sst3rd

Joni, These leaders you mentioned, are they trained? Either way, the program is to be followed. I respect the situation you are in, but you can remove yourself and let the Pack die a natural death. Then, you can put your training and support with another Pack/Troop who follows the program. If you stay at your current position, simply state your responsibilities as Advancement Committee Person, find the documentation that states this position, and stick to it. Attend the Committee meetings and give your report, and then sit back and see whatelse happens. Let it go. Allow all else to fall by the wayside. If you have a Unit Commissioner, he/she is responsible for the correct execution of the program. You may not have one, so ask your District for one. The Commissioner's reponsibilities are to review a Pack's/Troop's program, and to "support" its leaders in correctly running that program. It's up to you how far you want to go with this...... sst3rd

For many years: Blue Ridge Mountains Council camps; Camp Powhatan and Camp Ottari.

I've waited for a few days, not really wanting to respond to this thread, but what the "HAY." For a living? I'm currently unemployed and a fulltime student. I had been with a company for over 21 years making circuit boards, but they decided to move the plant to China, and I didn't want to go. Looking for my next big gig.

Our sponsor is a Baptist church, and a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, but I'm not real sure what a "Southern Baptist" church is anymore. Although this church has sponsored the Pack/Troop for almost 40 years, the connection isn't really there anymore. They brought in Awanas about 5 years ago, and it has age groups about the same as BSA, however, our church has used this program mainly to memorize Bible verses for local competitions with other Baptist church Awana programs. If the church supported its Scouting programs like it does the Awana programs, both the Pack and Troop would be in much better shape. I'm guessing they wanted more religious training then Scouting could give. The Pack/Troop struggle to grow with the community instead, and trys not to be a burden for the church, hoping the church doesn't drop Scouting all together. sst3rd

Thanks everyone for your input. The APL will take the lead until the PL comes back. My initial concern, was that the APL had bad grades as well, and missed a meeting. I didn't find out until tonight, that although his grades need improving, his parents will allow him to attend Scout meetings. The APL came up through the Pack, so the parents are more knowledgable of Scouting. The PL came in with no Scouting background, but lots of enthusiasim. His parents like Scouting, but demand the good grades. Our PL's appoint their APL's. Thanks all,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm the current SM. Last August we had a 12 year old join the Troop from the church (our sponsor). Very sharp, smart, and excited to be a Scout. He's done great so far. Almost a First Class Scout. He was recently elected to be the Patrol Leader, has taken his training, and is doing a good job considering his inexperience. He's learning fast. Everything is going fine, until his grades started to slip. His parents want top grades, period. No excuses. He's been removed from the Troop for two months. I talked with the parents (not begged) about how Scouting can only be beneficial if he's active. They don't agree. Scout must be disiplined. So my choices are (have not had this problem before); 1) have APL take over until PL comes back, 2) have APL become PL until term is over, 3) because this is a long term suspension, reelect a new PL for the balance of the term, or 4) your ideas???? Thanks, sst3rd

Outstanding thread that I can relate to. All from Scouters that I respect. One of the challenges that I sometimes have as a Scoutmaster, is if a Scout becomes active again (maybe to make that run to Eagle), and needs that 6 months of leadership. We have a small Troop with limited positions. I know the SM can create a position, but it has to be substantial for the Eagle rank. Also, we sometimes have transfers from other Troops who are looking for an easier route to Eagle, and I still have the same problem. Our Troop has elections, and the positions are taken. JASM's are a waste with a Troop this small, and the younger Scouts who have been paying their dues, don't like to see these new older Scouts up on Staff with all of the perks and privledges. Thoughts and ideas??????

RE:I hate to dwell,but............. THEN DON'T !

I get tired of folks breaking words down and interpreting them (spin???) in a manner that works for them. It's all about common sense and courtesy. Our Troop has never had to deal with smokers inappropriately smoking at any time in front of our Scouts. We have a Scout building out back behind the church we meet in. I've never (SM) had to put up "No Smoking" signs. When I see a new parent who is smoking, before I can talk with them, they're already putting the cigarette out in the gravel drive way as they take their Scout inside. And we've had lots of smokers over the years (Phillip Morris is right down the road). sst3rd

Laura, Scot is in our prayers. A man of many special gifts, as all Scouters are, but to be so special to so many Scouts (as to your son). Scot's dedication is needed now, and for a long time to come. So, from the fall line of the mighty James River, I will mention Scot in my prayers Monday. Please keep us informed. sst3rd

Just remember to STOP, DROP, AND ROLL!! sst3rd

Yes, authentic comments from Scouts without having to "prompt" them. I was teaching a Scout to snow ski this past weekend. The other Scouts had long since gone on their way. After a couple of hours of intense instruction, he was moving along. After a particularly big spill, I approached him and assisted in getting him up. He looked at me laughing and said, "you've got a lot of patience to do this." That's a recharge for me. He was on the intermediate slopes by the end of the session. He'll be teaching younger Scouts next season. sst3rd

I've been at the Troop level for 26 years. We've worked the Eagle Application process through these years, and of course we have that portion of the Eagle Application filled out with recommendation information, but we have never required an Eagle candidate to actually procure letters from these folks. You're adding to the Eagle requirements, and that's not allowed. sst3rd

Scoutmom, I'm glad that things worked out for you and your son. Our Troop hasn't had Webelos graduates in four years. Our Troop leadership has tried to work with the Pack leadership, encouraging training, program assistance, recruiting their own leadership, but this one person drove the Pack into the ground. Our COR is trying to reorganize, and the Troop again is offering its assistance. It's going to be a long road, and meanwhile our Troop is actively recruiting from 6 other nearby Packs, but it appears that they all have strong relationships with other Troops. I recognize that that's a good thing. We'll survive. It's just that I'm a bit jealous when I hear everybody talking about graduations, ceremonies, Webelos retention, visiting Troops, etc.. And the beat goes on. sst3rd

Bob, It's nice to see that after all these years, the basics in PLC are still intact. We've adapted things to meet our needs, but maintain the detailed planning using all available BSA and other resources. Works great for us. Acco40, Sounds like a plan. However, I'm concerned about you "trying to gently persuade" your Scouts away from the school classroom sessions. I don't know if you as an adult should be getting this much involved...........(I'M JOKING, I'M JOKING !!!!!). But seriously, even with our older trained experienced Scouts, they have to be shown at least once, events and activities that they can really do in Scouting. It gets them started. And since you have such a young bunch, I find that they listen. Particularly when it's FUN. And it's supposed to be FUN !!!!!!! That's very contagious. sst3rd

Looks like lots of advancement policies are not being followed. Too many to mention. Other folks may break it down for you. Definitely find a new Troop. Since your son is working on his Tenderfoot, the bottom line is what is signed off in his handbook. He can keep the badge, but at this level, the handbook is the official documentation. Even if this current Troop went ahead and submitted an Advancement Report to Council with this bogus Tenderfoot recorded, his handbook will maintain priority. And when he REALLY finishes his Tenderfoot, and his handbook is signed off, he can give his bogus Tenderfoot patch to the new Troop for a real presentation at a real Court of Honor. The integrity of Scouting and your son's experience rests with you. Use your experience to steer him in the right direction, and show him how to have FUN in Scouting. The Eagle will take care of itself. sst3rd

This may be somewhat "dated," but I think you are supposed to meet (PLC) monthly AWAY from the regular Troop meetings. You cover a month of weekly Troop meeting programs in detail. We've evolved to having a PLC about every 7 or 8 weeks, because we have it at a regular meeting time slot. The PLC plans alternative programs for all of the other Scouts during this time, and the adult leaders are there to advise and supervise. We did this because we couldn't get the PLC to meet any other time on a consistent basis with everyone attending. We use all of the available BSA program Helps, Wood's Wisdom, Boy's Life, and other documentation. We plan the meetings around upcoming events (camping trips, summer camp, high adventure, fundraiser, training, etc.). We use the standard Troop meeting outline as a start, but certainly is subject to change for special meetings. sst3rd

Eagle69, The Blue Cards are official, because they have a place where the Council signs/stamps and dates them upon receipt. If the Council and Troop lose their copies of the Advancement/Progress Form, the Blue Card(s) is signed by the Scoutmaster, the Counselor, and the Council. Proof. We keep all of them on file. sst3rd

If you're refering to those generic meritbadge cards, they're just ornaments. The merit badge blue card is the official record. Those rank cards are the same thing. The requirements signed off in the handbook are official, nothing else. Both of these should be supported by the Advancement Report that the Troop submits prior to each Court Of Honor. My only exception is, if a Scout transfers to our unit and has lost everything and I can contact their old Council and get verification of any ranks and meritbadges through the old Troop's Advancement Reports, we'll build new records in a new handbook (replacement). sst3rd

And of course if all else fails, the Troop is supposed to be submitting the Advancement/Progress Report form recording every advancement (with dates) that a Scout makes. We also keep all of their records in folders in a locked drawer in a desk at the Scout building. We don't recognize any computer program print out. We recognize advancement signed off in the Scout Handbook, blue cards (and other merit badge paperwork from summer camps who don't use the blue card), and any of the copies of the Advancement/Progress Report forms (be it the Troop or Council copy), Nothing else !!!! No need to fill out and submit an Eagle Application, if you can't prove each and every rank and merit badge used with this documentation. sst3rd

I realize that my Woodbadge Course was only 14 years ago, but we had several female Scouters who were assigned to separate Patrols. We used the normal walled tents from summer camp, and camped together in normal Patrol sites. Yes, they slept in a tent by themselves, but smack tab in the middle of the Patrol campsite like everybody else. It was a non-issue. The issue was/is Scouting. We had a great time. We still keep in touch. sst3rd

Our Troop has attended Camp Daniel Boone a couple of times. It's been two years since we last went. They have a good Staff. Fairly limited on merit badges offered, however they may have improved the choices based on Troop evaluations. They have several high adventure options in addition to the traditional programs. Check their website. Sorry I don't know it off hand, though. Get a copy of their booklet. If not this year's, last year's. I will warn you of something though, their lake is extremely cold. You would have to pre-wet yourself from a brook coming off of a mountain, in an effort to lessen the shock. Seriously, alot of Scouts and Scouters backed out of the swimm checks that Sunday. At the adult leaders meeting that night, they begged the adult leaders to take their swim checks so the Scouts would. It truly was cold. sst3rd

Yes. It is our reponsibility. sst3rd

It might be the Virginia Creeper Trail. sst3rd

I thought the one I was thinking of was in northern Virginia, but it's not. I'm refering to the Virginia Creeper Trail, but it's in southwestern Virginia. I'm sure you'll get the right trail, but hey, look this one up and check the maps out for its grade. sst3rd