Snow_White

For me, it falls into the category of choosing your battles... For the record, my pack (or the pack of which I am a member, if you prefer) has a pretty loose attitude toward uniforming. I am often annoyed with the way that scouts show up dressed for pack meetings, B&G, and outings. However, other pack leaders do not necessarily feel the way that I do. SO, I can bring it up over and over again, until I become that annoying person who is always harping about incorrect uniforming, or I can focus my energies on planning activities where the scouts have fun, maybe learn something, and get recognized for their achievements.

NE-IV-88, It seems that in Cubs these days, third graders, for example, are "Bears", in a Bear den. They work on the requirements for earning the Bear rank badge, and are awarded the badge when they complete those requirements. However, no one considers them to not be a Bear until they have earned the rank. Thinking back to the old days, it may have been different then. In Boy Scouts, a scout is not a "Tenderfoot" until he completes the requirements to earn the badge. I think this is what Scoutfish was meaning to say.

I'm confused - not wearing a Scout uniform is now considered equally as "unscoutlike" as looking at porn and smoking at a den meeting?

bear dad, sent ya the email.

Alassa, ScoutTrack (and I assume the other commercially available software) has the logic built in to track that kind of stuff; it won't show the bear badge as being earned unless the achievements are completed in the right categories. I know there are pro's and con's allowing parents this access (and my own personal opinion varies from time to time), but I won't hijack this thread to talk about it.

Although each organization may handle it differently, I believe that religions/denominations present the medal (maybe with a certificate, I don't know) upon receiving an application or other documentation that the work has been completed. The purple knot is the BSA's recognition that the religious organization has awarded the emblem. From a practical standpoint... Our pack uses ScoutTrack, so we usually find that parents have entered that the scout has earned the knot. From there, our CM makes some gentle inquiries of the parents about the work performed, presentation of medal, etc... to satisfy himself that the emblem was indeed earned. (In many cases, he finds that the parents did not understand what they were checking off. One of the drawbacks of having parents enter advancement online.)

Still looking in the basement for the doc, bear dad. Haven't forgotten ya...

I forgot to mention that we also use the craft sticks and sanding blocks to carve the soap. bear dad, I have not gotten any PM. Maybe a mod or someone more knowledgeable than I can help figure out why not?

Some hands-on training, with handouts, was provided by the district to den leaders. My son's den leader then did a training session with several parents. When the den met to work on the requirements, each trained parent had about 3 Scouts (along with a supervising parent for each Scout) to work with hands on. The district handout had detailed instruction for carving a bear from a bar of soap - much more helpful than the diagram in the bear handbook. All the boys got their cards around the same time. There are many "correct" ways to do it - what works for some dens may not work for you. (If you send me a PM, I'll see if I can find a copy of the handout to send to you.)

Personally, I've not seen this before. Are you the Webelos den leader? If not, how does that person feel about it? To me, it seems slightly out of line, but not something I'd go to the mat over, unless I was pretty unhappy about other things that the CM is doing. At the moment, I don't have a reference to cite that he is wrong - if he is claiming that he is "by the book,", ask (in a nice way) for him to show you that book!

I hear what you're saying, Scoutfish - I've even been around some Bear parents that I wasn't sure were mature enough for knives. The sad thing about it is that these are probably the boys who can most benefit from being taught the right way to handle a knife. But I sure wouldn't want to be responsible for 24-25 of 'em.

Based on the link provided, I'm not a fan of these. If it's all we're allowed to buy, then it is what it is, but it would have been nice if they had been available at the beginning of the year. (Yes, we've just presented reank badges that were earned in January...)

That's interesting. Everything that I have heard about CS2010 has mentioned only Tigers, Wolves and Bears - Webelos have been conspicuously absent. I have been thinking it likely, though, that changes to the Webelos requirements would be coming, if for nothing other than to incorporate the new belt loops.

Scoutfish, It sounds like you are working on this at home with your son alone? In my experience, Whittling Chip has been done as a den activity at a series of den meetings. Has your den elected not to do this together? If so why or why not (maybe because the den is so large)? Have all of the parents been instructed to do this, or will it only be earned by the Scouts whose parents take initiative to do it on their own? (Not being critical at all, just curious - I'm always looking to compare how other packs handle things.)

Scoutfish, It's true that a two-paragraph in the CS Leader book is not enough to give you a good idea of how Webelos advancement works. Since you will be a Web leader next year, I would recommend that you go ahead and invest in a Webelos handbook - and just start reading. It will give you a better idea of how the process works and exactly what the requirements are for both the Webelos badge and the Arrow of Light. I think that if you do this, you'll go into the training that you've already scheduled with a head start.

Eagle92, that has not changed, no advancement report is required. Twocubdad, I agree completely about the spirit and the purpose of the program. CM plans to talk to the family. I even have to deal with this at home some times. Hubby: "Web-son is in chess club at school. Doesn't that mean he should get the Chess belt loop?" Me: "Gee, I don't know. Did you look in the book to see what the requirements are, and talk to him to see if they actually did those things?"

Basementdweller, I tend to agree with ya about doing things specifically for the belt loops, but like you said, there's no rule... And nowhere that I can find that states that you have to complete the requirements after the belt loop came out. I talked to our CM tonight and he agrees that's how it should be, so I guess that's how we'll approach it, until we find out otherwise. As you said, it's just a belt loop and doesn't count toward anything else. We rely the parents to sign off on these; she could have just said that he did it last weekend and we would never have known the difference. Scoutfish, we are talking about the Cub Scout Academics and Sports program, where Cubs have the opportunity to earn belt loops and pins based on a variety of topics. This is supplemental to and outside of the regular rank advancement process - Cubs can earn these at any time, and it does not have to be within a single scouting year. However, quite a few of the belt loops can count as toward various Webelos activity badges; in order to be used to fulfill the Webelos requirement, the belt loop must be earned while the scout is a Webelos. www.usscouts.org has a very good explanation of the program.

Is there any source that states when the activities for the new belt loops and pins must have taken place? For example, we have a parent who has just signed off that the Scout completed the requirements last spring toward one of the new belt loops. Some of the leaders are of the opinion that, in order to earn a belt loop, the requirements should be completed after the introduction of the belt loop, but we can't find any document that says so. I know about the requirements for belt loops to count toward Webelos activity badges, but this doesn't fall under that category. What do you all think? Is there definitive guidance on this? Are we overanalyzing it? Does it matter, as long as the Scout actually did the activity at some point?

Once again, ditto what ScoutNut said... rjscout, our local Scout Shop does not require any paperwork or certification to purchase these belt loops or pins. Around here, they are typically earned either a district Cub Scout Day Camp or the council's resident camp. From my conversations with the staff there, they seem to be relying on the fact that the requirements are not published to be a general deterrent to running these activities elsewhere. (Along with the expectation that leaders know what the rules are about this are, and can be trusted to follow them.)

Ditto to what ScoutNut said. Advancement issues aside... Our pack typically has a turnout of between 20 and 30 families at family camping events. I'm not sure I'd even want to see a pack campout with close to 200 families!

Nix the whitewater rafting. I will just take my Tiger Cubs to play Laser Tag on horseback.

Don't have the books with me right now to give you a reference, but this is definitely NOT the case. I think it says so in all the Cub level handbooks. Requirements are designed to be age-specific to most scouts' abilities, anyway - the Tiger and Wolf requirements should seem "too easy" or "boring" to a Bear. Between rank achievements, electives, and belt loops and pins, there should be plenty to keep him occupied at this level. (I would hazard a guess that in most cases this is brought up by parents who are "completists"?)

Do your units do uniform inspection? If so, how do you conduct it?

Best of luck, bear dad, you are doing a great thing for the boys in helping to get this pack up and running. You have gotten some good advice from this thread. A couple of points that I strongly agree with: -Pay dues once a year (a little more painful for the families at the time, but easier on the leaders to deal with). Also, parents have a little more buy-in once they've paid for the whole year up front. -For right now, things have to be on a pay-as-you-go basis, PWD kits, advancement, etc. Let them know that this can change after a few successful fundraisers. -A Scout is thrifty (sounds like you are doing a good job with this already). Borrow PWD track from nearby pack, if you can. Do a potluck B&G to keep costs down, but have an activity to make the event fun for the boys - make it something that they will look forward to for next year. Try to come up with a fundraiser that can also be a FUN-raiser - make it something that Scouts and parents will want to participate in and will bring the pack together in a common goal. Check out the Cake Bake thread here - that sounds like fun. Maybe invite the members of your CO or others in the community, so that you are not trying to raise funds from within the pack. (Make sure that appropriate permissions are obtained.) FWIW, popcorn is our pack's only fundraiser, and all money goes to the pack - no individual scout accounts. Most participate, a few don't, luckily we've never had anyone complain that its not fair. I like it this way, think it teaches the scouts a little bit about doing something not directly for your own benefit. Pack dues are collected once a year, at rechartering; when new scouts join, they pay pro-rated for the rest of the current year, and next rechartering upfront. The amount is minimal, Boys Life is extra if you want it. No den dues, den expenses (and they are not much) paid out of pack funds. Pack pays for all advancement, neckers each year, PWD kits, location rentals for pack events; most field trips/district events are pay as you go, some partly subsidized. Dues and uniforms are subsidized for needy families at the discretion of CM and CC. We are an established pack, your mileage may vary as you are in a very different situation. Sorry for the dissertation-length post.

My local shop (not a National shop, I believe it is owned by a neighboring council) has told us that none of this will be available until sometime in January. Our Scouts have plenty of other things to work on right now, so I'm not sweating it. But there are always a few parents who want Billy to get everything new that they hear about right away. Has anyone heard any rumblings about changes to the Webelos program to include the new belt loops in activity badge requirements?