SR540Beaver

Seriously folks? You're going to pick the resident alien nit as some big scandalous deal? One, they changed their wording, so you should be happy they aren't "excluding" resident aliens anymore. Two, so what if they were? That would be their choice just like excluding gays and athiests is BSA's choice......and look at how many people who disagree with that are still members. Organizations get to set their membership policies because it is perfectly legal and constitutional for them to do so. Plus, I wonder just how many resident aliens are out there wanting to sign up. In my council, out of 5,000 adult volunteers, we had one Canadian who wasn't a US citizen. I imagine there are areas of the US where you would have a different ratio of 5,000 to 1, but I'm sure the number isn't huge. I mean if that is the best that folks kind do to fault AHG, I'd say they are doing pretty good.

OGE, Pierre does realize that he has to leave the hard cider in the vehicle once he gets to Jambo doesn't he?

As one of your so-called "Pseudo-Christians", I have my own doubts about your understanding of the teachings of Jesus as well.

Lone Scouting article from 2001 - http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0110/a-lone.html

scoutingagain: "No one is looking for a lynching." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/03/26/149399082/new-black-panther-party-offers-10k-bounty-for-george-zimmerman New Black Panther Party Offers $10K Bounty For George Zimmerman Over the weekend, members of the New Black Panther Party showed just how tense the situation in the Trayvon Martin shooting has gotten: They offered a $10,000 bounty for the capture of George Zimmerman, who shot and killed the unarmed teenager.

Michael, As far as the BSA is concerned for the items you listed, you are a youth since you are not registered in a troop. Then you would be an adult. Even though you are considered a youth in Venturing and OA, you are legally an adult. The smart thing is to take YPT simply because it is a good thing to do. It can be done online and takes very little time. In fact, if I were you, I'd take both the Scouting YPT and the Venturing version. Have a blast at NOAC!

Moose, I've read your post 5 times and I'm still scratching my head trying to understand it. You had boys doing their Eagle project who were not registered Scouts?

I've been a member here since 2002 and one of the recurring themes here has been complaining about the monopoly that BSA has on scouting in the US. The argument has always been that in other nations, there are many flavors of scouting and how it should be that way in the US. Now we have an organization that does exactly what people have desired and people complain about them being exclusionary. Folks, you can't have it both ways. Here is but one example of multiple scouting organizations within a nation. Some are interreligious, catholic, protestant or adventist. Some are single gender and others are coed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_and_Guiding_in_Germany If you don't like McDonalds, you can go to Burger King or Wendys. If you don't like AHG, no one is making you participate and it should be no skin off your back that the people in their demographic have a place to go. AHG opens up the marketplace and you don't have to buy what they are selling.

You know, the fact of the matter is that none of us were there, so our opinions on the "facts" we choose to believe in this case are pretty meaningless. The one thing we know for sure is that two people were at the wrong place at the wrong time and one died as a result. The media played fast and lose with the facts early on and folks like Sharpton and Jackson have taken advantage of the situation to fan the fires of their cause.....and make a little money. None of us know the truth. The folks closest to knowing the truth are the police and the DA and to date, they have not felt a compelling need to arrest Zimmerman. They must know something that the media, Sharpton and we don't know. What I do know is that claims of racism and folks like the Black Panthers putting out a bounty will do nothing but make a bad situation worse. Let's let the professionals handle it and determine if there is enough evidence to take it to trial. Eventually, we will be made privy to it too. Let's trust the system to work.

eisley is correct. Different Lodges have different election cycles. Back in the day, elections were held at summer camp, along with a call out and then Ordeal. Some Lodges still do that, some don't. We go on a calendar year basis, sort of. The desire is for the chapters to conduct elections in the 4th quarter of the year for the coming year. We hold Ordeals in May and August. If a troop is slow in responding to our request to come do an election, we can technically come hold an election up until a week or so before the May Ordeal. We've experienced a large number of no troop responses for this year, so we've been having to follow up with them to get elections done. In fact, we have one tonight. Now, as to adults being nominated after the fact, that also depends on the lodge. We actually send the troop a packet of info including the adult nomination form by email and also bring a packet with us to the election. My experience is that most troops never got around to getting it filled out to give to the election team at the election. We have to follow up with them to see if they are going to nominate an adult or not. We ALWAYS recommend that the SM be nominated if he isn't a member. We actually have some who tell us they don't have time......but I've discussed that in another thread before. So, check with your lodge or chapter election team and see if nominations can still be turned in for this year. If so, your committee needs to complete the form and submit it. While you may want to be in OA, you can't nominate yourself and fill out your own nomination.

BadenP: "radical Pseudo-Christian" ideology and conversion" We await your copious evidence of such a claim, as I'm sure you aren't posting personal opinion of your dim view of religion in general and Christianity in particular. It sounds like you have an axe to grind against Christianity, and that's fine......but you don't have to insult all the folks who do believe.

It's really not that hard. Go to Google, type in "boy scout council" and the name of your state. Among the many links I received back were links for each of the councils in Oklahoma. Just about every council site has links to their camp properties, training and a calendar that lists all of the district and council activities. Then it helps to go to Roundtable and do a little networking. I don't know if all councils do it, but we have a quarterly council coordinated meeting which is kind of like a council wide roundtable. All of the different council committees have breakout sessions after a general meeting. But anything that is coming up within the council gets advertised at this meeting.

http://www.oa-bsa.org/misc/basics/ The Order of the Arrow membership requirements are: -Be a registered member of the Boy Scouts of America. -After registration with a troop or team, have experienced 15 days and nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one, long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America. The balance of the camping must be overnight, weekend, or other short-term camps. -Youth must be under the age of 21, hold the BSA First Class rank or higher, and following approval by the Scoutmaster or Varsity team Coach, be elected by the youth members of their troop or team. -Adults (age 21 or older) who are registered in the BSA and meet the camping requirements may be selected following nomination to the lodge adult selection committee. Adult selection is based on their ability to perform the necessary functions to help the Order fulfill its purpose, and is not for recognition of service, including current or prior positions. Selected adults must be an asset to the Order because of demonstrated abilities, and must provide a positive example for the growth and development of the youth members of the lodge.

Basement: "Wonder why the media neglected to report it if it is true." Because whether people want to acknowledge it or not, the media is biased. There is a reason the police have not arrested him and it is due to evidence obtained at the scene. http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256 Sonner (Zimmerman's attorney) insisted that Zimmerman is not a racist, pointing out that he and his wife mentored for two black children for free. "When I asked this mother [of the mentees], who trusted [Zimmerman and his wife], and she's an African-American, if she trusted George Zimmerman, she said she did, and I asked her if there was anything that caused her to believe that she was a racist, and she said, 'Absolutely not.' And I said, went further, 'Did you ever hear him use racial slurs in any time that you'd been around him?' And she said, 'no' as well," Sonner said. In other news, here is one response to the situation. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370 The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the capture of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla. Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer. If the government wont do the job, well do it, Muhammad said, leading chants that included freedom or death and justice for Trayvon.

BadenP - "The reality is that even with these new partnerships their membership still remains very small, and IMO eventually they will disappear because of their exclusivity." Then you have nothing to worry or complain about, do you?

Shortridge, so what? These kinds of organizations have existed for years. AHG is just the newest kid on the block. http://www.pathfindersonline.org/html/about/about_pledge_law.htm http://awana.org/on/demandware.store/Sites-Awana-Site/default/Default-Start http://royalrangers.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpiralScouts_International http://www.royalambassadors.org/ http://www.wmu.com/index.php?q=children/ga/welcome-girls-action

SP, Exactly! We are seeing more and more Packs having to leave schools and where is one of the few places they can go for a CO? Churches. Without the support of the faith community, I'm not sure how long scouting would survive. mom, Feel free to steal it, I did. I'm not sure, but I actually think I heard it in a response from Gingrich about some expressed liberal outrage. Pearl clutching and hand wringing.....Oh my, why I never! Edited to add, I think in retrospect it was actually said about Gingrich over his outrage at the media. Either way, it's a funny phrase with a clear mental image.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

TWOMORROWS, Surely you are aware of PRAY that provides the religous awards materials aren't you? They partner with BSA, GSUSA, AHG and Camp Fire USA. http://www.praypub.org/main_frameset.htm Honestly, I don't understand all of this pearl clutching and hand wringing by so many people here over AHG. Religion and faith is nothing to fear. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to......but why be opposed to others doing it or being associated with it? If a program has a faith element to it and that isn't your cup of tea, there are other programs to pick from.

Nike, I'm not sure how much more up front AHG could be. Two different places on the main page of their website they have links on how to support the AHG MINISTRY and one item talks about what their MISSION is. They aren't trying to hide anything as they are advertising it instead.

BadenP, Those FEW it is open to? A quick Google search told me there are 74M Catholics and 171M Protestants in the US that the AHG Statement of Faith would apply to. 245,000,000 isn't a few. I already associate with many of this ilk at troop meetings.....and they seem to be fairly open, tolerant and caring people.

Welcome CopperCarla! Freedom of association is indeed as American as it can get. It's funny that those here who are throwing stones at AHG for not being "tolerant" are so intolerant themselves. AHG fills a niche, just like BSA does with their own exclusivity. Why people want to open up an organization that they vehemently disagree with or why it's existence is any skin off their teeth is beyond me.

scouter, https://summit.scouting.org/en/Jamboree2013/Pages/2013-Jamboree-Highlights.aspx Showcase a Visitor Experience Very Different than the Participant Experience Visitors and participants can come together in the 90-acre Summit Center. Access to program areas will be limited to jamboree participants. In the Summit Center, visitors will be offered a jamboree lite experience with a sampling of jamboree activities, constant entertainment and activities in the arena area, in addition to the exhibit and display areas. Jamboree visitors will be provided an improved experience and charged a reasonable but appropriate fee. Pre-registration wil be required and available early 2013.

Shortridge:"And we've all seen how "traditional values" is a great rallying cry to attract young people. That "words to live by" marketing campaign really improved BSA's numbers, didn't it? Good Scouting - true Scouting - spreads among the youth, through positive, fun, exciting programs. How many young kids do you know who say, sincerely, "I want to participate in a Christ-centered character-building program because I don't like the increasing secularism in our culture?" [ crickets ]" About the same number of kids who say sincerely, I want to participate in a program that prepares young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the organization's Oath and Law. [ crickets ] Programs like AHG, 4H, FFA, BSA, etc. were created with specific goals in mind that when stated outright, no kid would be interested in. Instead, just like a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, we offer a program they will find fun that teaches them valuable life lessons without them even realizing it.......and they invite their friends to play with them. We adults are a devious bunch, aren't we?

Not to defend this program, but my take on it is that it is a program totally seperate from summer camp. While I could be wrong, I'm making a wild guess that the council still desires that every boy attend their council camp AND then those who want to attend the program. Aren't we the same way with Philmont, Northern Tier, Jamboree, NYLT, NOAC, etc.? We still want our scouts to go to summer camp while availing themselves of the additional opportunities provided. Now I realize that many families will look at the price tag of certain opportunities and nake a decision of one over the another. My son once brought up in the troop annual planning session by the boys the possibility of doing a ski trip over a Christmas break or spring break. The SM wasn't opposed, but quickly added that if boys were considering it over summer camp, he had a problem with it. Now, he does plan a high adventure trip each year and seems OK if boys choose it over summer camp, so go figure.

A few weeks ago, I used a dry soup mix that was at least a year past it's expiration date. It was tasty and I'm still here to tell the tale.