sst3rd

asm206, I respect your thought, but these responsibilities are covered elsewhere already. 1) This should already be happening within the Troop program using requirements needed for Star, Life, and Eagle ranks. Troops also should have traditional service projects already going (we do anyway). So, instead of asking that they "do more", Troops that have no traditional service projects need to "start". Again, that's a Troop's responsibility, and the last thing a troop needs is another official "advising" that they "do more". 2) Troops can mingle with non scout groups if an opportunity arises, but if you have a "full" program for the Troop and Patrols, my question is, "why"? 3) That's already handled on the unit, district, and council levels. If you want public relations for something, you have to go out there and do it. BSA can reduce positions that aren't useful or being utilized fully. BSA doesn't need to add another position that "someone" needs to recruit for and train. There's plenty of positions across the board that are empty. Let's fill them first (or get rid of them). sst3rd

BSACHAPLAIN, Congratulations on a great opportunity. Incorporate as much tradition in this unique course as possible. The participants will be the better for it short term and long term. Woodbadge Staffers have long had a poor reputation in our Council for their big headedness, big ego, and big bad attitude. Since Woodbadge is the only place they can display these lousy attributes, they pretty much get ignored everywhere else. Remember, and I know you know this, it's for better quality adult leaders for the Scouts. FOR THE SCOUTS!!! That should be a Woodbadge Staffer's primary goal. Anything else, doesn't count !!!! sst3rd

Firecrafter, You said, "The Advancement Chair in our group has records that say MBs were completed at summer camp (computer print out), so it's not a question IF scouts completed the MB." Now you're saying, "Our AC does keep a record for each scout, but in this case the MB cards were lost before they could be recorded by the AC." From the very beginning, our Troop adult leadership always took summer camp paperwork to look over and review with the Scouts. And this paperwork stays with the adult leadership and is recorded and put in each Scouts file back home. I'm old school too, but all the Scouts are going to remember, is that they did the work, and are now penalized. I doubt many will want to repeat the work just to be taught responsibility. Pick your battles. A Scout is Helpful. sst3rd

As a Scoutmaster, I don't usually care for computer programs, but if the Advancement Chairman has already recorded these merit badges, he is verifying and legitimizing what happened at summer camp. That information can be used to record on the Advancement Report. This Advancement Report is as good as any missing documentation if ever needed. So, this problem is a "non-issue." Our summer camp gives a package of completed and not quite completed merit badge documentation to the Troops, at the Friday night campfire. This stuff never should really get in the hands of the Scouts. Our Troop keeps folders for each Scouts advancement documentation, in a desk drawer at the meeting place. Collect all of this stuff from the Scouts, and keep it for them. You'll be glad you did. For crying out loud Scoutmaster, take a chill pill and move on. sst3rd

scout-parent, You'll get a lot of advise on this one. Having only your point of view of the situation, limits the scope of my thoughts. From what you've stated, 1) How long has the SM been dissatisfied with these leader's leadership. He should have had a series of SM Conferences as soon as he saw any problems. 2) You mentioned training. Did these PL's get any? SM's are responsible for leadership training whether it happens on the Troop, District, or Council levels. 3) A Troop constitution is not necessary. Lot's of Troop's have By-Laws, they too are unnecessary. But I can't fault Troops that feel they need certain things in writing, it just makes things more complicated. For the record, I'm a SM, and our Troop has no By-Laws and we've been in existance for almost 40 years. 4) A SM is not all powerful. Only in extreme cases he should make big decisions as these. 5) No, he can't force Scouts to join a Venture Patrol. All PL's whose terms expire or maybe is asked to step down as PL for whatever reason, usually simply stay in their Patrols. No, there's no documentation for me to refer you to, it's just simply done that way. He should have been elected from his Patrol, thus he is still a member of that Patrol when his leadership is completed. Sad that this had to happen. All of this was avoidable with early Scoutmaster Conferences and youth leadership training. I don't know if there are other Troops close by, but I'd take all of these Scouts to another Troop. Since he would like to work this out with this Troop, I wish him the best. Since you are drawing a conclusion about all of the PL's that were fired didn't have ASM's for parents, you'll need to take that to the Committee if you want to go further with this. Sounds like a big Troop, but the SM does not have the right to remove all of these PL's. How long were their terms? How close were they to finishing up their terms? Is he having these Patrols elect new PL's? Or is he appointing new PL's to finish these terms? Maybe he's letting the APL's take over? Maybe not, because these bad PL's were supposed to have chosen their APL's and the SM probably wouldn't want these Scouts to take over their Patrols. I'd go to the Committee for answers. Do it respectfully, and expect answers in a reasonable time frame. sst3rd

dlw, Please go ahead and quit. A phone call to someone(whoever that might be) will work and be appropriate. That gets you off the hook. And sure, if you don't want, or can't make a phone call, just don't show up anymore. That gets the message across loud and clear!!!! sst3rd

scoutldr, No offense taken. This is strictly a shot in the dark. We've done this in the past to try to reconnect with Webolos who've never tried the Troop. We've had some success. No, our Scouts don't know these young men. We've asked. Mike F. and scoutldr, Peer to peer is the best way to go (and we continue to have success with that method, but we're trying to bring Scouting to those that have no peers in Scouting. You've got to break through somehow. And since they at least tried the Cub Scouts...... More thoughts are still welcome. Thanks, sst3rd

Our associated Pack, and several others in the immediate community, have Scouts that have become inactive in the last 6 months or so, and have turned 11 years of age. I'm gathering this info, and wish to send a "short" and "to the point" recruitment letter to see if we can get them back involved in Scouting on the Troop level (this is a PLC idea). My question is, do we address the letter to the potential Scout, or to the parent(s)? If it should go to the parent(s), then we can be a bit more detailed about the Scout Troop and its activities. If we should address the letter to the potential Scout, I would want a more direct and short letter. Possibly we could address the envelope to the "parents of," and then include a short letter to both the parent(s) and the potential Scout? Your thoughts, please. sst3rd (SM)

hunting wolf, Our Lodge Election Committee is not involved with Ordeal Elections. Ordeal elections are done on the Chapter level coordinated by the Chapter Advisor. Ordeal information is then sent to our Lodge Registrar who deals with all of the paperwork. Our Lodge (coordinating with all of our Chapters) sets no artificial election time period. We have Ordeals in September, March, and May/June, with a Fellowship in October. Elections are encouraged, promoted, and supported all year long, by our Chapter Election Committees throughout our Lodge. That's how our Lodge is executing Chapter 2 of the National OA's Guide to Inductions. Get over yourself. sst3rd

I don't know where you folks are getting your info, and don't ask me to produce documentation, but elections are done by the "Chapter" Election Committee, and can be and should be done at any time of the calendar year. Our Lodge has Ordeals in September, March, and May/June (depending on local school calendar). One election per Troop per calendar year, are allowed. I have never heard of a Lodge Election Committee. It all happens on the Chapter level. Call your Chapter Advisor, and/or call your Chapter Election Committee Advisor, or somehow get in touch with the youth OA Chapter Election Committee Chairman, and schedule an election at your Troop's convenience year round. Please keep in mind, that from the date of your Troop's annual OA Election, is when your Scouts and/or Scouters have a year's worth of Ordeals to complete their one. WWW sst3rd

I was giving an example of an extreme situation that recently occurred. I didn't ask for advice or direction. There is much more to the situation than was listed. No, I will not be apoligizing to anyone. Our adult leaders all work very hard for our unit, and things are great. This Dad has been smothering his son since he brought him from Webolos. Dad interferes in the Patrol and Troop functions, and won't let his son be a Scout. We've all tried to get Dad away from his son. His PL has asked several times for the Dad to leave the Patrol meetings and campsites. And, his son has not completed his leadership requirement for Star. He procrastinated on this. Dad knows this, and is fighting me for it anyway. That's why the Scout isn't getting a Conference or Board just yet. So much more to tell, but you don't need to know! I will respond no more to this subject. sst3rd

Bob, No, I don't think you're meaning to be unkind or discourteous. See, you thought I was going to try and defend myself. sst3rd

I had a "sail." He was a Webolos leader with his son's Pack, and in touring around to area Troops, brought himself and his son to our Troop about a year and a half a go(I'm the current SM). We talked as to what he was interested in supporting, and he wanted to be an ASM to work with the New Scout Patrol (with his son). This was fine by me, and he said that he had taken Scoutmaster training in his last year as a Webolos leader anticipating moving to a Troop. Things worked fine until last week at the meeting. His son is working towards his Star, and all of a sudden Dad is pushing his son to see me for a Scoutmaster's Conference every week. With the Annual Planning meeting, a special camp out, and other stuff, I've delayed this Scout's SM Conference for a couple of weeks. Our next Court of Honor is in three weeks, plenty of time, but this Dad says he wants the Conference NOW, and we got in an argument. Thank goodness it was after the meeting, and only the CC was with us, and the Scout was inside the building, as we were outside. He raised his voice and said that he felt we were showing favoritism as another Scout got his Star "quickly," and his son is having to wait. Seriously, I had no idea he felt this way, and I was wondering why his wife had come to the meeting. He let me have it. He wasn't happy with a lot of things. I suggested he go to the Committee with his concerns. I've worked very hard for a long time, in recruiting folks for the Committee and ASM's. Most have taken training, and things are doing well. New Scouts from the neighborhood, as well as graduating Webolos, then all of a sudden this happens. He is smothering his son, and the Scout can't experience the program because of it. We talked with this Dad in the past about this, but after a short time, he starts jumping in with his son again. Needless to say, this "sail" has become an "anchor." I'm waiting for the next meeting to see if they show up. I feel sorry for the Scout, because no matter where they go, the Scoutmaster and Scout determine when he is ready for his rank advancement, not the parent. sst3rd

I can only tell you what we've done with our ribbons. Our Troop is only 40 years old, but like you said, you can't have all of those old ribbons on the flag, so there for a while, we just stuffed them in a desk drawer. About ten years ago, I got them all out. Our Troop does have a small building to meet in, so I divided these ribbons by the year, grouped them, and hung them along the wall next to the ceiling in sequential order. Now, everyone can follow our activities through the years from the beginning. sst3rd

Bring all of this down to the unit level. You know, the real world. Adding to the program without taking anything away. So, where are these additional dedicated volunteers (and other resources) coming from? You still don't get it. But that's okay. Keep dreaming. Really done this time. sst3rd

So you guys want Scouting to be relevant and marketable by being all things to all people. This is such a joke. Gee, since I can't use philosophical blather," I almost don't have much to say, except, who says we have to "reach as many boys as possible." Please list BSA documentation. If you haven't figured out the obvious yet, the Scout age population is growing, but the diversity of that growth also is growing, and the cultures of this diversity has never been exposed to a youth led program like the BSA. It takes much more effort to break through culture barriers, to make Scouting a plausible choice for their sons. Scouting changed over the years, some good, some not so good. The BSA program is extremely flexible. Oh, but let's keep changing it to where it doesn't even resemble what it was, just so more folks join. Hey, change is good. Let's have lots of local options. But then, it wouldn't be the BSA. So, here's an option you forgot to mention. Why don't you guys create your own "movement" and make all of the changes you want. How does that make you feel????????? I'm done here. Have at it. sst3rd

Dan, "Marketable" and "relevant," aren't related. "Advances the ball." Huh? "Influential voice in modern society? For over 95 years. The closer a unit (Pack, Troop, and Crew) comes to running all of the available BSA programs, the more "Scouting is a real and attractive choice." Current BSA programs are excellent, but you've got to have the resources to run as many of them as possible. The bottom line is clear in this 21st century, there are many more "choices" out there then ever before. Scouting can't satisfy all of them. I don't ever expect it to. sst3rd

Nutiket, I don't doubt your Scouting Spirit. I actually am one of those old Scouters. Here's my problem, and I could use your specific assistance. I'm the SM, and our Troop has an OA Election every August, with a Call-Out Ceremony at our August trip. Very traditional all around, and our Scouts look forward to it right after a great summer camp. Those Scouts now elligible, are all 12 years old. They've been in the Troop about a year and a half, and have two summer camps under their belts. I've never approved OA Election candidates this young before, and our Lodge is pressuring the Council Scoutmasters to keep the "Scoutmaster's Approval" requirement at a very high level. Our Lodge is tired of young Scouts being elected, taking their Ordeal, and never hearing from them again. I do fault the Scoutmasters for not preparing possible OA candidates for their OA Election. I interview all Scouts meeting the election requirements, and discuss the obligation that they will make if they are elected into the OA. Our Lodge wants us to screen these candidates strictly. Anyway, if I don't "give" a little, our Troop simply can't have an OA Election this year. These Scouts are Spirited, smart, dedicated, and enthusiastic. However, they are immature in the way they act. But hey, they're just 12 years old. So, do I allow the election, or wait until next year? WWW sst3rd

Our District was recently split into two new Districts, we volunteers assume, because of our growth in units and members. Our OA Chapter Advisor has not been informed of any changes in our membership. However, our Council has announced the new location of the additional Roundtable and Chapter meeting, as they will start to meet at the scheduled Roundtable in August. Having worked with our Chapter closely, the current Chapter Advisor has been advised of nothing. We have heard that "somebody" has appointed a new Advisor for the new Chapter. We've heard nothing from the Lodge Advisor. The current leadership and committees of the current one Chapter, would simply like to move forward as is, as we have active Election and Ceremonial Committees. We have an active Chapter with officers and advisors. But if we are forced to split, our committees will have no advisors in one chapter, and no Scouts in the new Chapter. So, who decides when to add a chapter when a successful district has to split? Our current chapter is confused and upset. Who has the authority to demand that we attend the new Roundtable and Chapter meetings because of our location in the two new Districts? We're running the fall Camporee, and are very concerned we'll lose support because of the confusion. Thanks for all help. sst3rd (Chapter Ceremonial Team Advisor)

Can you smell a "set up"??????? You go Bob !!!!!!!!!!

9muckraker7, I know that somehow the BSA expects the youth leaders to plan all Troop events, but one major item I take care of every year, is scheduling our camping trips. Our Council calendars come out in June, and our Troop has its annual planning meeting in August (this used to be the BSA recommended month, still works for us). As Scoutmaster, I pull together our school calendars, church sponsor calendar, National, Council, District, and Order of the Arrow calendars. Add to all of this the regularly scheduled holidays, and there's usually very few weekends left to schedule camping trips. But, we work it out. Our Committee is responsible for supporting this program once the youth Scout leaders have planned it. This takes a huge amount of stress off of the youth Troop leaders (and the adult leaders as well), and lets them concentrate on the camping trips themselves. Our Troop is also very active in the Order of the Arrow. WWW sst3rd

This can be corrected by the Scoutmaster approving OA candidates for the Troop election, at a higher level. Our Lodge has put pressure on Scoutmasters to raise this level, and if needed, to ask non-active OA members at all levels, to remove their lodge flap and pack away their sash. sst3rd

Wake up has always been 7:00 AM. Friday nights are usually tough to get the younger Scouts to go to sleep. They're wired from the school day. The older Scouts are usually the first to ask to go to sleep right after the camp is set up, and inspections have been made by the SPL. Saturday nights take care of itself. After the campfire and program, we play a fun physical game (Capture the Flag or other similar games). Everyone comes back to the campfire, warms up, and off to the tents. Once in a while we get Scouts that just can't settle down in their tents. I inform them that as long as I receive no complaints from their neighbors and they stay in their tents, they could stay up. I tell them that 7:00 AM comes around whether they've had eight hours of sleep or three. As far as the Scout not getting up on time (assuming he's not skipping out on his cooking and/or clean up duties), he forfeits his meal. If he's still in bed after breakfast is complete and the Troop is ready to start its programs, a parent is called for a pick up. No fuss, no muss. sst3rd

It's just so much fun to see the same old routine where someone is so upset with a BSA policy and how in the world could anybody be threaten by my being involved with a unit. Same old, same old. Once again, nothing you can say will be listened to, and no minds (all sides) are changed. This was a "one" pager last night, but a "five" pager tonight. Folks, this was a set up from the beginning. I responded clearly, but knew nothing I said would be accepted by mhager. That was an impossibility. Everyone once again "bit" on this one. So funny. sst3rd P. S. It was/is an interesting (entertaining ????) read though.

mhager, Yeah, it's a good idea. But it's more than just an idea. It's an ideal. As a youth member, we may not have our code (call it what you want) resolved, so in the hindsight of adulthood, we now feel the need to second guess. Yeah, it's a good idea. sst3rd