SMT224

As a Scoutmaster, I am always happy when a parent of a new Scout steps forward and offers to help out with the Troop. Some decide to get trained and become an Assistant Scoutmaster or join the Committee. However several are not able to make that commitment, but can help out in other ways, such as driving Scouts to the weekend camping spot on Friday night and then coming back on Sunday morning to drive them back. We have a dad that does repair and maintenance on our Troop tents. A mom keeps track of our previously worn uniforms and helps new parents get their son in a uniform. Another parent takes the lead on food at Courts of Honor. There are likely plenty of Troop jobs and tasks that can really help out and make the Troop run more smoothly. As others have said, talk to the SM and see how you can fit in best.

Just back from our Troop weekend camping trip with the Webelos. Each Patrol in the Troop had developed an afternoon program to teach the Webelos Scout skills and then play games with them. One of the skills the Scouts taught was knot tying. Each Patrol took on 2-3 of the 7 Scout knots. Here were guys relearning those knot they had demonstrated for rank advancement (and then forgotten) with a very serious attitude, as they now had to teach those knots! We helped them as much as they needed in the relearning phase, but stood far back when they did the teaching. They took their task very seriously and did a great job. And with out any prompting, they kinda sorta used the EDGE method - they talked about what the knot could be used for, then showed the Webelos how to tie the knot, and then helped them tie the knot. The Scouts also taught axe yard skills, fire building, tree height measurement, and how to put up a tent. The Webelos were quiet, attentive and engaged through out the lessons. Made me proud to watch!

As much as I like campfires, a fire ban is a fire ban. Although candles are usually allowed. If this is the case, the Dens in your Pack could gather in separate little groups and give each Cub a candle. Then everyone could come together as a Pack and put all the candles on a platform or table. This would really show how brightly the Pack can shine when they get together!

I've found the most effective way to deal with any issue at the Troop level is though the Scout Leaders - SPL & PL's. If I had noted such a theft, I would immediately talk to the SPL and let him have a meetings with the PL's, who would then talk to the Scouts in their Patrol. My message would be: 1) The sodas are gone. 2) I don't know what could have happened to them. 3) Because the sodas are gone, we will not be able to have cake. 4) Scouts are bound to the Scout Law and therefore need to know and understand they are not allowed to touch anything that does not belong to them, whether it was brought by another Scout, Patrol, or adult. Scouts are much better at enforcing rules than adults. If there is a clear consequence where the selfish action of one or two Scouts affects the Troop, there will be justice.

Just back from a camping trip, last night sitting around a medium-small fire at 34F. It rained twice on Saturday, but we nevertheless found a abundance of dead and dry wood near the campsite - far more than we could use. As we stared into the flames & glowing embers, we discussed the alternatives presented here - a candle, LED in water, no fire - and none could do what that fire did for us. Not only were we were warmed, but the fire provided a focal point for our little group. It also cooked our dinner and our cake. Alternatives? No, there is nothing that could have done what the fire did for us in the cold dark night.

Hey Beaver - We have a campfire nearly every camping trip, but do not keep it going all the time. We usually have a small/medium sized fire in the morning, especially if it's cold or cool. Depending on the Saturday activity and how early we need to head out, Scouts may or may not cook breakfast over (or in) the fire. The fire is completely extinguished after breakfast and before we leave camp unless on the rare occasion someone is hanging around the campsite for the day. The next time we get a fire going is late afternoon or early evening, and the Scouts make a larger fire for cooking dinner and our Saturday campfire program. The size of the fire is dependent on the size of the fire ring, how much wood the guys gather, and how much they cut up. The fires on our March camping trip were small as much of the wood around the campsite was wet, and there wasn't much to start with. Nevertheless they got a nice breakfast fire going - it was 26F when we got up - so a fire was cheery. The dinner fire was a bit bigger, but guys were in their tents by nine as it got cold fast and they were tired from the hike. The adults hung around the fire for a bit longer before we put it out and went to bed as well. Rarely do we have a fire on Sunday morning as we have a quick breakfast, pack up, and head out early. So, it answer to your question, we don't have a fire going all the time, but fires are important parts of our program. We almost always do an ashes ceremony on Saturday night and often do a Flag retirement. as you well know, fire is a critical part of both of those ceremonies.

With the loss of the campfire, so goes the ashes ceremony...

Luckily for us we are in a pretty wet area. Nevertheless, we have experienced 2 fire bans over the past 10 years. Both times the Scouts were restless and inclined to mischief. A fire really seems to focus them and keep them in one place and for the most part out of trouble. Not sure if the water LED or a candle could replicate that focus...

I really don't see and LED having the magic of a flame. How about a candle? Or several candles? Or are those banned too?

We often camp in areas with a significant amount of dead fall. I see a well done and controlled Scout campfire as a public service to reduce dead fall (potential fuel for a forest fire) near populated areas. In some areas, not all, this rabid "fire is bad" results in nothing more than an increase dead fall and therefore an increase in fire danger. IMHO that is. And yes, there are those who will point out that the particulate matter in smoke of a campfire is a problem, but how about a forest fire for particulates??!! But back to my original rant... if the trend is less or no open fires and more stove use, then why not learn how to light a stove, not just set it up and look at it. Or should there be an adult hovering about to light the stove at all times? Is it a liability issue with regard to burns?

Well, we are clearly one backward Troop! We have a sizable fire on every camping trip, Patrols all have their own Dutch oven and do almost all of their cooking in it (as do the adults), and come home with the most delightful bouquet! And yes, starting a fire is a big deal as matches are never allowed.

I guess this is another reason I prefer (not require) hiking mb hikes be part of a Troop activity. If everyone is on the hike, everyone gets through it. Left on their own, some Scouts may not have had the motivation to complete the hike. Our March camping trip included a 14 mile 2,700 elevation change hike, and although it took all day, everyone did it! We had lunch on top, lots of breaks, and made sure everyone had plenty of water and drank it. On the other hand, we were 2.5 miles into a 10 mile hike last June, and it became obvious that some Scouts had not brought enough water. The Scout Leaders conferred and decided the best thing to do was to head back, a decision that was supported by the adult leaders and the rest of the Scouts.

singlemom - Thanks so much for coming back and posting again. It is clear that you very much need to be listened to and need to be heard. This was clearly a very difficult time. I've been a leader in Scouting for over 15 years, and a Scoutmaster for more than 10 years. In that time I've seen all kinds of things, the vast majority of it very positive. But sometimes negatives occur too. We deal with these quickly and transparently. If the action falls outside the Scout Law, then it must be dealt with immediately. If there were a Scout in our Troop that outright beat up a younger new Scout resulting in hospitalization, he would likely suspended at the least, and may be expelled from the Troop. But in order to make a decision like that, I would need to know exactly what happened. I would immediately talk to all the Scouts involved and all who witnessed it. If his actions fell outside the Scout Law, then action would be taken. The problem with info you have provided so far, is that I do not know what happened. I know that the mom is very upset, that the Scout is very upset and ended up with injuries that required hospitalization. But that is not enough. So I'm asking you for the details. What exactly happened? And then, what was done by the Troop to rectify the situation. I know you said you would not post again, but I (and likely others here) would appreciate some details to more fully understand what happened. And if you have not done so yet, I would highly recommend you get on the phone with the SM of the Troop your son was in and let him know in no uncertain terms exactly how you feel. Not comfortable talking to him? Then call his wife. Or the head of the Charter Organization. Either way, how you feel must be transmitted to the Troop. Perhaps they do not fully understand that they have a real problem child in their Troop that is abusive and driving Scouts out of the Troop. We had a kid a few years back quit the Troop. All he would say to me was that he didn't feel like coming anymore. When I asked his parents, they said he had been bullied. Ok. News to me. I had not witnessed anything of the sort. I asked for details - who had done it, when it happened, what happened. No, they parents said, he doesn't feel comfortable talking about it. Now I have no idea what happened, who was involved, or even when it happened. About a year later, several Scouts stepped forward and independently provided details on a Scout who was very abusive and very good at hiding it. By that time several other Scouts had quit the Troop, again not giving any information we could use. Once we understood what was happening the abusive Scout was dealt with and expelled from the Troop. But it did not have to go on for another year if that one Scout had told us what happened. It's like this... if you saw a drunk driver careening through the streets, would you not call the Police? Or would you say that it was none of your business? This situation is very similar - the Troop needs to know that they have a problem Scout so they can do something about it. So, I am humbly asking for two things: 1) please consider posting again and letting us know what happened. 2) please communicate to the Troop exactly how you feel, and give them the details of the situation as you understand it. Thanks.

Old - 2nd Class requirement 2g - On one campout, plan and cook over an open fire one hot breakfast or lunch for yourself... New - 2nd Class requirement 3g - On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch... What happened to the open fire?? And do they now not have to eat it? And while I'm ranting, why in the new requirement 3f do they not need to light the fire? Apparently they do not need to light the stove either? What, are we afraid someone might get a burn? How else do you learn?

"...singlemom's only solution is to move on to some other activity for her son..." I completely disagree! Such nonsense only propagates the OP notion that all of Scouting is lousy nothing but a "Mens Club" where boys are beaten on a regular basis. For this particular boys self esteem alone, he would be far better off to either go back to the Troop and stand up for himself, or find another Troop. It may be that he would be welcomed back to the Troop and may even become good friends with the boy he got in a fight with! It happens!! But if he walks away now, what pattern does that set up in his life? What will he do when the next confrontation occur? Walk again? How many times can he do that?

singlemom - As a Scoutmaster in a Troop with several boys with single moms, I am sorry to hear of you son's very crummy introduction to the Boy Scouts. As your message implies, you could very well run away and never have anything to do with Scouting again. I can see how tempting that is. It sounds like you are convinced that what happened to your son will happen to all boys with a single mom, so therefore none should join the Boy Scouts. If you've read the other responses to your post, I'm sure you know how wrong that is. I can certainly say that boys in our Troop who have a single mom are not beat up on a regular basis or ever, and in fact are treated the same as all the other boys. What you so unfortunately have experienced is an anomaly, and has to do with the two kids involved in the fight, irregardless of the number of parental units they have. As others have said, rather than running away, the absolute best thing you can do now is to sit down with the Scoutmaster, the two Scouts involved in the altercation (your son and the other boy), the other parental units, and figure out what happened and what caused the fight. It may be this other kid is a real jerk and needs to be removed from the Troop. It may be that your son played a significant role in the confrontation. It may be it was all a dumb mistake that got out of hand. But until you get to the root of it, you will never know, and it could linger unresolved in your sons mind. It will do a huge amount of good for your son to resolve the situation. Do not instill a pattern that running away from a difficult situation is the best way to resolve something. Another truth is that not all Troops prohibit women for serving as Scoutmasters. You may want to find another Troop that will accept you as a volunteer. Or you may stick with this Troop and change it. Both have costs and benefits. I wish you and your son the best, and hope you do not abandon Scouting. Please post again and let us know how things turn out.

They say hell hath no fury like a woman scorned... but I'd recommend staying out of the way of a mom driven to see her son make Eagle. Little remains in the carnage of her wake... and sadly truth can be one of the first casualties!

I would be much more comfortable to have the hikes be part of a Troop activity. The problem with having the kid just walk around on his own or with mom and dad, is how do you know he actually did all 5 10-milers and then the 20-miler?

We integrate 5 10-mile hikes into our annual camping trips and do a 20-miler every other year. We have quite a few Scouts that get the Hiking mb as we are doing the hikes anyway.

We have 7 Webelos crossing over in April. They will be joining two established Patrols - 3 will join the Dragons, 4 will join the Cobras. Who decides who goes in which Patrol? Not the Scouts, Leaders, or Parents. The Sorting Hat decides. The Sorting Hat was instituted and became popular back in the days of the first couple books of Harry Potter, and has now become an established part of the Troop culture. At their first Troop meeting, I'll put 7 slips of paper in the hat, 3 labeled Dragon & 4 labeled Cobra. The Scouts come forward before the Troop, a slip is pulled from the hat, and off they go while the Patrol they are joining goes wild yelling and clapping. How can anyone complain when it was clearly the hat that made the decision?!

I have two sleeping bags. A winter bag, rated to -20F and a summer bag that's good for temps above 50F. I usually take the summer bag May to September, and the winter bag October to April. But that will vary depending on temps. I find it's better to have the winter bag open or sleep on top if the night is warm than to sleep cold in the summer bag. I sleep much better warm than cold!

I guess I'm really not trying to make access a huge deal and get all hyper about it, I just would prefer to limit access to the Troop, and not do a wide broadcast of the photos. Limited access appears to be completely opposite of what many of the web photo sharing sites want to do - that is to share widely! I appreciate the info provided here, and am leaning toward Photo Bucket, although Picasa is interesting as well.

I can remember going hiking and backpacking with my buddies when I was in high school without any real plan. We'd just head out and go where we felt like it. We see a mountain that we hadn't climbed, and we do it. We'd get on top and maybe see a lake off in the distance and go there. We stay for a while if we could catch fish, if not, we'd go somewhere else. We explored, and it was really fun. We'd finally head home when we ran out of food. The idea of such an outing today is outrageous! We file a hike plan and follow it. We let someone know where we are going and when we expect to get there. We do not spontaneously head off just because a mountain or lake or canyon looks cool. We stay on the trail. We do not explore. The very idea! Just maybe, E61, they were intending to stay on the lake perimeter, but then they saw an island off in the distance, and maybe someone said, "hey, let's go check it out!" And maybe the waves were fun to plow through, and maybe the capsizing was really cool! But maybe not. Maybe kids these days are just too well trained to even think of such a thing.

Thanks for the info. I guess I envision on-line photo access for the Troop -- Scouts and their families and Scouters. I really do not want anyone else to have access to the photos. I do not care if those who have access copy or save the photos, in fact it's fine if they do. Myself and other adults take lot's of digital photos on outings and at Troop events. I would like the Troop, especially the Scouts and their families to be able to see these photos.

Does anyone share photos of Troop events & activities on the internet? If so, how? I've been looking at Flickr, but wonder if I can control access to Troop members only. Are there better ways to securely share photos? Thanks!