SR540Beaver

The safety committee would have gone insane at my son's Eagle project. They removed a wood and shingle roof off of a pavillion and replaced it with a corrugated steel roof on a new and stronger wood frame........and they were at least 10 feet off the ground!!! They used circular saws and drills! Oh my. We even had a couple of Cub Scouts using paint rollers to repaint the uprights. Man, I'm glad we didn't get busted and the Campfire USA camp now has a functional structure they can again use for program.

One more thought on FOS being a factor......which it appears is not the case for the majority of us. I have to believe that where this happens, it is because of professional staff interjecting themselves into the process wanting to butter up large contributors. What possible motivation would their be for field volunteers to recognize monetary contributors over people who have given their time and talent to the youth. That isn't to say that folks who give money shouldn't be recognized, just not with the SB or DAM. Professionals need to be careful in their decision making and how they treat volunteers. We had a $10M capital campaign. We were at $9M and struggling to get the last $1M. A local individual who owns a large energy company made the final donation to put us over the top. The SE and board (non-field scouters who know nothing of council customs and traditions) decided it would be a grand idea to rename the councils original and oldest property after this individual. They could have used part of the money to build the new swimming pool needed at the camp and call it the So and So Aquatic Center, but no, they had to rename the whole camp. It ticked a lot of people off who had 3rd and 4th generation children attending camp there. But it seemed a good way to honor the man who made such a generous gift. Right or wrong, there are ways to honor the money folks without giving them recognitions for field volunteers. Any pro staff that insists on it needs to meet with heavy resistence.

Ditto what Pappa said. When districts hold events like day camps, they develop a budget and charge a per head charge to cover the cost of the event.......plus the 15% profit the council expects for their coffers.

Same here on FOS not counting. In 10 years of scouting, I think we made one small FOS contribution back around 2003. Since then, I've staffed 4 Wood Badge courses, been an ASM for 2 Jamborees, sit on the 2013 Jamboree committee, been the OA Chapter Adviser for 3 years, will be a Lodge Associate Adviser this coming year, received the Vigil Honor, am the backup CD for the summer NYLT course and the CD for the fall course. I received the DAM. I assume the council and district views the time I "spend" the same way I do, more valuable than money. I've always viewed FOS as something for those parents who aren't involved to provide support.

SSScout, Depending on where you live, it's four words. Hey y'all, watch this! Away from scouting it is followed by three more words, hold ma beer.

Of course, in larger councils, the "rules" vary from district to district and it makes for interesting conversations at council gatherings. Our neighboring district has no "build something" rule, so we don't consider their eagle projects worthy and wonder how they can hold their head up in public doing powder puff projects. Who cares if they walked on water, did they build a dock to step onto when they completed their trek?

DE's testing scouts? I'm still waiting to see a DE who knows the program. I've heard of them, but I'm still waiting to actually see one.

Moose, it would obviously depend. Our troop has been at the charter for over 45 years and has a dedicated room that only we use. We couldn't and shouldn't do an eagle project to put new paneling and carpet in our room. Building shelves or something for the nursey is a totally different thing. None of our scouts have babies in the nursery. In a situation where the troop and church shares a multi-use room, I think most BOR's would ask a few questions to clarify and approve it.

Local interpretation? Negative. Ask the SM to show you in black and white where such a rule is stated by the BSA. If it isn't stated, it isn't a a rule and the "local" folks can't change it. However, they will, and they will stick to their guns because that is what THEY have decided "Eagle" means. But if challenged, they don't have a leg to stand on. There are all sorts of local interpretations that are flat out wrong. Some I've seen across our council's district are: You cannot do a project for your charter organization because as a part of the CO you'd be benefitting scouting. That would be true if you were revamping the Scout room. It isn't true if you are erecting flag poles outsinde the church office. You must build some sort of lasting structure. I've seen where kids have a project of contructing new trail and the district insists that they build benches along the trail. Thry just aren't happy unless you build something. The scout must collect the reference letters and bring them to their BOR to provide to the folks sitting on the board. This is the ultimate in laziness on the board's part. The scout needs to ask for reference letters. Obvioously, he should ask people that he feels confident will do so. The boards concern is that they will not receive the letters and feel they can't hold the board without them. If the people asked do not send them, that should not be held against the scout. Forcing him to handle the letters is the easy way out. The list could go on and on and on...... It is time like these where I appreciate our old friend Bob White. Bob read the documentation and applied a bit of logic to doing what it actually said instead of trying to decide what the author really meant when they wrote something.

mikeb, My son is an aged out Eagle. A few years back, a friend in the neighborhood asked if he wanted to go camping with his family at a lake. My son said sure. They camped in a very nice 5th wheel trailer with the expanding sides, where they wathced movies on the DVD player, ate popcorm from the microwave and enjoyed the air conditioning. My son really enjoyed it, but informed his friend that they were RV'ing, NOT camping. Boy Scout camping is outdoor camping in a tent or under the stars. When we do OA elections, we work on the honor system. The SM gives us a list of candidates that he says meet the stated qualifications. If he wants to discuss the meaning of the qualifications we have already provided him, we are happy to do so. If we see a glaring "violation" like the SM who once asked for a show of hands of guys who wanted to be on the ballot, we will take him aside and reexplain the qualifications he obviously failed to read. Other than that, we never ask for proof.

At each rank advancement, the SM has to sign off on Scout spirit. Determining if a "qualified" scout should be on the election ballot is no different. If the boy doesn't live by the oath and law, doesn't attend meetings, misses campouts, etc., is he showing Scout spirit? Should he be included on the ballot for OA. My Associate Adviser was at an election a year or two ago where the SM did nothing to prepare and simply asked the boys to raise their hand if they wanted to be in OA.....without checking to see if they were eligible. We actually work hard, very hard to provide detailed information to the SM's EVERY year about the election process and then this yahoo asks for a show of hands. Really? Is the rest of your program like this? SM approval isn't rocket surgery.

Since it appears that most Eagle BOR's make up their own rules and ignore those from BSA, I don't see them being sticklers for these rules. Most probably won't even know the exist.

SP: "Usually when I introduce a new activity, I'm looking for ways to create an appetite and interest in the activity before it's introduced, so there is interest in it and demand for it when the opportunity comes along." Your in luck, part of the Lodge and Chapter Chief's job is to explain what OA is and does. Have them come speak as suggested and you've accomplished your task. I mean, how better to entice boys than have other boys who've "been there, done that" tell them about it. I know that the adult leaders for Jambo in my council look for previous Jambo youth to come along with them to talk about their experience as a participant when they are recruiting.

Careful Papa, I got hammered here in the past when I complained about troops who "don't do OA" and wouldn't allow our team to come do an election. I tried explaining that it is an individual honor and how it opens up many other opportunities to those who choose to do it, but there are those who will defend their "right" to decide for the boys in their troop whether or not they "do OA".

I was flipping thru the current copy of Scouting magazine and what do I spy? Boys pulling a four wheel cart like we use at Jambo, scout camp and troops. Oh my, someone might get hurt!

Nothing to add except.....DITTO!

I hope the good folks from national didn't notice all of the Jamboree troops pulling their four wheeled carts back and forth to the commisary for their food draws. Of course, we never allowed anyone under 14 to pick up a food draw.

Just like the Brits have Bear Grylls, I nominate Boyd Matson for Chief Scout. http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/traveler-magazine/unbound/boy-scouts/ http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/wild-chronicles.html http://boydmatson.com/about/(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Ah, I remember little league sports. I got to square off with an opposing coach once and exchange "ideas". I'm glad we left sports behind and got into scouting. I've yet to square off with another scouter in my 10 years as an adult scouter.

Willamor, I was remiss in not welcoming your earlier. Welcome! Not to chase a rabbit, but why is the camporee designed between venues that require bus travel? I'm sure it is probably a fun and cool idea, but it sounds overly complicated.

Just out of curiosity, why do you need buses between event locations? Are these locations miles apart or something?

Just keep everyone a minimum of 300 feet apart and the rest takes care of itself. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Short, That is for the BSA Foundation. My council has a "contact us" link right on the front page that has the council office address, phone number and maps of how to get there. Then there is a staff directory with the name, email address and phone number of every employee from the SE to the janitor. What does national have to hide?

Speaking of something to hide. I have a challenge for the folks in this thread. Go to the BSA's national website and produce an organizational chart OR a phone number and email address for any professional OR a street address and main phone number for national. I can't find them. Never have. It's almost like they're exclusive and don't want to talk to you......or they're hiding something.

shortridge, I challenge you to go to the AHG website and navigate to the registration form. You can't without logging in. At least I can't. You are using google and getting in thru a "backdoor" because while AHG thinks they have certain materials behind an ID and password, you are getting around it with a direct url. Having put together a website or two, I can tell you that the webmaster can leave a page or a document cached on their host while removing the url from public view. If you know the url, you can still get there. I believe what you are seeing is the OLD form and the NEW form and creating a consspiracy where one doesn't exist. I can almost with 100% confidence claim that someone at BSA has access online to obsolete forms the BSA used to use too. The imporant thing is that AHG does not have a restriction on legal residents. They probably didn't before, but the wording gave that appearance and when brought to their attention, they modified it to remove confusion. If only the BSA could make changes that quickly. How many threads have their been over the years about the use of the words "may not" in regard tobacco use by BSA adults. BSA could clear it up easily if they wanted to, but for whatever reason, haven't. It's harder to turn a ship than a boat.