sst3rd

Just asking....................... I don't have my insignia guide in front of me, so I'll ask here. Are there such a thing as BSA official black loops to wear at funerals? I've never seen them mentioned here, and I am aware of a Scouter who has a set he wears at Scouter funerals. If they're not official and he made them (which would be rather simple to do), is this a big error worth making a fuss about? sst3rd

After avoiding holidays, school events, church events, OA events, District and Council events, there are very few weekends left to choose from. So, we make it out 11 times a year (Friday night to Sunday afternoon) and then summer camp (7 days and 6 nights). I have a question slightly off topic. Our Troop's weekend camping trips have always been Friday night to Sunday afternoon (around 4:00 PM). I've been told that there is a trend for Troops to weekend camp Saturday mornings to Sunday afternoons (maybe around 12:00 noon). So, is our Troop bucking the trend? sst3rd

40 years

46

Cell phones became a problem with the Scouts. I "asked" that they not be present on any Scout functions. Exceptions can be made, but no one's asked yet. My dog collects cell phones. He used to collect flashlights (that were constantly being shown in other people's faces at night). That stopped.

Dave, The Ed and Bob Show has been a long time favorite of mine, but is getting very predictable. Ratings are starting to slip, and with "sweeps" coming up so soon. Someone stated that if all leaders of this board read, accepted, and executed from the BSA references, there'd be no need for this Forum. Bob thought that if we all did this, it would at least cut down on the traffic. Some leaders, old and new, may not have access to current references, so why not ask HERE. Yes, Bob, we risk getting bad info but we will/should always verify it later. I know I do. Anyway, to have traditions (Ed) of Scouting shot down by the current regs (Bob) of Scouting, does allow me to review our Troop's long time program. Honestly, we've had to make some corrections. I give the credit to both Ed and Bob, for creating the dialog that I can understand, and take back to our Troop leaders, youth and adult. Thanks guys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, sst3rd

To All; Clearer heads prevail. I should have seen that one coming. Makes perfect sense to me now. Sometimes you've got to take a step back...................... Thanks, sst3rd

I couldn't find it on the "Unit Fundraising" section, so I'd thought I'd post it here. After the Troop annual budget is established, whose responsible for finding and researching fundraisers for the Troop to participate in? I can see the Committee finding two or three fundraisers and then presenting to them to the PLC, since they have to rally the Scouts. The Committee would have to deal with the appropriateness of the fundraiser and all of the paperwork. That's got to be for the adults, right? I have a Committee that thinks the Scouts should find the fundraiser and then ask for the Committee's approval and support. Thoughts?????????????? sst3rd (andy)

Bob, You are right on the money in your response to my posting. I have a revolving Committee and sometimes it's hard to have members for the BOR who are trained and experienced enough to review the book in that manner. I do it (SM), so they can concentrate on what I consider to be their main objective, getting to know the Scout, asking well rounded questions, and supporting the Scout through this process. It works for us. I will respond to this subject no more. sst3rd

When our Pack was active and participated in the annual School Night For Scouting programs, I was always concerned about how to approach the new parents that smoked. Our Troop and Pack have a dedicated building for our programs, and incredibly sensitive smoke detectors. I am the SM, but also oversee the building's usage and upkeep for the church, so I tend to be at several of the Pack meetings with the new Cubs and their parents, to introduce myself and explain the building rules set by the church. I've never had to put up No Smoking signs, and I've never had to ask anyone to step outside. In fact, in my many years of Scouting, the smokers have usually asked me where an appropriate location would be. Maybe it was my carrying around that chemical fire extinguisher, hmmmmmmmmmmm. sst3rd

I thought it's been so simple over the years. As the SM, I know who are the qualified youth and adult leaders who can sign off requirements. When I review the Scout's book during the Scoutmaster's Conference and before the Board of Review, I can catch any problems at that point and advise corrective actions. Questions like "Who taught you your knots for this rank?" are interesting conversation starters, but not BOR questions. The requirements are signed off. Move on from there. You people are getting a bit tedious. sst3rd

Thanks to all for your thoughts. As stated, he was an excellent Scout. He works very hard at his academics, and along with his job at the neighborhood grocery story, I'm sure these are his focus now. College is looming. I talk with him frequently and encourage him to start attending some meetings as time allows. I emphasize that there are no pressures attached. We can certainly use his talents with our younger Scouts at meetings that he can attend. This will be my last response, and again, thank you all for your insights, but if this inactive Eagle wants to go on a camping trip, he needs to start attending some (not neccesarily every) Troop meetings BEFORE he just shows up and wants to attend a particular campout (that he had no input nor made an effort to plan and support). In reading all of the posts, the spirit of your messages are very similar. The Scout comes first, if he decides to. Roll On........... Thanks again, sst3rd (Andy)

It's all in the Scout and Patrol Leaders handbooks (and others). Even if a potential new Scout is going on his first trip, I'll suggest that the PL pair him up with a Patrol member and his position (Cheermaster, Skitmaster, Grubmaster, etc..). It works for us. Even this visitor feels needed and part of the team (Patrol). sst3rd

Bob, No, I didn't receive your E-mail. I delete everything that I am not familiar with. Sorry. Rooster7 1) Yes, he is a decent kid. 2) There are no ground rules, just common since. If he doen't regularly attend the meetings, he has no idea what the camping trip is about or trying to accomplish. I will not allow Scouts to pick and choose their activities. Period. He's registered, but hasn't paid his dues for almost a year. The last couple of years he was a PL, SPL, and then I asked him to take an assignment as a JASM. We discussed and agreed upon his duties right after he received his Eagle, but he still quit. I will not allow him to set "that" type of an example. 3) His past behavior is fine. He simply quit. The Committee was and is aware of the situation and they agree. Sets the wrong example particularly coming from a former SPL, Eagle, and OA member. 4) I've kept in touch with this Eagle, as he works at a local grocery store. I've always encouraged him to come back. Early on I mentioned the County Award if he came back, but I also understood that he might be too busy. No fuss on my part. 5) His mother (and father) have long been a plus to our program. No problems at all, until she planned her son's Eagle Ceremony on the same weekend as a very inportant OA Ordeal that she knows our Troop OA members always attend. I admit, that bothered me. Several of us traveled to and from (an hour)the OA function to present her son his Eagle Ceremony. 6) He's not interested. If he is allowed to come and go as he pleases, he still will not become involved with the Troop meetings. If he's allowed to attend as he pleases, our youth leaders will assume it's alright to do the same. It will not be allowed. Folks. Thanks so much for your thoughts. He's a good young man and Eagle. We're very proud of him except that he's not giving back to his own Troop. As far as he may have a bad taste in his mouth for Scouting in the future, that's self inflicted. He's a senior, and will graduate next June, as 4 more of his fellow Scouts (and possible Eagles). He keeps in touch through them, and I talk with him fairly often at the grocery store. He is an incredible student, so I know a lot of time is spent there. If he starts coming to the meetings and helps our Scouts, he can go on the next trip. He knows this. No slackers allowed. You're part of the solution, or part of the problem. We need youth leaders who will lead. You can't lead if you're not there. sst3rd

I need input, and I don't mind sticking my neck out to be chopped off, so here goes. Our Troop has as many traditions as other Troops. We've been around for 40 years. Some traditions come and go. We have a steady stream of Eagles, but sometimes they appear to group themselves. Our last Eagle (also in the OA), was about a year ago. His parents were on the Committee. As soon as his ceremony was over with, he quit. One fellow Scout goes to his school and asked why he never came back. He said that he was burn't out. His mother stayed active for a while and we appreciated that. She too said that her son was simply burn't out on Scouts. This board talks about how you can't add or subtract from the requirements, but I can assure you, this young man met his requirements and no more. He was not burn't out. It's been almost a year, and his mother stoped by a meeting, and asked our CC where her son's flag was, and why he hadn't received the Board of Supervisor's (county) proclamation? Our CC explained that these items were bonuses to the Eagle award, and we really no longer had the connection to the U. S. Capitol flags, etc.. And that since he quit Scouts directly after his ceremony, we felt he didn't deserve our extra efforts for these recognitions. We did give her the option of getting these items herself, there's nothing to stop her. This Scout went on a Troop trip with us this past April. Frankly if I had known, he would not have been allowed to come. It's one of the purely fun trips. His hasn't given to the Troop, he doesn't deserve the privledge. It did, however, give me the opportunity to talk with him about all of this stuff, so there is no way he didn't know his situation. Yet, his mother comes to his defense to demand a flag and the Board's proclamation. He tried to come on our annual August trip that includes our OA Call-Out, I didn't allow it (SM). My take is that our adult leaders are there to support the "active" Scouts, and don't need to worry about this Eagle who quit. And yes, as our current 4 Life Scouts make their decisions to earn the rank of Eagle or not, we're going to try to re-establish our connection to those flags and make sure they get their county proclamations. They will stay involved with their Troop. This other Scout chose not to. Again, he made the choice. So, opinions please. How do you do it? sst3rd

Bob, You and several other regulars approach things consistently. The program is there. Execute it. Train the youth leaders, etc.. I enjoy reading these threads, but can't post because I get beat to the punch. There truly is nothing worth arguing about, but I like the dicussions. Use the program. A point to make about the percentages. About 20 years ago, I was told the percentage of Eagles was just above 2%. If it has steadily increased over the years, I would prefer to credit this increase to more quality programs and increased encouragement. Eagle mills are a great excuse for the increase and do exist, but I would also prefer to credit the increase to more dedicated and trained adult leaders. sst3rd

My 1963 40 hp Envinrude outboard motor. It's outlived three boats, and has been sank in saltwater once.

I don't understand why this is NOT getting through to you, SPL. It is not for you and/or the PLC to make up rules for the Committee to vote on, etc.. The Scoutmaster and/or the Committee Chairperson is responsible for the operation of the Troop organization through leadership training. If a parent (in this case this woman) wishes to stop by a meeting or even go on a camping trip, she can. She does NOT have to be a registered leader in ANY way. HOWEVER, the SM and CC are charged with making sure these visitors clearly know where they can be, and what they can do. This is obviously not happening, and this is where the problem is. It's really that simple. For you and the PLC, it is a moot point. The SM and the CC need to get off their cans and take care of this problem NOW, small Troop or not; politics are not. SPL, operate the Troop as you have been trained. You and the PLC need to ignore her, walk away from her, leave her in the room by herself, politely talk around her, leave her alone, whatever it takes, until she gets the idea, OR your SM and CC take care of this. Do NOT let this stop you from growing this Troop's program and membership. You appear to be a dedicated youth leader. Go for it !!!! sst3rd

Has to have been 15 years ago when a lot of these "activities" were still acceptable as paying your dues; we went to a big District Camporee. Friday night, after the campsites were up, all of the adult leaders were going campsite to campsite visiting fellow Scouters and getting warm-ups on their coffee. A really special Scoutmaster (Woodbadge sponsor) friend of mine poured the coffee, and we were catching up on each other's Troops (we attended several summer camps together). A young Scout from another Troop approached our fire, and asked permission to enter our camp. He was looking for a lefthanded smoke shifter. He had been to several camps already, and was looking tired and frustrated. Nobody had one, or had already loaned it out. So, Paul asked his SPL if theirs was packed in the Staff kitchen box. SPL said it was, and smiling broadly, got it for the young Scout. Paul (the SM) asked the Scout to please have his Scoutmaster return it when done. About 15 minutes later, this young Scout's Scoutmaster showed up with the "shifter", and was pretty upset. He wanted the joke to go on longer than it had, and that they were teaching the boy a lesson. When Paul asked what lesson was that, the old Scoutmaster stormed out of the campsite. Hazing is "victim defined." If the victim, in any way, is made to feel uncomfortable or threatened. It is wrong. This is lowering everything to the lowest common denominator, but that's where it has to go. There are plenty of fun,exciting, and appropriate activities to do. You just have to find them. On a slightly different note, I took Woodbadge back in the 80's. Every skit that was performed by the Staff and later the participants, are now considered inappropriate and can't be used. We use our imaginations and come up with "better" ones. That's the Scouting Spirit. sst3rd

Single Seat Tooling: was my prior career in graphics manufacturing. 3rd was the shift I was on. After over 21 years, I got laid off and they moved the company to China. After over two years of full time school and being laid off, I got a new job in aluminum extrusion, but still on 3rd shift. Hey, it's a job. I'm one of the lucky ones.

Has anyone mentioned "Airplane" yet?

Okay, folks. I got on kinda early tonight. Went to groups.msn/BoyScouts. Couldn't find the "chat" room. If someone can give me more specifics, I'll eventually get there. Thanks, sst3rd

Bob White and Fat Old Guy, Thanks for your input and suggestions. The PL is at church camp this week in Philidelphia (Mom, Dad, and Sis are in attendance), so we'll see what shacks out when he gets back. His ASPL will do fine in the meantime. We have a camping trip in less than three weeks. That will tell the tale. sst3rd

I guess the point of this thread is in its "subject" title. GS Gold vs BS Eagle. It certainly has brought some predictable responses. The programs don't compare. Their rank programs don't compare. Period. As stated several times prior, make a copy of both program's Gold/Eagle requirements, and give it to anyone who wants it. kcolarusso, Your initial request was looking for "facts." The lists of requirements will cover that. Your need for opinions has also been addressed. Since you are asked your opinion almost everyday, give it. And then hand them copies of both rank requirements. Better have plenty of copies. sst3rd

Something along these lines, but decisions I'll have to make next year as SM. First time in 16 trips, a Scout went home. He said he was sick, we took him to the Health Lodge. No problems. We went through the whole routine, and finally called his parents Monday night. The Scout long since had made up his mind to go home, sick or not. Parents upset, but also very surprised. Dad came up Tuesday afternoon (5 hours away) and took him home. The Troop had a great week. However, at the following Monday night meeting, the Scout showed up, but no parents. To make matters worse, this Scout was to take over as the Patrol Leader (we have elections at the end of the year and just before summer camp). We asked to talk to Mom at the end of the meeting. We were looking for further explanations why the Scout got homesick. Other than the parents being very surprised and upset at spending over $300.00 for the camp, they couldn't figure anything more out. I want to note that this Scout attended summer camp for the first time the prior year, and did very well for a first timer. The Mom said that next year Dad will have to attend. That's the comment I want addressed here. Should I require the Dad to join and be trained as a leader by next summer (I doubt that he will, we've tried to get both parents involved, they're too busy), or simply let him accompany us to baby sit his son (he will not interfere with the program, but observe). Also, the Scouts in the Patrol aren't to keen about this Scout taking over as the new Patrol Leader. They think that by his leaving summer camp, he was quitting the team (their words, not mine). Opinions please????? Mom didn't understand why I was concerned about their son becoming the PL. To her, this event was just "one" thing. What's the big deal. And if I wouldn't allow him to become the PL, she would move him. I countered with my concern of her son walking out of any Scout event at anytime, just because he wanted to, and by becoming the PL, why would that make any difference. sst3rd