SMT224

Last year at summer camp, one of our new Scouts was given a cell phone by mom & dad - so he could call or text them if he missed them. None of the adult leaders knew he had a cell phone, as he kept it in his tent. He was very homesick and did not have a good camp experience. Apparently his parents had intended him to check in once or twice a day with the cell phone, but what happened was that he staying up until 2 or 3 in the morning sending a steam of text messages home... which were dutifully answered by mom (a big part of the problem!). I did not even know this was going on until Mom picked him up and told me. No wonder he sometimes seemed tired and unhappy during the day. Lack of sleep no doubt compounded his homesickness. Plus the constant contact with the parents delayed him getting over the hump of homesickness and finding he can be ok and even happy without mom and dad. He dropped out of the Troop a few months later, saying he'd rather play sports.

This year I'm going to be very clear with the parents that cell phone will not be needed at camp and constant communication with home is not the best way to overcome homesickness. But, as others have said, if the parents decide that little Johnny needs a cell phone to call home, there's not much I can do about it - I'm not going to search them and their bags!

I agree that banning will not work - if they feel compelled to bring a cell phone, it's easy enough to toss one in a pocket or pack. Far better to teach how and when to use. And to have the Scouts set the rules. This is be something we will be discussing at the next PLC.

Well, yes, we can sit back here and shake our heads and say "What the heck we they thinking, doing something crazy like that?"

But who among us here hasn't been in some kind of a situation where we had to decide - usually very quickly - do we stay or do we go? Do we cancel the trip, or do we head out? After a few times of canceling a trip and then the sun comes out and you feel like a wimp, you start pushing the envelope a bit harder. And you discover that you really can set up camp in the dark, in the rain, in the wind, on a hill side, and the Scouts like the adventure, and everything comes out fine.

From the news reports it sounds like this was a pretty clear... a "cancel the trip and go home" should have conclusion to that decision making process, but we don't know what they were thinking. Maybe the leaders didn't want to seem like quitters in front of their Scouts. Maybe they had pushed the envelope a time before and figured they'd be ok this time. Maybe this trip had been scheduled since last September, and they had been working towards it for weeks, and just could not let go.

A few years ago our Troop was camping on the Atlantic coast, and a tropical storm was moving north. We all watched the weather until the very last moment, and when it looked like the storm was moving out to sea, we decided that a little rain wasn't going to stop us, as we did this trip every year, and we were going. Well, the storm did not move out to sea, and while no one was hurt, we were completely and totally drenched by huge quantities of horizontal rain. Tents were fill of water, and absolutely everything was soaked. We managed to get a breakfast cooked on Saturday morning, then dumped everything in the trailer and came home to spend the next week sorting and drying our gear. While we were back at the church parking lot waiting for parents, digging through sopping gear, a mom came up to us and furiously demanded to know, "What were you thinking?"

CubScoutJo -

Fun idea!

I could see an opposite "mad lib" letter coming from camp to mom - a fun thing for the Scouts to fill in while sitting around the camp fire.

Cub Scouts train boys to be Boy Scouts, Boy Scouts train young men to be leaders.

I agree that those who have come into the Troop from Cubs "fit in" better and are already "indoctrinated" in the basic Scouting ways. It seems like we have about a 90% retention rate with the Scouts who were Cubs, and 50% with those who join with no Cub experience. Retention drops significantly the older a boy is when he joins.

I'm fresh back from a week-end camping trip, and watched 25 Scouts doing what they love - running around the woods searching for orienteering markers, cooking with their Patrol, sitting around the fire, chopping wood, fishing off the pier, toasting (or burning) marshmallows, playing man-hunt in the dark, and then collapsing in a tent and whispering 'till all hours with their best friend. If I ask them what they like about Scouting, camping trips like this are it. This is why they do it.

But on this same camping trip, I watched (with great pride) these same wild boys clean themselves up, put on their Class A uniforms, and conduct a remembrance ceremony for a Scout from our Troop who was killed by a drunk driver. They were solemn, respectful, and serious.

This to me is the core of Scouting - having a great and wild time in the woods with friends, and then easily shifting gears and letting character show though. There is no way that what happened this weekend is archaic and irrelevant to these techno boys. And there is no other program in existence that can teach boys what Scouting can.

My vote on this discussion -- don't change it - the boys like it just the way it is!

Last year I printed out post cards for the Scouts to send home from summer camp on Wednesday. They liked doing it, and the parents were happy to get some communications from their kids.

So I'm going to do it again this year. Thought I'd toss it out for others, and see if anyone else here has done this as well. Also, other ideas for fun and exciting questions or answers??

On one side of the post card is the address info, and on the other are questions with a number of answers the boys can circle, and then a small area for a few comments.

Some boys were very honest - whether they liked camp or not, and others just circled the most answers they could find. All in all they liked doing it, despite having some trouble figuring out how to write out their home address!

The Questions:

Dear _________, Date:________

Im having fun at camp: yes, no, not sure yet, what me worry?

Went swimming today: yes, no, not sure, havent found pool yet

Total number of mosquito bites: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000+

Getting enough food: yes, no, not sure yet, havent found food yet

Dining hall food: tasty, good, bad, alive, biohazard, unidentified, yummy

The weather: hot, cool, nice, rainy, sunny, breezy, freezing, not sure

Merit Badge Classes: fun, lots-of-work, interesting, easy, boring

My tent: cozy, buggy, dark, smelly, nice, scary, inhabited by Trolls

Troop fire: tiny, average, big, huge, massive, forest fire, like 1000 suns

Bottles of water drank (Pool/Lake water doesn't count): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Bought at Trading Post: candy, ice cream, knife, t-shirt, flash light

Send: money, candy, ice cream, cookies, TV, emergency crews, the Army

Summer Camp: great, fun, too long, too short, just right, not sure yet

Much Love,

Greetings Slack-jawed Troglodyte! Welcome to the campfire!

Thanks for the Camp Chef info. The Scouts like the idea of the feet, and so we'll give them a try. I'll report back by and by as to how they work.

Just back from a week-end camping trip, and the two Lodge ovens were in constant use. The Scouts are really excited about each Patrol getting its own DO!

The older Scouts in our Troop have refused to wear the new shirts, citing a high level of discomfort with the "breast" pockets...

I concur with removal and return to "normal" pockets.

Hope it happens!

Has anyone had specific experience with the "Camp Chef Deluxe Dutch Oven"? This is the one with the little feet on the lid so it can be flipped over and used as a skillet?

Thanks!!!

Thanks for the input & recommendations.

I agree about Lodge products... I have a 14" myself and take it on all out campouts. Nevertheless, a Scout is thrifty... when I see that I could buy three of those Camp Chef DOs for the price of one Lodge, I gotta stop and think...

We are looking to purchase 3 new 12" DO's for the Troop. We have bought Lodge in the past, so looking at the "Lodge Logic Boy Scout Camp Dutch Oven". Does anyone one have this one?

Has anyone had experience with "Camp Chef"? I'm looking at the Deluxe model with feet on the lid so it can be used as a skillet. I found it for $34 online, which seem like a good price... or not?

Other brands I should look at?

Thanks!!!

So pinkpooj...

Since you seem to have some real issues with the Boy Scouts, perhaps you could be so kind as to identify any other organization in existence today that teaches teenage boys how to prepare a balanced menu, shop for food using limited funds, cook an excellent meal over an open campfire, competently use a compass and map, camp in the heat of summer and cold of winter, and start a fire without any matches in any conditions at all.

Maybe you know of another program that fits your discerning criteria that provides young men with friendship and challenges in a non-competitive learning environment that teaches hands-on life skills.

Perhaps you can tell me of another program that gives urban youth a safe and supportive situation that gets them out in nature every month of the year.

You can righteously preach about morally conflicting biblical stories and your own morality, but stop a moment and think... is there anything like the Boy Scouts today?

You say you were a Cub and Boy Scout. Did you ever go camping? Did you ever build a pinewood derby car? Did you ever go to summer camp and earn merit badges? Did you make friends? Do you remember camping in a tent? Do you know how to use a map? Or compass? Or build a fire? Or cook? Look back for a moment... was there any other organizations that would have done all that -- for you?

Well...?

gwd-scouter -

Yep, I've noticed the stale oil issue as well. Running some clean fresh oil around the oven a couple times before cooking in it seem to clean it up ok.

Stosh -

Interesting suggestion on beeswax... do you melt it out of the Dutch Oven before using? Or do you cook with the beeswax still in it?

Thanks...

As others have said, the Dutch Over is great - lots of recipes on the the web. It's surprising easy, and you can toss on the fire for most of the cooking, which is fun. Then make a cake in it after dinner! And clean up is not that hard - we fill the Dutch Oven with water after cooking something in it, let it soak for a while, and then scrape clean with an old credit card or similar. If its cold, put back on fire for a few minutes so the cleaning water is a bit warm. Rinse with clean water and oil it so it does not rust. We do not use soap, and our Dutch Ovens get clean with just water and scraping.

Here's a one pot meal that is very popular in our Troop: Boil water, cook spaghetti, dump out water, add sauce with meatballs, and serve in large taco shells. Its really good and no dishes (other than the one pot) to clean up. The combination of the crunchy taco shell and spaghetti and meatballs is surprisingly tasty. And of course the name of a dish says so much about those eating it... spaghetti tacos, bloody worms in a basket, or the ever popular, crunchy guts.

fleetfootedfox -

This is a sad situation. The SM sounds like a real bully. Like others here, I suggest you look for another Troop. Clearly he has a gang of followers who like to stay up with him and party - no way they're gonna stop their fun just 'cause the other leaders and Scouts need to sleep. Is there a bottle being passed around? It sounds like it.

But direct confrontation? Forget it - he's too far gone. Sounds like this guy is completely full of himself. Writing a letter 'cause someone got going at 5 after he was up 'till 3 making noise? Completely out of line.

Find another Troop.

We head for bed around 10 or 10:30, with few older Scouts and adults staying up to watch the embers and talk quietly. I never hear them, and they head for their tents 11 or 12 latest.

We come across a Troop like yours every so often at a camporee. No consideration for anyone else - yelling and making noise well after midnight. To me, they have missed one of the key parts of the Scout Law - a Scout is courteous.

On a regular week-end camping trip the Scouts are usually excited about Saturday activities, so no problem getting up and going. But after a few slow leavings on Sunday morning, the PLC imposed a very simple rule: no breakfast until tent and all gear are stowed in the trailer. Now Scouts get up and get going, because they want to eat - the longer you take the more unhappy your tent mate, 'cause he can't eat until your gear is out of the tent and you help put it away. Peer pressure and hunger seems to have solved our problem.

Not to be out done by the Brits, the huge US medical journal publisher EBSCO has just launched a Swine Flu web site with lots of H1N1 info.

More for the curious and paranoid!!

http://www.ebscohost.com/dynamed/swineflu/

Our Troop meets all year and goes camping every month except December. The numbers attending meetings and outings does decrease during the summer, but there are still plenty of boys who show up to meetings and want to camp in June and August. We are at summer camp in July.

Here is a good resource for keeping up on the science of H1N1 from the British science group CABI. They usually charge very high fees to access their databases, but have opened everything up and put together a "dash board" with continuously updated info. I found the "case heat map" very interesting. Plenty of info here for the curious and paranoid!

http://www.netvibes.com/cabialerts#About

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

-- attributed to Socrates by Plato

"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and

respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint" -- Hesiod, 8th century BC

Yep, there's risks in everything. All kinds of things can go wrong at the worst time. Aron Ralston's crushing experience and loss of an arm was terrible would have been significantly if not completely mitigated had he been with a buddy. No doubt about that. But the guy still hikes solo! He became the first person to solo climb all of Colorado's mountains over 14,000 feet in the winter!

Basementdweller -- Yes & Yes.

You're right - it does take a lot of effort. Effort to raise the animal, effort to feed it and clean up after it, effort to kill and clean it, effort to clean up after the slaughter, and then effort to roast it. But I think kids these days should see part, if not all the steps involved that culminates in eating meat. It's far more than just the effort of ordering a plate of BBQ pork. Hence my original post. And yes, I fully understand it's never gonna happen - for a whole bunch of reasons, many of which are listed in this discussion. Nevertheless, I still think it's something everyone should experience.

asm 411 -

Sounds like a good idea - always good to have the PLC develop guidelines.

Can you post them here in their entirety? This may help cathyjh in her current situation by having the Scouts weight in - not just the adults!

Thanks!

Hey cathyjh -

I'm seriously interested in what prompted your original question...

Do you want to prohibit adults carrying cell phones? If so, why? What happened?

Or, did your son's SM prohibit adults from carrying cell phones? If so, why? What happened?

Thanks!!

The Buddy System is the rule in Scouts, but this guy was not on a Scout-sponsored outing. Was he taking a chance going solo, yes. But solo hiking and backpacking shouldn't be discouraged just 'cause he's a Scout. He was probably way better off since he had some training and was able to deal with getting a bit off track for a while. When I was a teenager and far into my 20's I backpacked all over northern New Mexico and southern Arizona - solo. And rarely did I stay on trails! Did get lost? Of course not! Sometimes I didn't know exactly where I was for a while, but to me that was part of the adventure - how long did it take and what did I need to do to find my self again on the USGS topo map. And then to confirm that's really where I was. I think we get way too hyper these days assuming the worse will happen, and thus deny kids wonder confidence building experiences.

I could see asking adults to put their phone away during the campout (or set to vibrate in a pocket) so they are not a distraction to the activities, but not bring them? I was on a campout where a Scout was injured, and we really needed a cell phone. Three leaders, all with different cell phone companies, and only one got a signal.

Why would you want adults not to have a cell phone?