SMT224

Well... so much for this idea, what with the Swine Flu knocking at our door.

Likely nix as well for packaging it as facilitating an infectious disease merit badge at summer camp.

Like they say in the movies, "When pigs fly"!

Last year at summer camp, one of our new Scouts (only child with very doting parents) was very homesick and extremely nervous that his parents would die while he was at camp. He was pretty much ok during the day, but had a very hard time at night. He would come and stand outside the leaders tents saying that he had to go home, NOW. We told him to go back to his tent, and things would be better in the morning. His parents had given him a cell phone so he could text them to make sure they were ok. It apparently was supposed to be something he did only once or twice a day to assure himself mom and dad were still alive and ok. Unfortunately, he ended up staying up until all hours of the night sending a steam of text messages home. Which apparently they answered (a big part of the problem!). I did not even know this was going on until Mom picked him up and told me. Maybe it kept him going, but I tend to think it just delayed him getting over the hump of homesickness and finding he can be ok and even happy without mom and dad. Not sure how much of this was the parents missing him or visa versa. He dropped out of the Troop a few months later, saying he'd rather play sports. Like Eagle 1982 says, Scouts ain't for everyone.

I'm going to be very clear with the parents this year that constant communication with home is not the best way to overcome homesickness. My first year as a Scoutmaster I naively allowed a homesick Scout to talk to his Mom on the camp phone - he immediately started crying and told his mom, "I miss you!" Over the phone, I heard a wail from Mom and she cried, "I miss you too!" The kid melted into tears and was on his was home the next day.

Moral of this story: If you can pry these kids away from Mom & Dad and get them to camp, don't let them phone home!!

Every time we get out of the way and let the Scout lead or do a program we are delighted to see how well they do! Baden-Powell was right! If they let it happen, I think the cautious adults in your Troop would be shocked at how well you VP can handle themselves. And perhaps therein lies the problem.

We had an ASM several years ago that drove fast going to and coming back from camping trips. After a while, no one but his son would ride with him because his driving scared them. The Scouts sorta self selected and put themselves in other vehicles, often with their parents full concurrence. I talked to him several times, asking why he was compelled to get there so quickly when there was nothing to do until until I got there with the trailer - and I drove the speed limit. But he still flew from place to place, and would be impatiently waiting for us when we arrived. We all gave a collective sigh of relief when he moved away.

Scouts most all want to ride with their friends, but they will make decisions based on their own welfare as well. Rarely do we have more seats than Scouts - usually just enough, so all the vehicles are filled. As long as the driver is safe, Scouts are happy to be riding with their friends.

In the recent past on this forum someone gave an example of a vehicle lottery - the names of the Scouts going on the activity would be placed in a hat, and each drive would pull names based on the number of seats in his vehicle. This way the Scouts don't end hanging out with the same guys all the time and can get to know Scouts they don't always hang out with. However, every time I've brought this up at PLC, it have been vigorously vetoed - they want to ride with their friends! Nevertheless, imposition of such a scheme may help your situation if it get out of control -- random is almost always seen as fair.

Lisabob -

Do you do a debriefing (thorns & roses, good & bad) after a camping trip? If so, it may be a good time for the Scouts to let the adults know what they thought of their escort service. Perhaps the adults need to hear it directly from the Scouts.

Perhaps you, via your son, could work with the Venture Patrol in addressing the concerns of the adults that believe 4 adults are needed to be with the Scouts at all times, "in case anything happens". What is the level of training in Venture Patrol? How many of the Scouts have the First Aid Merit Badge? How many have E-Prep? How many have wilderness Survival? By letting the concerned adults know that there are a sufficient number trained Scouts to handle an emergency may calm the adults. Perhaps the Scouts are even better trained than the adults! Just being an adult does not endow one with the training needed to handle an emergency better than a Scout who has been trained in First Aid.

Also, suggest the Venture Patrol carry 2 high powered radios to call for help should an situation arise that is beyond their ability. The four adults, if they still insist on being near the Scouts could follow at 1/4 - 1/2 mile -- close enough to zoom in if someone really needed their help, but far enough away to give the Scouts some peace.

I can only assume this is a trip to an incredibly hazardous area. Will you be crossing volcanic vents? Glacial fissures? Exploring uncharted caves? Or maybe somewhere with an abundance of wild and hungry animals? Perhaps a jungle trek in to the headwaters of the Amazon? Must be an ascent to a previously untouched peak. At any rate, I hope to God that each and every member of the expedition will be carrying at a minimum a top rated GPS Personal Locator Beacon - at only $599 it's quite a bargain considering that someone could very well wander off and never be seen again. Also, make sure that each and every member of the team carries at least a 55 gallon barrel of water - you just never know when thirst might strike. I can only assume several helicopters will be circling the area at all time - just in case. And by 10 adults... you do mean 10 adult per Scout right? I mean, you just never know when someone could slip and fall or get hungry or bored and need instant edutainment. Well, the Scouts may just make it back to do it again real soon. No doubt they will learn so much. Good Luck!

Thanks nolesrule... mp3... of course. Except not in our Troop! No electronics outside the tent! The idea of a Scout doing any kind of a Scout activity (except maybe riding in a vehicle to an activity) with an mp3 and ear buds is out of the question!

We really like the switchback pants, and the new belt is so much better than the old one. But as to the new shirts... I overheard a couple of older Scouts harassing one or their buddies that came in with a new shirt... the were asking him about the "breast" pockets... I'm sorry, but if I really filled those expansion pockets, they would hang down to my belly! I think they just look silly! And as to the arm pocket... well, what are you supposed to put in there anyway? A GPS? Compass? Gum? flashlight? Shirley not a pack of cigarettes! Who did they talk to when the ran the beta test on this stuff? Seriously!

This should not be a deal breaker - he can deal with his issues and camp too. Lot's of kids have similar issues and still go camping and to summer camp and have fun being a Scout.

Pull-ups (GoodNights) work great at night to keep the sleeping bag dry. If he's got to pee and there's no buddy available, he can just find a tree within sight of the campsite. Yea, he does need a buddy to go the latrine, but otherwise, a tree works just fine. And if he wakes up at night, a tree just outside the tent works too.

gwd-scouter --

Are these kids from one-child families? Over the years, I have had the most difficulties with homesickness from kids that do not have siblings. It seem like (and of course there are exceptions the rule) the bigger the family, the happier the kids is to get away from everyone and go camping or spend a week at summer camp. If these parents have no others kids at home to take care of, it may be they have no life other than taking care of their one kid. Or maybe not.

At any rate, I'd sit down with each parent individually and talk about how great an opportunity summer camp is to start developing an independent and self reliant young man. Not to mention, all their friends from Webelos will be there, and by not going they will miss out on all those fun times. Plus, by not going to summer camp, he will be way behind in terms of advancement. Perhaps if they can see it from their kids point of view - that summer camp is not just a week away from home, but an important time in his Scouting life - they will be able to let go.

I've found that the first summer camp is really important to bond the new Scouts to the Troop and get them going on advancement. We had five Webelos Crossover last night, and all appear to be going to summer camp. However, some parents approached me after the ceremony to say they were not sure if they could afford camp. Luckily, we do have some $$ put aside for a campership, so I think all should be going. Could that be the problem with the new parents in your Troop - they can't afford it, but are too embarrassed to say?

Good Luck!

On our last camping trip, the Senior Scouts made an excellent cobbler (more like dump cake if you want to get technical) with pineapple cake mix, canned pineapples, and coconut soda. Pineapples on bottom (DO lined with foil), cake mix, with the soda poured on top. In the coals with a shovel full of coals on top for about 10 minutes, then out of fire with coals on top for another 20 minutes. It was amazing! We will do this one again!

Just got back from work travel, and one night for dinner our group went out to one of those Brazilian roasted meat restaurants - the kind they slice the meat off the skewer right on to your plate... Anyway, one of the things they had on a skewer was a whole pineapple without the peel, roasted just like the meat. It was really good!! It made me think I'd like to roast pieces of pineapple over coals like marshmallows. But I like gwd-scouters method of just tossing the entire fruit in -- sounds so good I think I'll try it on our next camping trip!

In related news, on our last camping trip, the Senior Scouts made an excellent cobbler with pineapple cake mix, canned pineapples, and coconut soda. It was amazing!

A couple years ago our District developed an SPL Round Table at the same time as the regular RT. The idea was that SPL's from all over the District could get together and coordinate upcoming activities and discuss common issues and problems. Nice idea, and worked for a while, but was finally dissolved to lack of attendance. I think the many of the SPL's were interested, but other obligations (homework!) did not allow them yet another evening devoted to Scouts. Further, I often go to RT by myself, so there was no way to bring the SPL (2-deep).

As others have said, SPL's do not attend our RT.

Thanks for your replies and advice. I'll discuss it with the Committee member at the appropriate time. For the moment it's off the radar, so I'm letting it ride...

Well, my 15 yr old daughter finally got me signed up on Facebook, and immediately added one of her friends, who is also the SPL in our Troop. An influential Troop Committee member, who also happens to be my wife, said that it was inappropriate for me to have any Scouts as a "friend". She believes this is contrary to Youth Protection rules, and I should immediately remove him.

Any thoughts on this? Do others have Scouts as "friends"?

Thanks.

We do our planning for the next calendar year in September. Reservations and outing details are finalized in October and November so by December we have a calendar with all activities fully mapped out for the coming year.

We try to have our outings on the 2nd week-end of the month, but are flexible to coordinate with District activities. But once dates are set, that's it - rain or shine, snow or no snow, off we go!

After a couple camp-outs with siblings (as well as mom & dad) that turned into family camping trips, (not Scout camp-outs), the PLC discovered they actually do have power and and just said no. No more little brothers or sisters, no more mom & dad, and only Trained Adults unless a parent is needed for the two-deep.

We now have one camp out each year that allows Webelos and their parental units, but that's it.

They (PLC) even went further and rated all camping trips (easy, medium, hard) with attendance restricted by experience (number of camping trips a Scout has been on). This last ruling after a brutal November camping trip with a couple new Scouts who then promptly quit.

Beavah -

Like the original post in this discussion, an "incident" prompted our Committee to add the Scout signature on our activity permission slip. Before that it was all oral.

Now that it's both, I find that it just adds a level of clarity of the kind of behavior we expect. I resisted at first - for the reasons you and others have given - but have actually come to like it. It requires that the parent and Scout sign together, so it's clear to them both that the Scout needs to behave according to the Scout Law to participate in the activity. As I said earlier, I believe their signature strengthens the contract in their mind, and signing it in front of a parent adds to that.

Nevertheless, I agree with you, our word is the real binding contract.

Our Troop goes on at least 13 outings every year, and just before we load up vehicles, after the SPL calls a final fall-in and the Scouts are standing at attention, I give my Scoutmaster speech letting them know that all of us are bound by the Scout Law. Not just the Scouts, but adults as well. This to me is a verbal contract. To add a signature to this strengthens the contract. Having a Scout sign something that says the same thing as the verbal contract lets them know we are serious and this, and it's not just a family or school outing - it's a Scout outing and they are expected to behave as Scouts.

Below is pasted from our "permission slip"... the bottom section is for the Scout to put his name in and sign. We added after some behavior outside of the Scout Law. Have never had to use, but would be the rational for calling a parent at 2:00 am.

In case of emergency, I can be reached by phone at: _____________________. My cell phone number is: ______________________. If I cannot be reached, please contact:

__________________________________ at ____________________________.

Parent printed name: _________________________________________________

Parent signature: ______________________________________ Date: ________

I, ___________________________________________ understand I am bound by the Scout Law on this Scout activity. I agree to be held accountable for my actions, and understand there will be consequences if I violate the Scout Law.

Scout signature: _____________________________________Date: ___________

Thanks for all the replies -- I really appreciate it.

We did a photo montage for the funeral, so will likely put up again for the Eagle Ceremony. We will be having the ceremony at the site he did his project, so all appropriate folks will be there.

I'm friends with the family, and they have fully agreed to ceremony and date, but are still so full of emotion they are not sure if they can attend.

I agree, you'd think after two year the emotions would have lessened, but tears come from all of us as we sit down to discuss what to do in the ceremony. And being with the family is even worse -- like it happened yesterday. We are hoping this ceremony will be a closing for those of us in the Troop - if not somewhat for the family.

I will give the Senators office a call tomorrow and discuss in a friendly manner. No reason to be hostile, but... If it was just a Representative, I wouldn't be so upset, but a Senator? Come on, they've got six years to get it together! I'll let you know what happens.

Almost two years ago a 17 year old Scout in our Troop was killed by a drunk driver. He had completed everything for his Eagle except his BOR and ECOH. Based on our District and Council recommendations, National awarded the Eagle Award. He was very popular in the Troop, and we are all still distraught, and the family to this day can hardly talk about it. We have finally decided on a date for something like a ECOH, but more of a celebration of his time in Scouting, and, we hope a closure for some of us. The family is not even sure if they will be able to be there - it is still just too much for them. I looked into the "Spirit of the Eagle" Award, but discovered that the application has to be received within six months of death... six months? We barely had our heads out of the water of grief a year after. What a stupid requirement...

Anyway, in February, after we had decided on a date for the ceremony, I sent out "Eagle Letters" to Congressional and Governmental officials, and others appropriate to this Scout. I was very explicit in my letter that this Scout had been killed by a drunk driver and I would appreciate a certificate or letter to present to the grieving family. Well, I guess no one read that, as now I'm getting the standard letters congratulating the Scout himself on a great job and how this will help him for the rest of his life, etc, etc... There is no way I'm giving something like this to the family! Is it too much to ask for an appropriate response? I'm especially upset by a letter from our U.S. Senator that arrived yesterday, and am considering calling his office and letting them know that while I appreciate the time and effort they took to prepare the letter, what seriously do they expect me to do with it? Leave it at the grave? Are they trying to talk to the dead? Or should I just let it go, as I know my feelings and likely response are full of emotion...

We do our program planning for the following year in September, and thoroughly discuss what will be happening and where we will be going. At our first meeting in January we distribute a Troop Activity Calendar with all Troop activities & meetings for the entire year. It has photos of the Troop over the past year and is meant to be hung in the kitchen or bulletin board. With few exceptions, we have our camping trip or activity on the second week-end of the month, so Scout activities can be worked into busy schedules. As SM, I send an email to all Scout families and Scouters at the beginning of each month briefly describing the activities happening that month. In PLC, we discuss monthly activities and who will be doing what. The SPL makes announcements in Troop meetings on what is coming up next as we prepare for activities. We repeat activity announcements at the end of the Troop meeting as well, with specific attention to times and meeting places. Before all camping trips and outings I send out an email completely describing the specifics of the activity. We require Scouts to be at the two Troop meetings (when we prepare menus and check equipment) before a camping trip in order to attend, something that is announced over and over by the SPL and SM.

Despite all this, there are always a few Scouts and parents that stand there at the end of a Troop meeting and say, "What? A camping trip? Oh, is there a camping trip? When's this? Where are we going?" I smile and tell them all about the activity and then walk away shaking shake my head. I guess for some folks the cost of paying attention is way out of their mental budget!

Well... thinking about Scouts and talking about Scouts on this forum is one thing, but how do you show it? How many have a Scouting bumper sticker? Or more than one? How about a BSA license plate? How do you show the world you're proud to be a Scouter?