SR540Beaver

I'm the fall NYLT Course Director for our council. We do one of our courses over fall break and split it into two weekends. The first which was last weekend was Thursday thru Sunday. The second weekend will be this coming Saturday and Sunday. I'm just happy that scouters are not as negative about the NYLT course and awards as they are about WB....Kudu excluded of course.

Since the charter belongs to the charter organization and they sign off on leaders, shouldn't they be looking at themselves. Too many just provide space and rubber stamp the process. It is their unit, they need to be involved.

I hear you SP. I have a neice finishing her doctorate in medieval literature. Close to 30 years old, around 8 years of school and a PhD and she is grading papers for professors. I worry about her future. She will most likely become a public school teacher unless some old grey haired professor dies somewhere. Then I have a nephew on each side of the family who have blown off a higher education and work menial labor to feed their garage band habits. But they all seem to be happy. Another 10 years down the road, they may question those choices.

The wheels of progress turn slowly sometimes, but my son got his official offer from BP last night and accepted it. He will be headed to Alaska for his paid internship and has to report in on May 14th. He is super excited at the opportunity. He's even more excited that he will be making almost 3 times per hour what he made the past two summers back home.

I'll gladly let you know how things turn out.

We always hear the stories of how being a Scout/Eagle pays off in the end. Some people believe it gives you an advantage, others don't. I want to share my son's story. My son is an Eagle who is in his sophomore year of college. He is in the engineering school at Oklahoma State University with a major in Fire Protection and Safety Technology. His school is one of only two accredited programs in the US. Yesterday was the engineering career fair with over 100 companies represented. His interest lies in fire and safety in the oil and gas field, so he talked to about 15 different companies yesterday. Prior to that, they can apply for internship interviews with these companies. BP called him and set up an interview for this morning. The guy also told him, "don't come in a suit and tie, that isn't how we dress in the biggest oil field in the US". So he wore his boots and jeans for his interview this morning. The interview lasted about an hour. On several of the questions, his answer would related back to some scouting experience like his Eagle project. Towards the end of the interview, the interviewer told him that he had done very well on the interview. He was 1 of only 16 given an interview out of a field of 122 applicants. They would narrow down those 16 to 6 tonight and let those they will hire for the summer know within the next two weeks. The interviewer told my son that two of the contributing factors to his selection for an interview was that he was a member of the Fire Protection Society and his scouting experience listed on his resume. Turns out, the interviewer is an SM, a Brotherhood member of the OA and an Eagle Scout. They spent the last 15 minutes discussing my sons backpacking trips to Philmont and the Pecos Wilderness, his Northern Tier trek, his two Jambos, camp staffing experience, Eagle project and OA ceremonies. He came away from the interview feeling very good about it. If he gets this internship, he'll spend the summer on the north slope of Alaska working 14 day/12 hour a day rotations with 14 days back in Anchorage. That Eagle rank and Scouting do indeed count sometimes!(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

I believe I've said it before, but I'll say it again. My best friend is gay. My sister is a lesbian. I love both of them dearly and have no issue with their sexual orientation. Now, that being said, I fully support BSA's position based on my on personal experience. A man I loved and trusted as my minister of youth from 7th grade thru college was a closeted gay married to a woman. He wasn't a pedophile, he was gay. He kept everything legal by waiting until the kids in his charge turned 18 before making a move on them. I know because I was one of them. For the record, nothing happened because I moved his hand and told him no. It happened at church camp my freshman year of college. Since then, I know other guys it happened to. While I am fully aware that the actions of this one gay man do not necessarily represent the actions of all gay men, it puts me on the defensive of putting the youth in my charge in a similar situation. I support the ban and always will.

I attended the Southern Region NYLT Course Directors's conference last November in Irving. I can tell you that what emb021 says about 18 and over going to WB and under 18 going to NYLT is what they strongly recommended at the CDDC.

"The irony of having Mitt Romney, who signed into law Romneycare in Mass. with basically the same mandate and who had argued for the need and legality of it in interviews and in editorials now campaign on repealing the law is too rich. How is he supposed to maintain a shred of crediblity on any issue?" The difference is one size does not fit all. There are 50 individual states with different economies and needs. The powers not enumerated to the federal government in the constitution is left to the states. While Obamacase and Romneycare may both be fruit, one is apples and one is oranges. Plus, if I don't like the laws, taxes or penalties in my city, county or state, I can move. I suppose I could leave the US too, but that's a tad more complicated situation.

Fscouter, Ever hear of the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act? "The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment." That is why you are paying for other people's health care. Now imagine if Congress decided that home improvement stores had to provide you with the items that were stolen from your home. The home improvement stores would raise prices to spread the cost to the paying customers. But if everyone had the means to protect themselves and their belongings, the crime and burgulary rates would drop and the home improvement stores would reduce prices for goods. It's a win-win for everyone! How do we get everyone to protect themselves from burglary? We require them to buy a gun and get trained. Is it the same? No. Is it an analogy? Yes. Could it happen? Why not. Who would have ever imagined that the government could overstep their contitutional bounds and require people to buy health insurance whether they want it or not........even if it is a smart thing to do? Give them an inch and they have always taken a mile. This is just another (big) step in a journey of becoming a cradle to grave nanny state that erodes our individual liberties. What's next?

"I really do not know why people insist on calling the Affordable Healthcare Act, 'ObamaCare'." Ever hear of the "Bush Tax Cuts" or "Bush's wars"? Same thing. What's good for the goose...... If the administration is going to refer to the Affordable Healthcare Act as Obama's signature policy acievement, it kind of follows that it will be nicknamed "Obamacare". Just the way it works.

Let's apply the court ruling to something other than healthcare and see if it passes muster with everyone here. Gun ownership. Just as everyone is "in the market" with healthcare and it's a life or death proposition, so is personal and home security. Does anyone here not have locks on the doors and windows of their homes? When you go to bed at night, do you make sure your home and family is secure behind those locks? How about a universal personal security law that requires all Americans to purchase a gun and training? For those who chose not to, we can penalize them thru the IRS when they file their annual return. Sure, requiring everyone to purchase a gun to protect themselves from crime wouldn't be found constitutional, but a tax to penalize those who don't so it is fine and dandy. So, who is with me on passing gun ownership legislation? Let's end crime in our time! Universal security for all. The point is folks, do we really want to allow the government to have control over every aspect of our lives? Whether it is thru passing a mandate or thru penalties? Is their role to protect us from ourselves? Isn't one of the purposes of the constitution to LIMIT the government or not? Whatever happened to free enterprise, capitalism and personal responsibility. Do we really want to give up freedom for security? Does no one realize what a slippery slope we just set foot on? What's next?

Oklahoma has one of the largest Native American populations in the US, if not the largest. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone with Native American ancestry. You find plenty of them in Scout troops and in the OA. I work with a man who is Cherokee and was the Chair of their Constitutional Convention and is very involved with their tribal politics. We've talked about OA. He has no problem. He and folks like him are who I'm concerned with offending. My white brothers in scouting who feel some sort of "guilt" over OA, don't concern me nearly as much.

Such as?

If you're talking the adult SM/ASM training class, it is IOLS in my council and pronounced isles. Webelos version is WELOTS and pronounced just like it looks.

CP, He of course would need to promote wearing proper footwear in the outdoors.

Boyd Maston of National Geographic. http://travel.nationalgeographic.com/travel/traveler-magazine/unbound/boy-scouts/

BP, I've yet to see a company or organization that was a democracy. When I started working in banking 31+ years ago, we officers were told in no uncertain terms that we were not to openly criticize the company or openly question a decision. We could do it behind closed doors with our management. Employers make decisions and tell employees what the official company position is. Fight them and you could end up out on the street looking for another job. Now, none of that is to say that good companies or organizations don't hire the best people they can, value their opinion and listen to them. But once the guy in charge sets the course, you back it or get out.

BD: "Far as who bob is, is relevant to the conversation...... Bob said he was at a national level meeting.....Good to know who the players are and what the stake in the game is......." I'm not sure what the qualifications or restrictions are, but a volunteer buddy of mine went to the national meeting.

I'm not anti-sports, I just have never really cared that much about them. My son played little league baseball for 4 years and basketball for about 3 years and I assisted. I always looked for the opportunity to teach him life lessons I saw in sports. I can honestly say though that the years he spent in scouting far outweighed anything he got out of sports. As Eagle732 said about Naval Academy cadets, the Eagles far outweigh the football players. While sports and physical activity is a good thing, the chance at going from high school sports to college sports and then to professional sports in astronomically small. Even for the kids who drop out of scouting, a merit badge here or a campout there could spark an interest that changes the direction of their life. Any time in the program reinforces the oath and law and helps them to be better persons over all. While I have nothing against the kid who gets MVP in a game or season, I'll take a kid making Eagle Scout over that any day of the week.

You know, we always talk about going to DE's, SE's, COR's and UC's with issues. In this case, I see nothing wrong with going to the school prinicpal for a discussion about how his coach is handling kids. Tell him you'll make a deal. You won't encourage kids to drop band because only wimpy geeks do band or drop sports because only dumb kids can use their brawn instead of their brains if the coach will lay off of the scouts and let them make their own decisions. I'm exagerating of course. But a discussion about the benefits of scouting ads well as physical activity and arts is in order. They can compliment each other and should be available to any kid to take part in. Tell them you are looking for a partnership between programs. Any halfway enlightened educator already understands the benefits.

Tokala took the words out of my mouth. Positive growth isn't just about new members. If you are retaining members, than only one new Ordeal member is positive growth. Of course that is an extreme example and there is going to be attrition in any program. As Lodge Chief, what can you and your VC's, your Chapter Chiefs and all Advisers come up with as a way to draw former members back into the fold? Look at your numbers. If you had 500 on the roster for last year and only 475 this year with 20 candidates and only 15 go thru Ordeal, you are left with 490 on the roster. That is 11 below a "positive growth" number of 501. Surely there are 11 people in the Lodge who have not paid dues that you can get to pony up.

Kudu, It is well established that you believe Wood Badge and management theory have caused the decline in scouting membership numbers. Perhaps. But I believe your disdain for WB makes you see boogie men where boogie men don't exist. Have you ever considered the domgraphics of the post-WWII baby boom? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_baby_boom#Definition_of_the_boom_years "The exact beginning and end of the baby boom can be debated. In the United States, demographers usually use 1946 to 1964, although the U.S. birthrate began to shoot up in 1941 and to decline after 1957." I was born in 1957. I turned 18 in 1975. The available number of youth started declining during the 70's. That has a much larger bearing on the numbers of scouting than what was/is being taught at Wood Badge. Just because you were bitten by a black dog.....does not mean all black dogs bite. When considering what might be the cause of membership decline, your take on it is purely subjective. Using population numbers is objective. Before you denounce my use of wikipedia, you can scroll to the bottom of my link to see the bibliography and references used for the listing.

SP, You are correct. Many units get it backwards and see the SM or CM as the guy in charge. He is......of program. But by the book, he answers to the Committee Chair who is actually over the whole shooting match at the unit level. The SM or CM is just the most visible guy.

acco, Amen, brother! In our Lodge, the Lodge Adviser has a saying, "This is YOUR Lodge, this is YOUR time". I've carried that to the Chapter level with, "This is YOUR Chapter, this is YOUR time". We are here to advise and facilitate their plan.