sst3rd

acco40, I'm not aware of a clear definition of "Scout camping" either, so I think since the Scoutmaster has to approve, he can take into account the specific Scout, his history, and "overall" camping involvement with Scouting. sst3rd

Here I go sticking my neck out again, but, our Troop has OA Elections annually just before our August trip. We have a Tap-Out/Call-Out Ceremony there(don't speak to me about"Tap-Out," I use in in conjunction with the term "Call-Out," give an old man a break) at our August trip. Anyway, on our Lodge election package, the last requirement for the Scout is the Scoutmaster's approval. Although I have heard of elections being run as ACCO40 describes, THIS IS INCORRECT! As I've just stated, a Scoutmaster's discretion is used during the nomination process, not after the election. One thing I do add as a Scoutmaster, is if a Scout meets the nomination for election process, I'll ask the Scout if he wants his name up for consideration. Occasionally, some don't. I abide by their wishes. Maybe next year. sst3rd

Here are mine: 1) One Scout gets nervous away from home, especially at night before bed. It makes him sick. He made it through Sunday night. 2) "Nervous" Scout got sick Monday night, but again stuck it out. Meanwhile, another Scout gets homesick, calls Dad, is picked up Tuesday afternoon (we're 5 hours away). Nervous Scout stays through the whole week. Homesick Scout and his parents ignore me at church today. 3) Our Troop found "Fred's Fortune." This is a week long Scavenger Hunt throughout camp. 4) Our only older Scout (SPL) helps out our younger Scouts much more than anticipated. 5) Most merit badges completed. 6) With a very young bunch, participated in Water Olympics, and came in third out of 28 Troops. 7) Campwide games Friday afternoon (as merit badge counselors are doing the paperwork), our Troop really didn't feel like participating, but our ASPL got it going. I'm very proud. 8) Friday night at the big campfire, I was singing in the Camp Powhatan Choir. We had Scouters, Scouts, and Staff. We were half way through Scout Vespers, when two F-16's buzzed the mountain tops on their way back to Norfolk. 9) Great weather, really good camp food, excellent programs, great Staff. There's more, but that's all for now. sst3rd

Laura, As always, lots of great advice offered. I have a few observations please. I just got back from my 16th year at a summer camp program as an adult leader. For the first time, a Scout went home. We were 5 hours away from home, and we used all of our Troop and Camp resources, but the boy said he was sick and had made up his mind. Tuesday afternoon, his father showed up, and home he went. We had great weather all week, but I have noticed in the past few years, that even on weekend trips, if it's bad weather (other than perfection), these Scouts get "down" real easy. And low morale is contagious. Sounds like you did it all right. I've occasionally lost it when a safety issue came up (oh the stories I could tell) that was in violation, but I'm human too. I think you're more concerned how the parents are taking this. Since I don't know what changes the Committee made, I can't go there, but the parents need to be more understanding of the responsibilities of adult Scout leaders. Why aren't these parents supporting you on these trips by being more directly involved? Registered, trained, and active, these parents should be, before thay dare come down on you and the current active adult leaders. Forgive yourself, move on, and use this incident as a recruiting tool for more adult leaders. You are right, the minimum required is not enough. You deserve not to be stressed out like this. You'll burn out quickly. sst3rd

I continue to learn alot about the Scouting program from all of you !!!! I've been in Scouting for many years, and it's nice to see the challenges of Scout Troops across the nation are very similar. If Bob wants to take a break or leave permanently, that's fine. I've long since known where to find answers to my BSA questions. It's just fun to watch everybody react to Bob's statements and responses. They're clear, concise, blunt, but most of all, correct and verifiable. He refers you to the document and page number for "crying out loud." sst3rd

After reading all of these "points" and "counterpoints," I truly believe I'm hearing agreements all across the board, with the flexibility to apply it on a Troop by Troop basis. The ONE clear disagreement, is in reference to the New Scout Patrol. I agree with Bob, that if a Troop has the resources for a New Scout Patrol (trained Troop Guide, trained Assistant Scoutmaster) and gets a regular and steady stream of graduating Webolos Scouts and some of their friends, and executes the NSP program as prescribed, it could work. Unfortunately, there are too many variables, and most Troops I'm aware of can't run a successful NSP. For our Troop, we have no graduating Webolos Scouts. Our Pack is inactive, and has been for over five years. Our COR is working with me and others, to re-establish the Pack. Yes, in the meantime, our Troop is actively trying to recruit Webolos graduates from other Packs, using all of the appropriate methods, but it ain't making our Troop too popular. We also continue to pick up new Scouts, as our current Scouts invite them into an excellent and active program. So, to hear all of the debates about how to organize these new and experienced Scouts, we'd like to have those problems. sst3rd

Bob, you beat me to it. Laurie, It all sounds good, but emphasis needs to be more toward his getting First Class in the first year. All of this merit badge stuff is diverting his attention from this. In the mean time, most summer camps have a program designed for first year Scouts. These programs have different names, but are designed to support the Troop and their new Scouts in working on these first few ranks. What's he taking at summer camp? It should be this first year program. Just my thoughts,,,,,,,,,,,, sst3rd

Packsaddle, A couple of years ago, I bought a new turntable. I also have lots of wax to play. Everyone in my family has given me their albums because they can't play theirs anymore. Let's see: lots of Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Maynard Ferguson, Jim Reeves, Mountain, Creedance Clearwater Revival,,,,,, The sound is very different than CD's. The audio range is different, and yes except for the occassional snap, crackle, or pop, I like it better. But you've got to have the system to play it on. sst3rd

Seals and Crofts, America, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and sometimes Young, John Denver, Carpenters, Grand Funk Railroad, Cat Stevens, Beatles, Alabama, James Taylor, Jim Croce, Steppenwolf, Eddie Arnold, Jim Reeves, Ray Charles, Doobie Brothers, Bruce Hornsby, etc.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and much, much, more......

I agree with you Barry. Friday's are the worst of the two. They've had such an active Saturday, they "ask" to go to bed. Friday nights are busy for us, as setting up camp pushes the limits sometimes. Our older Scouts go to their tents first, but most of the younger Scouts are wound too tight, and very excited about the trip. It takes patience on my part (I'm the SM), but eventually I coax them to their tents and allow them to talk abit. They know that no matter how late they stay up, 7:00 AM comes no matter what. That tends to get them to quiet down (that and extra Troop chores and less play time). sst3rd

Padre, No, you're not going to get any heat. Sounds like the problem is your wife. Woodbadge ain't a cult, and it should not have changed her. Brownsea ain't a secret. Nothing in Scouting, OA or training, for youth and adults, is a secret. Yes, until your wife gets it together, you better leave the program. NOT WHAT YOU WERE EXPECTING TO HEAR ???? On a different thought, I've had single mom Scouts for years. The moms became very dedicated leaders. If the appropriate opportunity presents itself (and it has twice for us), I will discuss the OA with the adult (mom)way in advance. If they felt uncomfortable about entering the OA before their son, we dropped it. In both cases, the sons eventually were elected to the OA, and their moms soon followed. To me, it was common courtesy. sst3rd

Willysjeep, It still sounds to me that you're walking on eggshells for some reason. I didn't catch if you're a youth or an adult member, and currently at what position. If you go to the Committee (I'm a Scoutmaster), and try to get this pushed through, I know I wouldn't appreciate it. This is NOT what the Committee does. It supports the PLC's planned program with the SM and ASM's. I know that our Council doesn't allow tham on their properties. Agreed that I can't find it in writing anywhere, but it's just not that important to our Scouting program. Folding knives have worked fine for years. Many years ago in this very same Council, I was a Scout, and we all had sheath knives. The joke was, that you could tell how long you've been a Scout, by the size of the knife. Momma tended to get her new Scout a machete (yes, I'm exagerating) to use, and then as the Scout got older, they realized that smaller and smaller knifes worked just as good. Back to topic, the PLC is the place to start. Your Scoutmaster would be in attendance, and I think if there is a real interest in adding the sheath knife to the Totin' Chip program, I can't see why he would differ, but he may bring up his reasons. Please listen. Just remember as you camp around, some areas don't allow sheath knives, and you're Scoutmaster is responsible for all actions of the Troop. He signs the permits. Maybe he just wants one less thing to worry about. Is it REALLY that important? sst3rd

Same old, same old.........nothing new here. Repeat, repeat, repeat. On the other hand, who gets to determine this great multi-cultural balance? Why can't people hang out with those who are similar to them (race, culture, religion, career, hobbies, sports)? WHY OH WHY does everything have to be mixed, merged, thrown together, and who gets to say when enough is enough ??????

Right or wrong. Rules or no rules. What I seen in our area is a direct connection with the Pack and Troop sponsored by the same institution. Our Council has set up the majority of the units that way. Yes, there are exceptions; Troops with no Packs, Packs with no Troops. However, Troop and/or Pack leaders have forged relationships over the years. Where I've seen the exceptions, are Webolos leaders who steer their Scouts to another Troop other than the directly connected one; Webolos leaders who visit several Troops; and parents who are aware that they can take their Webolos Scout anywhere "THEY" want to take them.

Ed, Prayers for all, from your Scouting family in central Virginia. sst3rd

I replied to your OA thread, so now I know you're an ASM. Is the SM trained? I agree with all of the others. The SM is in charge of training the youth leaders in how to execute the Troop program. That certainly includes a regularly scheduled PLC meeting. Ideas are presented, discussed, and then voted on. Your Scouts don't know what they're missing. If the SM won't tell 'em, you have my permission (I'm a SM). sst3rd

To be quite honest, a lot of Eagle Scouts disappear when they turn 18. College, a job, military, just general adult stuff, and off they go. Our kits don't have the Eagle knot, and I think that's fine. When they come back as adult leaders (sooner or later), someone will get them their knot. sst3rd

All good advice. If the Chapter is active, there should be an Election Committee. Your OA Lodge and/or District may have a website by now, and you can get info off of that, or an E-mail address to send your request to. If not, call your Council. They should have the info to give you. Sounds like the Scoutmaster needs to be reminded of his OA responsibilities, but come to think of it, is HE an OA member? If not, maybe that's why he's not supporting it. If he meets the OA requirements, have the Troop Committee and ASM's work through the process to get him appointed (adults aren't elected). Maybe this could be done at the same time that your youth have their election. SagerScout, I know I've seen your name around abit, but I couldn't tell from this post if you are a registered/trained Scout leader and in the OA. Could the SM be a bit threaten by you pushing this? Yes, the Scouts deserve to have regular annual OA elections, but proceed appropriately. Sounds like you have a couple of good candidates. Keep us posted. sst3rd

So, back to the topic. I'll offer my neck to be chopped. I've attended summer camp for many years. Most camps had no phone(s) available for Scouts or Scouters to make phone calls, period (non emergency). Troops made sure programs were "busy" and that Scouts were not thinking of home, but of Scouting adventure. Over the years I've noticed camps making a phone or two available to Scouts and Scouters, but common sense prevails where the Troop leaders made these available only in dire need, yes to be determined by the leader. Experience tells us that if a Scout calls home, it usually increases home sickness, not decrease. Thus, our Troop has kept phones off limits. Now with the availability of cell phones, we still don't allow there use unless necessary. Adults only, and out of sight and sound of Scouts. No Scouts can bring cell phones, period. It does nothing but cause problems and creates an atmosphere of favortism. There is simply no way their use can be fairly monitored. It's kind of like that old adage of, "if you bring candy, you must bring enough for everyone in the Troop." No cell phones, no phone cards, no use of camp phones. That's discussed up front. Letters to and from camp, are okay and encouraged.

We have a small Troop with limited resources, so I'll approach each as such. A)From the beginning. Facilities, equipment, money, transportation, qualified trip leaders/guides..... but this should have been planned at the Annual Program meeting last August. B)No input unless topics are inappropriate. C)Limited by adult leadership, but could use the opportunity to draw in other qualified adult leaders. D) Got the leadership???? E) Will the change mess up the established Troop budget? F) Compromise, because they're going to get up at 7:00 AM anyway(standard operating procedure). G) Sorry, again limited by adult leadership, and offer alternatives. H)Inappropriate and explain. I)It's a moot point, and if it still comes up, have a quick conference with SPL. Drop it as quickly as possible. I'm not sure why I bothered responding, Bob's just going to shoot it down. Hey, I'm okay with that. Life's too short, and our Troop will continue as is anyway............

Maybe I've approached the Scoutmaster's Conference incorrectly all of these years, and prevented the Scout from opening up to me. I preface each Scoutmaster's Conference by saying that this discussion is between myself, the Scout, God, and his parents. I certainly have heard of Scouts opening up to other adult leaders more than myself (the SM). I need to remind those other leaders of our responsibilities just in case. Good discussion everyone. sst3rd

Here's the hard and fast answer. Merit badge Pow Wows from the District or Council do not count as Troop/Patrol activities, as they are designed for individual Scouts. However, as stated by purcelce, if they attend this activity or any Scout activity as a Troop or Patrol, that's where it can count. So, if a Patrol or Troop see's a merit badge(s) that may not be often offered within their Troop program, they organize and go. This activity would count.

I kept wondering if this topic would make it on board here. I'm very disappointed by the name change. Once again, Scouting is moving towards the lowest common denominator. Let's try to please everyone, and in not doing so, at least we won't have that excuse. Tonight's local TV news showed Khalfani (NAACP) gleefully talking about this Council being progressive, and I got to watch a few black Cub Scouts have their Council patches cut and ripped off of their uniforms by their leaders. It inspires much Honor. This move will NOT increase minority recruitment in this Council. If blacks want to join Scouting, it will be because of the program, not the name of the Council. The Hispanics and Asians in the Richmond area (as there are large communities) aren't involved, as their cultures have little room for Scouting (yes, there are exceptions, just not as a whole). So the executive board made a decision. Great. Love those decisions when it's the Scouters at the unit level that's bringing the program to the kids. How come we weren't involved? I guess we're just not that #$%@*& important. Names for Councils and Districts of the BSA will be offensive to some one at some time. Let's go ahead and simplify everything. Use the Council, District and Unit numbers only. I'm guessing the Stonewall Jackson Area Council, up in Staunton Virginia, are doing the same thing. The bottom line????? Money, for crying out loud.

True story. One of my ASM's enjoyed being a Provisional Scoutmaster for a week out at summer camp each year. Several years ago midweek, a Scout asked, bugged, and then begged to call his Mom. He said that there was something he wanted her to bring him from home. He finally relented, and allowed the Scout to use the one public phone down by the admin building. After about an hour, the Scout didn't return to the campsite. He checked around, but couldn't find him, so he had the Camp execute a "Blue Dog" alert campwide. Still no Scout. He decided he needed to alert the Mom (single parent), and he called her at home. She answers, and is giving the alarming news. She took it better than expected, as she tells my friend that her son was at home lying on the floor watching television. sst3rd

From the beginning, 38 years, we've met throughout the year. May through September our camping trips are at a lake, river, or bay, thus there's fishing , swimming, boating, water skiing, canoeing, and all of the aquatic programs BSA provides. Our Scouts plan it that way, and look forward to it. We don't skip a beat. It's too hard to start it up again. I've seen these difficulties with Troops and Packs in our area that take the summer off. It's like starting the unit from scratch!!!! sst3rd