sst3rd

kwc57, Good ideas all. I will proceed with a letter, and then follow up with a phone call. I got a list of Webolos Leaders from our DE, however experience tells me that Pack Leaders move around alot, and some come and go. Yes, all of this within the year of registration. So, this will allow me enough time to get in touch with current Webolos Leaders, invite myself to one of their meetings, and invite them on a camping trip. However, we have Cub and Scout Roundtables at the same location, but different rooms. For a Scoutmaster to make a presentation of recruitment at a Roundtable, would not be appropriate and would not be allowed. Certainly I can make "contacts" at Roundtables during breakout times, but that's it. I was surprised the DE even gave me the information I requested. I shall proceed quickly, quietly, but with purpose. I won't be making any friends. sst3rd

I appreciate the responses. I'm kind of overwhelmed. I received the list from Council of the names and addresses of "Webolos Leader." I guess this would be Webolos I and II, etc.. I'll have to find the Packs in our immediate area. I'm going to put together a letter of introduction with an overview of our program. I will include our 2003 camping trip calendar, summer camp plans, and short and long term goals for our Troop's program. Two questions: 1) If I invite a Webolos group on an appropriate campout, should I go for one of our winter campouts (to catch them before Blue and Gold graduations), or wait for a spring campout. 2) Also, should I ask in the letter, for permission to attend one of their meetings to introduce myself (and one of our youth Staff). I would want them to call me, so as to not make them feel like we're pressuring them. Thoughts.......and thanks to all. sst3rd

Our Pack has finally folded (again). Our Troop hasn't received new members from our Pack coming up on four years. Our Troop supported the Pack on all levels, the problems are related to one specific Pack leader. Our COR is very slow in reorganizing, so in the meantime. I talked to our DE about my idea. I'm sure it's nothing new. He's given me a list of all of the other Packs surrounding our Troop. Only one Pack currently does not have an associated Troop. As Scoutmaster, I want to initiate contact with these Webolos Leaders specifically to publize our Troop's program as an alternative to their associated Troop. Yes, I'm trying to recruit Webolos from their Troops. I know it sounds underhanded, but our Troop currently has just a few younger Scouts and a bunch of 16-17 year olds. We need the infusion of younger Scouts and also new adult leadership. Sure, it's a long process, but we have the patience. What I need, are ideas in formulating a letter of introduction, to these leaders that will simply have them "think" of offering our Troop as an alternative to their Troop. I see in these boards, that a lot of the Webolos groups appear to go shopping for the Troops to graduate into. In our Council, it is assumed that you graduate from your Pack to the associated Troop, so, I'm taking a big chance that a lot of my fellow Scouters ain't going to like what I'm doing. We've tried, and will continue to try, all other recruiting programs. We have a consistent and excellent Scouting program (yes, boy run).Your ideas and thoughts please !!!! sst3rd

Slightly off topic, but several years ago at an OA Fall Fellowship, there was a big event. As always, many Scouts brought their large and valuable OA flap collections to trade. They usually left them out on the tables in the mess hall over Friday night, as the big trading session would be all day Saturday. Never had there been problems.......and then it happened. One particular Scout's collection was stolen. At breakfast, there was an announcement, but by lunch, nothing was resolved. Of course the point of OA members being HONOR CAMPERS came up. As most Scouts who seriously collect OA flaps, they have MANY duplicates in order to trade with. By dinner that Saturday night, this Scout was presented with a new collection of OA flaps that was as good as his old collection. Yes, there are rotten apples even in the OA, but I was so inspired by these Scout's generosity, I felt this story fit this thread. sst3rd

Littlebillie, I just knew you were going to take this thread in a negative, mean spirited, non-Scouting direction (I'm kidding......). Of course, I'm talking about your celebration running out of pecan pie before YOU got a piece. Luckily, I got to take half a pecan pie home. Happy Thanksgiving, sst3rd

Again, I wish I had these problems. Our Pack is now nonexistent. I meet (I'm the SM) each week with our COR in the empty Scout building during what used to be the Pack meeting. I keep asking him what he plans to do, and that I and the Troop will support his decisions. But, nothing ever happens. We're now headed toward the fourth cycle of graduations, with no Pack. I'm still listening to you guys. I like the validation and ideas. I can dream too..........

As far as the Webolos going to different Troops; you have the one ceremony, but representatives from each of the Troops to receive their Scouts. Keeping it simple. sst3rd

I agree with everything being said. There are many variables in a Pack/Troop relationship. Our Pack is now down to one Scout. He recently received his Arrow Of Light, and since there is no Pack to meet with, I'm trying to get him and his Mom (only parent) to visit our Troop. The long time Lady Cub Leader has finally driven our Pack into the ground. Late for meetings if she bothers to show up at all, she's trained, but only shows up when it suits her. The September School Night for Scouting was a raging success for our Council, but our Pack gained no one, because this Lady Cub Leader screwed up the dates. I wish (I'm the Scoutmaster) I had the problems you folks are having. We have a great program, and I guarantee you, we'd keep all of the graduating Webolos Scouts, except those that truly wouldn't like the Troop Scouting program. We're pushing the COR to reorganize the Pack, but he is reluctant to "release" this woman because she's the only one trained. I tried to tell him, that as long as she's there, everyone else will simply be happy to let her do the work, and then complain when she doesn't show up for meetings. Then they go home never to be seen again. I told our COR, that she's the REASON we're in this sad state. Our Troop always had great "two-way" relationships with our Pack but I can't run the Pack for them!!!! sst3rd

Just to see everybody break this down to little itty bitty pieces, has been entertainment enough. Come on Scouters (assumption, yes), no minds have been changed. Everybody's right, and no one is going to budge. Case closed. YIS sst3rd

daks68, You're going to get a lot of replies on this. Teaching merit badges is NOT part of the Troop meeting. Only on an exceptional basis would you set up, temporarily, a merit badge program as part of a Troop meeting(so you see, there is an exception to this rule). Scouts pursue merit badges through the guidance of their Scoutmaster and Advancement Committee person. This assures Youth Protection procedures, and that a registered and qualified counselor is participating. Group teaching waters down the effectiveness of learning from the merit badge program. By providing the appropriate merit badge program, the worksheet problem simply doesn't exist. Scouts are encouraged at the right time to start earning merit badges. They start, because they "want" to. The Scout is making the effort. He won't lose his worksheet. But, when a bunch of Scouts are grouped together for some sort of merit badge, they have no vested interest, thus, they don't care if they lose a worksheet. Change your Troop meetings and run the right program. sst3rd

I kept reading and wanted to reply, but she kept listing more and more violations that leads to a poor program. But all of the nearby Troops?????!!!!! Sad. Sounds like one might get a new rotation of leaders. If there is a Unit Commissioner, he/she needs to jump on that Troop fast, and give the support required, to get things going in the right direction for a change. sctmom, Be patient with your son. I bet he would like Boy Scouting in a Troop whose program uses the "methods." Sounds like he's busy, but Scouting is so special. As you've stated, so much CAN change within a year. Keep up with that "one" Troop........... sst3rd

I don't agree with the others. We have a smaller Troop, and have monthly dues. These dues pay for the awards. When these Scouts stopped coming to the meetings, they no doubt stopped paying their dues (if this is the case). They walked away from Scouting, and I don't think the adult leadership needs to chase these kids (they're no longer Scouts, they quit)and give them their awards. Now if your Scouts pay an annual fee to the Troop (registration fees, awards, etc.)and does not use monthly or weekly dues, and they are registered until next February, I guess you could call a parent and have them stop by and pick them up. Again, these kids quit Scouting. They "chose" to leave. Allow them to live with their choices. sst3rd

Sounds like you switched Troops at a most critical time. Why couldn't you stay long enough to see this process through? Anyway, the Eagle Application package is turned into the Council after the Eagle Board of Review. What's the Scoutmaster doing getting the letters of recommendation? What "financial statement" are you refering to? Is this in reference to donated or purchased materials needed for the Eagle Project??? The Advancement Committee person or the Eagle candidate's Board of Review Chairperson should be dealing with this. You guys obviously left this Troop for more than scheduling reasons, and now you'll have to pay the price of getting all of this stuff together and turned in. Good Luck. sst3rd

KS, Your Advancement Committee person needs to be trained in her specific position. She does advancement paperwork and awards, but also makes sure that merit badge counselors are qualified, trained, registered, and available. There is a specific form to register merit badge counselors. The form speaks for itself. I'm not aware of a specific limit on how many merit badges you can teach, but the qualifications to teach a specific merit badge is high (professional or serious hobby). This in itself, keeps this young ASM from teaching whatever merit badges the Venture Scouts might want. The young Eagle ASM needs to concentrate on the Venture Patrol and their program. So many choices to bring to the Scouts attention. This Advisor (ASM) should not be teaching merit badges, but training his youth leaders in the functions of the Venture Patrol program. KS, keep tight control on the merit badge process and INSIST that advancement procedures be followed. And what was the need for that special parents meeting???? Was it to lean on this young ASM to demand that he teach merit badges to get their Scouts to Eagle fast???? That's what it sounds like. Merit badges are 100% up to the Scout. Just make sure that your Advancement Committee person has qualified resources available. Looks like you'll need to recruit a new Advancement Committee person who will follow the Scouting program. sst3rd

DOOH, Where did you come from? Oh yeah, your profile is empty. hmmmmmm. What could that mean? EVERYONE ELSE, Anyway, the Scouts and Scouters in the Lodge, make the Lodge. Our Lodge is not perfect, but does a great job of promoting the Brotherhood, Cheerfullness, and Service. We hold three Ordeals a year, a Fellowship in the fall (with the annual Banquet). All of the Committees are constantly recruiting the new members for their Committees, and training is available all of the time. Every annual election that our Troop holds, is preceded by a talk from one of our Chapter's Election Committee OA members. He not only explains the election process, but what the OA is, and what it has mean't to him since he became a member. It goes over well. I also say a few words about how important EACH vote cast is. In reference to the popularity contest, shouldn't the point be about WHY a Scout is popular. Charisma is great, but can he start a fire, cook, save a life, stay calm if lost, swim, camp happily in the pouring rain, etc.. Over my many years of Scouting, I've been surprised often, as to who got elected. Remember, the Scoutmaster's approval is a requirement for a Scout to be nominated for the OA election. Also remember, that until a few years ago, Scouts voting in the election (OA members and nonmembers of course) were limited in how many Scouts they could vote for, as it was directly related to how many Scouts were allowed to be nominated. Of course, now the Scouts can vote for as many as they wish. Frankly, I didn't like this change. The Scouts don't really have to think anymore. If in doubt, they vote for the Scout.

It truly is good to hear all of these scenarios and opinions. Different Troops, different programs. I said this on another thread that was talking about Webolos retention being 50%, and that in some people's opinion, that was unacceptable. I stated that I wish our Troop had that problem, and that we would fix it, but we haven't seen a Webolos graduate from our Pack in over three years (yes, we're working it). So, when I hear all of these thoughts on all male and/or women leaders, I again remonded myself of the fact that our Troop has to aggressively recruit all available and qualified adults to be leaders in our Troop, in order to maintain our excellent program. Men and women are needed to meet BSA requirements. It's not that we don't have a real choice, we have an excellent mix of qualified and dedicated leaders, men and women. sst3rd

Two points: 1) Bob's point of the CO having direct say in adult leadership, as in no female leadership, is nothing new. This was discussed in my Basic Leader Training back in the 70's. 2) What seems to be missing in this discussion, is the fact that some Troops (big or small), simply didn't/don't have enough trained male leadership to run successful Troop programs. I've had to recruit women leadership for our Troop, simply because there was no "Dad," or if there was a Dad around, he was always working (usually at his golf swing). In our area of Virginia, women are very involved at all levels, and have been for many years. I saw the increasing involvement years ago, again, because there were NOT enough Dads getting involved !!! I do want to state, however, I do agree with the comments made by YoungBlood. My brother and I were Scouts in the early 70's, when there was exclusive male leadership. I don't remember one female leader on any level. "Guy time" is important, but a lot of Troops wouldn't be in existance today, if the Moms hadn't steped up years ago when needed. Thanks MOMS !!!!

Rooster7, Just wanted you to know that I read your response. That's all....................... sst3rd

Rooster7, OF COURSE I was talking about the additional support of a mother type figure, and how she can add to the support of younger Scouts under certain conditions. For crying out loud, does everything on this forum have to be broken down to the lowest possible interpretation????!!!! Your "one reservation" stinks!!! Does everything have to be twisted into something sexual????!!!! Obviously so !!!! We're ALL mentors to our Scouts. Yes, we adult male leaders used to be boys. But that was long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far, away. sst3rd

Ed and Bob, It's always a treat to see you guys converse. If the program at our Troop is successful, and currently it's doing well, I expect the Scouts to be in attendance. If they aren't, it certainly is impossible for the youth Troop leaders to perform their responsibilities. I get to know the Scouts and their families, and they inform me of upcoming conflicts and we work around them. A sports season or other temporary program, is understandable and understood. There are a lot of variables for the Scout Spirit requirement, and can be very flexible per Scout. I will tell you that one of our younger Scouts just came back to the Troop after taking the month of August off. He gave me a hug at the beginning of the meeting. The meeting went great. And upon leaving at the end of the meeting, he told me he probably wouldn't be back, and that he had football and karate on meeting nights. I talked to his Mom who was equally surprised. She said that she would talk with him (she's divorced). I don't know if anything happened that night, but I don't look for him to come back. Sometimes you just do your best and let the chips fall where they may. sst3rd

We've had women involved in our Troop as ASM's for over fifteen years. On this level, it was a necessity in order to have needed adult leadership. But I found from the very beginning, that there was a positive dimension added to our program because of these women leaders. Just as was stated, some Scouts prefer to talk to a receptive women leader about subjects they need to talk about, but would feel less comfortable talking to a male leader. Our female trained leaders continue to add positive leadership to our Scout's program. sst3rd

In our Troop, the Eagle Scout plans his own Court of Honor. There are so many variables, including the possibility of multiple Eagle presentations, the SM works with the Scout on what "he" wants in the presentation. The family has limited input, but usually want to do the reception afterwards. The Troop actually performs the Eagle presentation, but there are usually guest speakers ranging from past Pack leaders, Troop leaders, Scout friends from other Troops, and teachers. In the spirit of the Eagle, the possibilities are endless, but unless the Scouts want merged ceremonies, I'd advise to keep them separate. Each Eagle Scout is unique, as should be his Eagle COH.

What would inhance the Webolos program, would that there always be a Den Chief from the associated Troop working with these Scouts and their leaders. This would allow the gradual introduction of a "boy" lead Troop/Patrol program. I realize that Webolos Den Chiefs aren't their Patrol Leaders, but it introduces the youth leader concept. This being said, the biggest complaint I get from graduating Webolos, is that they don't like the older Scouts telling them what to do. Obviously, if the youth leaders are trained in how to lead, all is well. But to some kids, it just doesn't matter. They don't like anyone telling them what to do. This continues to be a growing problem with our graduates from the Pack. From parent/adult lead, to youth lead, it's a big change that some boys just don't like. To them, it's bullying.

We don't have one, and doen't see the need. The adult Staff and youth Staff camp in separate areas of the Troop site, but we organize food prep together. The adults tend to take care of things, as the youth Staff have to set up and run the Troop campout program. Yes, we use the same procedures and equipment as the Patrols, but it's simply understood what adult leaders do. It works for us.

a Bear.....................SE-499.