Sqyire21

I saw some interesting points from everyone, and thanks for the thoughts. To clarify: My pack has our cross-over/Pack meeting in early June, then we plan 2 activities for June (camp-out and local fishing event), 2 activites in July (4th of July parade and another, and 1 activity in Aug. (rocketry event last 2 years, but looking at astronomy this summer). Our den meetings usually die down, and we don't hold Pack meetings either, but we do remain active. We've earned Sumertime Activity Award last two years, and we're on schedule for our third. We also support our district Day Camp. (which costs $150 for the week, so not all of our scouts can afford it) With this plan, we manage to get most of our scouts the Summertime activity award, as well as the Outdoor activity award. Also, it provides two activities for each scout to choose from each month, except Aug (although we have offered to do a 2nd activity in Aug if a scout/den needs it)

So.. when are the new books comming out, and what will it do to our programs? Will all the books change, just one or two, and will they be a phase in date? Since CS programs start on 1 June, I'd like to know what is going on before we start our scouts down a path, and then have to switch gears 1/2 way though the year.

So I was looking at the Cub Scout Outdoor Activity Award today....and I wanted to ask others. While I love the idea of this award....I feel like it's whole purpose is to promote, there-by raising money for, District/Council Cub Scout Resident/Day Camp. I'm curious how others feel about the award.

I'm confused by your questoin. "yes and no kinda guy?" Yes, you're right, the conference is pretty much pass/fail.. but if the scout says he's really done with scouting and doesn't want to be here.. should you pass him? What if he says something contrary to scouting? You can fail them... But, if a scout isn't present or participating in the scouting program...the SM doesn't have to agree to hold the conference... or he can agree to hold the conference, and say "I don't agree you're active enough, and until you improve, I won't sign off on this requirement." I see nothing wrong with that. No tricks. Nothing underhanded. If you're not up to scratch..tell them so.. and see if they improve.

All great points...but the original question/issue was: A cub-scout who said he was an Atheist. It's my understanding....a scout must be Reverent. It's a requirement for every rank in the BSA program. How that reverence is defined (and reverent to who/what) is open to interpretation. (but not by the leaders) My only point was to ask the scout (with his family present) if he could explain his belief's. I certainly don't feel having a boy explain something would develop into a theological disccusion. I ask my pack cub scouts to explain things all of the time. (Tell me more about what you learned. Tell me what you did to earn this.) It shows understanding, and helps re-enforce the lessons. The rest would be a great thread on theology and reverence in the political disccusion thread...but I think we've all agreed... not all belief's are easliy defined, and a broad stroke must be applied when it comes to this requirement. However, to me, having a scout claim to be an Atheist, doesn't necessarily disqualify him from the program. (at least, I think we've all pretty much agreed to these points)

Don't misunderstand my statement to down-play any religion. I was simply trying to state...a scout should have some sort of faith. When I say a belief in god, perhaps saying a higher power would be better. I don't pretend to judge what a person believes to be true or untrue. To paraphrase a little: "Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him." but please don't ask me to explain who or what God is to someone... because that is always an indiviudal journey..

Whiel I see the point you're trying to make MB, I'm not sure I agree with what you are saying. (but I think we're very close to seeing some of this issue the same) I will state: My son and I are in Cub's still...so I'm not 100% current with the official requirements. As a Youth, my Troop required some sort of leadership position for every rank past First Class. If you weren't actively doing your job, you were removed and replaced. While we were a good sized Troop, we certainly weren't 50 strong...so I could understand limited positions and multiple scouts issues. The youth I specifically rememer went to get his SMC, but hadn't held a leadership position, and hadn't been active for months. He hadn't been attending meetings, and seemed to believe he was going to just get a pass on his SMC. This was the reason he was refused. I don't however tend to agree with manupulating a situation to have a boy 'forget' to recieve his SMC. Some of the other idea's listed above I also feel are dishonest and contrary to Scouting's principles. If you have a scout who's not active....leadership should be working to ensure he is. My .02...

Seen some great answers here....but just to offer my .02: Most boys aged 9-11 don't have a fully developed relationship with God. That's not to say they can't, but many boys are still searching for this. I can ceratinly state in my own youth, throughout my Scouting trail, I tried (and declaired) many different religions...and I'm sure I declaired I was an atheist at least once or twice. I'm now a very happy Christian, with a great relationship with God. As previously suggested: I would sit down with the parents, and ask the boy to explain his beliefs. It's possible he does have some religous beliefs, but he's not really sure how to express them. It's also possible he's searching for attention, and thinks if he's different, he'll get some. As stated, he needs to have some sort of belief in god.. even if that belief is only he agrees there is a god...he's just not sure who/what god is.

There are so many issues with this tread in my mind. While venturing crews can select their own uniforms....having them dressed in all black uniforms, reminencent of a certain military group in the 40's and modern hate group...probably doesn't portray the proper BSA image. Technically, you should only wear the white sash with red arrow...but I've also seen the other versions. I aslo like the idea of having the OA history on the back.. so this becomes an issue of Uniform Police vs. personal preference. As stated...the technical rule says white sash. The concept of BSA declining in numbers, so just allow it is contrary to the idea of integrity and honesty. What are we teaching our members if we're more worried about them leaving then doing what's right?

Just to put this in perspective: Per OSHA requirements (and in the USAF, we get this preached to us ALL of the time)... if you are standing on anything over 4' off the ground, you are subject to a possible Fall Hazard. You must be supported or tied off... That being said, it's not any easier to look at a member of the Military (who may fight/die for our country) and tell them they can't do something, than it would be to look at a Scout. I also agree with 99% of this post...I think this is an essential skill and very important for scouts to learn...

Read this one with interst.. for a number of reasons. 1) I was an Eagle at 15, while my older brother didn't finish his until his VERY later 17. I certainly don't think I was too young...and I'm almost insulted to have someone think I was. I was very active, and did summer camp every year, Philmont at 15, etc. 2) Unless I'm mistaken, when Eagle was first created, the average age for the award was 15, then it went down to 14, and slowly rose and fell over the years. My father was 16 when he earned his in the 60's. I know I've read these numbers somewhere. 3) I've known SM to refuse the SM Conference for boys. Not due to age, but other 'real' reasons (lack of activity in Troop). So, I do believe there are legitimite reasons this could be done. However, like most people here, I agree.. the idea of a SM holding a Scout back and delaying their progression is disturbing.

Seen some great answers here....but just to offer my .02: Most boys aged 9-11 don't have a fully developed relationship with God. That's not to say they can't, but many boys are still searching for this. I can ceratinly state in my own youth, throughout my Scouting trail, I tried (and declaired) many different religions...and I'm sure I declaired I was an atheist at least once or twice. I'm now a very happy Christian, with a great relationship with God. As previously suggested: I would sit down with the parents, and ask the boy to explain his beliefs. It's possible he does have some religous beliefs, but he's not really sure how to express them. It's also possible he's searching for attention, and thinks if he's different, he'll get some. As stated, he needs to have some sort of belief in god.. even if that belief is only he agrees there is a god...he's just not sure who/what god is.

Thanks everyone. Family and I just did a quick 3 day trip down to SC. We don't have a house yet..but we're 99% sure we'll be living in the SE part of Columbia. I'll be searching for a Pack somewhere around there.

BLW: Look into the JTE, it's not that hard if you're running an active program at all. As far as the awards: A) We Earn them and B) none of them are very difficult to earn. Our hardest part has been ensuring our registrations are correct at District vs. what we show.

The post is still very active...we have pack-out in early July... so my son and I will arrive in Aug..

92hatchattack: I grew up in an area where none of the leaders wore knots (except the Eagles) Here, I've seen some local leaders who wear 4-5 rows (even though the uniform policy says only wear 5). Get with your Committee Chair and Pack Trainer...you'll be surprised how easy they are to earn...and leaders like recognition just like the scouts. We should be able to recognize our Pack Leaders for all they do. A small square cloth knot really doesn't say a lot, but at the same time...it does say "We noticed, and we appreciate all you do."

Based on the converstaions since my last post: Yes, the boy may earn his whole rank at any time after the start of the scouting year. Again, I ask "whats the rush?" Don't mis-understand... my son was looking to be done by Halloween...but I managed to distract him with a couple of new belt loops. Than we had the Holidays...a typically busy season, even for a scout pack. By the time we broke into January, he was chomping at the bit to finish. It kept his drive up, and he never lost his eye on the price. We do however hold the 'rank' patches until one of our quartertly Pack meetings. It allows for a more formal presenation and to me, just seems more appropriate. The Scout does recieve his beads however...so anyone who knows Cub Scouting knows... he's done, just not wearing the badge. I've heard lots of complaints on the Intermediate Badge Tracker (bead holder) First think I do is shave off some plastc around the button hole to help it go on-off easier. Next, replace the plastic strings with some leather from local hobbby shop. It's cheap. Next, when you add a bead, drop the bead on the string, then bring the string back down and through, creating a full loop around the bead. This prevents the beads from slipping off, and has worked very well for my Pack. Hope these helps. SM

Also: If anyone can get 2 of the WEBELOS Den Leader Award Knots (Yellow on yellow on yellow) I would love to be able to award them to my WEBELOS Den Leaders. We did the paperwork in time, but they scout shop here in DE didn't order any replacements back in the fall, and now they can't get them. My Den Leaders could wear the 'new' knot, but I (and they) would rather wear the other knots. Can folks poll their Scout Shops and if anyone can get 2 or even 4... please get back with me. SM

I just purchased 2 AoL knots today. I didn't need any paperwork. FYI: I contacted the district from my youth, and they don't have copies of my Cub Scout records. (and I'm not that old) My District theory is "A Scout is Honest." And to be honest...not that many people wear the AoL knot.

For my pack: Scouts recieve their rank at the next Pack Meeting after completing the rank...but...the way we read the books: they can start earning their arrow points through-out the year. So, for one of our Wolves, he was awarded his Wolf badge, Gold arrow point, and 5 Silver arrow points...all at the Blue and Gold. He could have completed it earlier, but we held him back, because 'whats the rush?' Rank Totem: We use it. Scouts tend to "Follow the crowd" It's normal at their age. We had a similar problem with scouts wearing the mother's pin on their uniform instead of giving it to their moms. At our next Pack meeting, I made sure to call all of the boys who earned a rank up, and bring up their mom's.. making a big show of presenting the mothers pin. With-in 3 weeks, almost none of the scouts had the mothers pins on. - So, we use the Rank Totems. The trick to prevent bead loss is to tie a secure knot on the bottom, and to route the little yellow cord through the bead a full loop. (there are other ways, such as using leather strips) We have the Den Leaders keep the beads, and check the scouts books for anythig signed off at home. Scouts earn the beads as they progress. Calendar: This is really up to you and the local Pack and school area. Scouts advance based on their school year or age. Here, the school year ends in June... and our Scouts go to 3 different school districts (yes, our scouts are spread out). So.. we hold an advancement ceremony in early June, and usually have a camp-out a week or two later. Since the specific day the Scouts move up in school year moves, we find this works well. We gain a couple of things with this: 1) If a Scout isn't done with their rank, they get a couple of extra weeks to finish it up. (and den-leaders work extra hard to complete it with them) 2) Scouts are able to complete a LOT of their rank requirements early into the year. This way, they feel like they're making progress towards their new rank quickly. We also use the Summer Time Activity Award, Outdoor Activity Award, Belt Loop program, and other programs to keep the scouts intersted in more than just 'rank grinding.' Hope this helps.

Okay, I'm not counciler...but my wife is... (and it tends to rub off) The issue here is how the person feels about the comment. It's not how the person making the comment 'meant' for it to be.. or how the people around it meant.. it's all about how the Scout feels about the comment. At the age of most scouts (12-18), there are often feelings which the boys are trying to sort out. Most kids feel at some level as though they are struggling to fit in.. and will allow a comment they don't like to be said, in an effort to simply "be one of the guys." I can remember very well some of these types things from my childhood... and I didn't like them. Did I pretend it was okay? Sure! I was "one of the Cool Kids." Did I develop a "thick Skin?" Perhaps... but did it bother me when I was at home, after the other kids left? YEP! Bottom line: IMHO, Scouts have names, and so do the adults. Use them unless the individual says otherwise. If I say "Call me Sponge-Bob," you can safely believe I"m okay with it....however it's also a slippery slope (which some already said) because I could just be reaching for more approval from the crowd.

We have a VERY active summer program. We camp at least twice.. offer two activites a month for the Summer Activity Program, and meet at least every other week.. (normally every week) We've found it helps with retention if the boys don't leave for the summer.

Okay everyone.. I've cracked some of the code..not all of it.. but some.. Each Kindle Fire can have documnets (.pdf) e-mailed directly to it. So, this week I was able to find a ton of resources which I could down-load and then put onto my Kindle Currently have: Tiger Book, Wolfe Book, Bear Book, WEBELOS Book, Den Leader Guide, Religious Guide Books (Councelor, Mentor, Student), WEBELOS Leader Guide, Den & Pack Meeting Guide, Parents and Scouting guide, Cub Scout Leader Book, Ceremonies for Den and Packs, Academics and Sports Pgrm Guide, and I'm sure one or two others. So I'm now able to store a whole library worth of stuff in a single digitial device. The search for good Apps continues, but the sheer volume of guides and books I'm able to hold makes it worth it. I'm still looking for a full version of the Guide Book and Scout Manual if anyone has a .pdf version..

Also did a good search, however I wasn't able to find much of anything which would be of help. I'll check my local scout shop, but not sure I can offer much help

As a Scout...I always received my 'rank' at the meeting after the BOR, and my cards at the Court of Honor. This was because we only did 2-3 Court of Honor per year, and it was possible to earn 2-3 rank between Court of Honor. (especially Scout-First Class) For our Cub Scout pack, we have a supply of 2 or 3 of each rank. Yes, our council made a fuss...but our shop is a full 1+ hours away. Also like an earlier post, the cards are now un-restricted....funny part is, the cards are what we give out at the Court of Honor.