other requirements needed for Star until his BOR is signed off for 1st Class, he can at least start working the merit badge programs. anderson

Written Troop policy can make things SO complicated. To answer the question, have that specific Scout clean up his mess. The paper warning means NOTHING to a Scout, young or old. Scouts need immediate consequences for their actions, good as well as bad. In having the Scout clean up his mess, and since this action was obviously intended and purposefull, he needs to be told that next time a serious offense takes place, a parent will be summoned, a brief meeting will be held with all parties, and the Scout will be sent home until the next meeting. Possible suspension "could" be discussed. Stop this type of destructive action now, or it will "bite" you in the butt later. anderson

Jerry, Don't make Scouting any more work than you have to. You need to enjoy Scouting too. The Scouts certainly pick up on this. I understand your son's opinion and respect it, but if he doesn't want to go through the effort of changing Troops, could he change Patrols? Maybe he could find a better match of Scouts to work with. Jerry, try to be patient, and guide him through this process. If he is already in the younger Scout Patrol, could you be their advisor? You could isolate this Patrol, and show them true Scouting as it should be, and all of the opportunities Scouting has to give. It could set the example for the entire Troop (since you state that the trained adult leaders have a difficulty in transfering the ideals of Scouting to these younger Scouts). anderson

I certainly understand your getting involved with this Troop initially. You don't mentioned if you or any of the other adult leaders are trained. It's good that you're helping this program move in the right direction. However (you knew that was coming), your son's needs come first. You don't say that your son came through a Pack's program. I have found that if a young man joins a Troop with no prior Scouting experience, he either strongly likes it, or he strongly dislikes it. Some boys just don't like youth run organizations. If there are available Troops to visit, do so, and do it quickly. There could be a Troop out there that has the mix of Scouts and programs that your son will like. He will probably know some of these Scouts as well. The bottom line now is, your current Troop's program is not fulfilling Scouting's promise to your son. Find a Troop that is, and then your son can make the decision if Scouting is something he likes. anderson

So, if my training occurred more than 7 years ago, I'm worthless. Thanks a lot!! Maybe my initial courses happened years ago, but you make it your responsibility to keep yourself updated. There is plenty of written documentation of the changes, and Roundtables have kept everyone informed of changes to the Scouting program on all levels. There are many fundementals of Scouting that will NEVER change. If you want to be the best Scouter you can be (in whatever position you are), you always strive for it. Through all available avenues, the information IS there. anderson

As I'm sure the other leaders will tell you, there is no documentation telling leaders how they can "add" to the requirements. The requirements are to be completed as listed. All of the training programs inform you that you have no authority to make changes and/or additions to the requirements (under regular circumstances). If you are looking for "that" documentation, find out who is on your District or Council Training Staff. If you are concerned about confronting these Scouters, don't be. They may be Eagles, but have they been trained as adult leaders. If they have, they know that they are not to change or add to requirements. If you are willing to confront them with some sort of written policy, then you ought to be able to confront them with this bit of knowledge. It's flat out wrong. If they don't get it, for the sake of your program, get your Unit Commissioner involved. If you don't know who that is, call the Council office, and ask to talk to your District Executive. They have that information. Do it now !!!!!! anderson

I'm surprised that your DE is even in camp. Every summer camp, our Troop puts together a "Crackerbarrel" for each night. Something simple like watermelon, or something more involved like a cobbler or SMORES. The Scouts plan it and do it. Every Troop in camp does this. Sometimes neighbor Troops combine. Maybe it's just traditional at this Council's camps. We leave for camp in a couple of weeks. The camp we go to rarely disappoints. I'll report afterwards. anderson

I'll take it, thanks. You folks get so deep into this, I grew tired of reading. No one is going to change their opinions, period. I've said this before, there is already local option, it's just not a National BSA Policy in BOLD print in one of the manuals. Our Troop's Committee has long since discussed our responses when and if the subject comes up. For the 37 years of our Troop, it simply has NOT been an issue. I now pass the knot............. anderson

Our Troop hasn't used hatchets for years. Experience has shown me they are way to dangerous. We use a couple of 3/4 axes to teach Totin Chit. We allow limited use of the axe, as rarely are we in a position to use them. Bow saws are our mainstay. Much safer and more efficient. anderson

Dan, Sounds like the direction to go in. We've got our new youth leaders in the middle of training, so their eyes are getting opened. We just had our Annual Troop Planning Roundtable, so these new leaders will be putting together the Troop's 2002-2003 calendar this August. The Program Helps are a good place to start. Yes, brainstorming is good if done in an organized fashion. sst3rd (anderson)

I checked out your Troop's website. Looks organized and current. What type of feedback are you looking for? anderson

Mike, Thanks. I figured I've gone as far as possible. I'm usually hard on myself in these situations, but also don't want to drive it in the ground. Patience is the word. You're right about the loose lips sinks ships. I just hate it for the young man who lost his license, and was concerned that the inactive parents would blame the Troop. They didn't. They understood and placed the responsibility with their son. He's a good Scout, but I'm interested as to who doesn't show up at the next meeting. Thanks again, Anderson

Our Lodge issues a variety of Lodge flaps every year, and makes a good profit for the budget. Our Lodge also has a budget from Council. As far as our specific Chapter, we also issue Chapter patches every couple of years, and sell them to the new members at the three annual Ordeals. Our Chapter also has the only "trading post" (drinks and snacks)at our District's two annual Camporees. Has worked for us for years. Anderson

Yes, the wallet made it to the meeting. The Scout is the new Venture Patrol Leader, and he came early for training with the other new youth leaders. His parents are very strict, and he has to have the wallet (with his permit) in his possession at all times. I called all Scouts in his Patrol the day after, and asked if they may have accidently picked up the wallet, if so, call me (SM) and I'll return it to the Scout, problem resolved. No accusations were made, just general conversation about how important that the wallet be found. It's been 48 hours and no calls (I wasn't expecting any). The PLC meets next week. We'll discuss the situation and how it can be avoided in the future. Meeeanwhile, the adult leaders will be more proactive in its supervision of the meeting area. Thanks,,,, anderson