SMT224

Oh, also...

Do not sleep in the clothes you've been wearing during the day - you will have a miserable night. I strip and put on the long undies I'll be wearing the next day.

And eat cheese just before bed - this will keep you warm all night!

bilerat -

Get rid of all the cotton! Go with synthetic (polypropylene) or wool.

For winter camping: COTTON KILLS!!!

It absorbs sweat and moisture from the environment and holds it, keeping you COLD!!!

For winter camping jeans and cotton sweat pants with a cotton t-shirt & sweatshirt are a formula for a miserable time!

Why "do" anything?

There are a few Scouts in our Troop that are similar to what you've described - not going on as many camping trips as they used to, not participating in other activities, missing Troop meetings...

Well, the fact of the matter is that they have other things going on in their lives now - sports, girls, jobs. If they are more interested in these things, there is little we can do to to make Scout more interesting.

Our past attempts to pull such Scouts into activities they are just not interesting in has not been good for anyone. If they'd rather be with their girl, or at the game, dragging them on a camping trip results in a boat anchor that drags everyone down.

These guys chose not to attend our last few camping trips, and the younger guys had a great time! They got to do their thing without the older "bummers" sitting around the fire and telling them what to do.

If they can come and be an active part in the Scout activity, great! Their experience, knowledge, and older-guy-coolness makes it a better activity.

But if they don't want to be there and they're pissed about it, that attitude will affect and permeate into everyone on the activity. We find it's better if they just don't come if they don't want to.

Eventually they do come back, on their own terms and at their own time, and can join in making the Troop better for everyone. Until then, my experience is that forcing it just makes it worse.

Have you tried some serious polypropylene long underwear? I'm not talking about the thin stuff, but thick almost fleece pants and shirt? Then layer with a fleece sweater and wool pants. Wear wool socks with good sorel-type boots with foot warmers, a good jacket, gloves, and of course a warm hat.

Perhaps your past negative experiences came from not being dressed warmly enough?

Once I learned how to dressed for winter camping I found even our campout last year at -9F was not bad as I was so well insulated. I layer so I can open up when I start to get hot and could potentially sweat, and then add layers back on as I cool off.

I would recommend a big bottle in your tent over a heater!

Wisconsin Tourism Federation changes its name to Tourism Foundation of Wisconsin.

Thanks!!

Looks like fun!

We'll try it!

Could someone provide some details on the "paper rockets" discussed above? What are they? How do you make them? Is there a link that would give some additional information?

Thanks!!

Usually Vanity are some sort of a personal puzzle known only to the owner of the vehicle. Sometimes it's fun to try and figure out what the combination of letters and numbers might mean, but ofter you just don't know.

Yesterday and today, I saw a couple of plates that seemed pretty unambiguous as to their meaning, and I'm amazed the state actually printed them. Both times I was driving with my two boys - both Scouts - and they had no trouble figuring out what these things meant.

BUCKOFF

NASTEA

Anyone else seen such vehicular messages? Or are these anomalies?

Nevertheless, I think these cross the line for a license plate.

... and you still ate the whole thing?

Cannibalism crosses the line for me.

But on reflection of this subject, and to be a bit blasphemous, what about the Eucharist?

Sacred cows make the best hamburger!

...Federals??

Ok... how about a real-world example:

By choice, our Troop does not sell popcorn, nor will we ever have anything to do with OA.

Are we heretics? Or Blasphemers?

Perhaps a reward of ice cream would be appropriate... if decorum allows.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Besides the ribbons & NHPA, are their other Awards folks have given Patrols that have done especially well?

Such as, say, ice cream?

UPDATE...

Well, we had 3 Scouts show up, out of a Troop of 30, to work our Troop table at the community fair. Several who said they'd be there didn't show. So it was mostly me and a few other adult leaders talking to the few folks who stopped by our table. Overall I'd say it was a bust...

An now... well, yea, I do feel like pulling those three Scouts up in front of everyone and giving them ice cream! And if someone feels bad about it, well then show up next time! What a bad SM I am!

Years ago we had two brothers in the Troop who were real trouble makers. They were not at all interested in bring Scouts, but their father had grown up in the Troop and was on the Committee, along with several other guys who had been in the Troop since they joined as kids.

These two were very disruptive in part because they didn't want to be there, but had no choice. Their parents apparently told them they had to be in Scouts or they got no other privileges. So they showed up and screwed around, but could care less about anything to do with Scouting.

I had just become SM after a year in the Troop as ASM, so was very new the whole thing, so was very naive about discipline. The established adult leadership caulked up the behavior of these two brothers as "boys will be boys", and resisted on imposing any discipline on the kids of their good friend.

Finally they were caught red-handed vandalizing a park facility on a camping trip, with nearly $1,000 assess by the rangers. The boys vehemently denied, despite numerous witnesses including myself and another ASM, and their parents completely believed their sweet little boys. Rather than waiting to be expelled, the parents and boys quite the Troop and refused to pay a cent of the damages they caused. The Committee didn't want to take any legal action, believing their old buddy had suffered enough, and paid for the damage out of the Troop budget.

Nevertheless, when those two left the Troop, it was as if the clouds had cleared and sun shined down on the Scouts. Without these two bullies, the Scouts started having much more fun at Troop meetings and on camp outs. Despite all the pain of the event, everyone was greatly relieved to have them gone.

Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I would have expelled those two far sooner, and ignored the good old boy protection network that was so well established in the culture of the Troop at that time. There were numerous times they did things I would now take action on. No reason to wait until it hits the fan. We now let the Scout Law be our guide and authority - step outside of it, and discipline will be imposed, starting with the PL, then SPL, PLC, ASM, SM, and eventually the Committee.

If a kid really does not want to be a Scout, forcing him to be there will not develop character!

I had two younger Scouts quit recently. Neither had advanced very far, not even finishing their Tenderfoot, and had gone on very few camping trips and outings. Both had gone to summer camp, and one had terrible home sickness that continued the entire week. The other seemed ok, but completed no merit badges.

When they quit, on separate occasions, both had stated bullying as their reason for leaving the Troop. When pressed, one said the older boys were sometimes rude and not very friendly. The other, who had been so homesick at summer camp, gave no specifics, but finally said he'd rather do sports.

And so they left. And their parents, while cordial, said that I should really consider doing something about the bullying problem the Troop so obviously had, as it was clearly driving boys away.

Well, from my vantage point, the problem is not bullying, but two boys who just were not Scouts. They could not, for whatever personal reason, embrace the camping and the achievement program connected to Scouting.

But bullying? No. I do not see it in these cases. But this issue has been raised to such a point that it's an easy out when the going gets tough.

So now I have two sets of parents, influential in our church community, that are convinced that mean boys in the Troop drove their poor sons to such despair that they had no choice but leave the Troop. And there is no way that I can tell them, who will stand by their children no matter what, the reality I have witnessed.

I concur with the overall concept of the Anti-Bullying efforts, but it's clearly a double edged sword.

A tragic event. My sympathies to his family, friends and Troop.

He was also an Eagle.

This may have been an outright hate crime, or perhaps he accidentally stumbled across a pot production operation or meth lab, both unfortunately common in rural forest areas.

eagle77 - Your story reminds me of something I did earlier this year...

We had done a particularly difficult orienteering course, and only a few Scouts finished it. Several Scouts had just quit and went back to camp to hang around the fire.

At the next Troop meeting I presented ice cream bars to the Scouts who had completed the course. After the meeting, several parents and committee members approached me and demanded I never do that again because some of the Scouts who didn't get ice cream felt bad about it. They told me only to give rewards if everyone gets one.

What's the point of that??!!

Ok... thanks!

What I thought as well, but figured I'd bring it up here as some Scouts had asked, and an ASM (who is also the parental unit of one of those Scouts) believes the Scouts deserve something (i.e. service hours) for showing up, and had mentioned it to those Scouts... so I'm doing a bit of damage control...

In addition to the service hours issue, we are having some balking regarding wearing the full uniform somewhere friends might see...

Our Troop will have a table at an up coming community fair. The purpose of the table will be to bring about community awareness of the Troop, distribute information an upcoming Fund Raiser, and invite interested boys to become Scouts. The fair lasts about 5 hours.

We are asking Scouts to sign up and be at the table for at least one hour if not two.

Question: does this time constitute service hours?

About 3 yrs ago, I ran a matrix on Excel of all the Scouts factored by birth date (age) and rank. I was surprised to see that with our existing system of elections (similar to that described here), there would likely be several Scouts who would age out without a chance to be SPL. I brought this up with the PLC, and after much discussion, we radically altered the way the SPL would be "elected".

Here is what our system has evolved to:

The oldest Scout in the Troop is offered the position of SPL provided he meets the following criteria: Star Scout, 4 years in Troop, has held at least one other leadership position, has attended Troop training & has attended or will attend NYLT soon, attends 85% of all Troop meetings, all PLC meetings, 75% of outings and service projects. The term of the SPL is either 6 months or a year, depending on the readiness of the next Scout to take on the position.

The PLC did most of the development of this system, and it seems to be working well. Some qualified Scouts have declined the position, while other Scouts do not meet the criteria (but are interested and are working at becoming qualified).

So far its working, and the transparency via the PLC seems to have been institutionalized. Its been completely accepted by the Scouts and is now part of our culture. It appears to motivate Scouts to meet the criteria by the time their number comes up so they are ready to accept the position. They also like it as it appears to be very fair - everyone (who qualifies) gets a chance to be SPL. I know this is not the way its supposed to be done, but its working for us.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions as to how you would have handled the situation...

mbrownkc7, I really like your idea of doing an Eagle project of better campsite markers and a map. One of the Scouts on this trip is gonna need one in about a year, so this could be a good way to vent his frustration.

Perhaps the lesson I'll bring to the Scouts at our Troop meeting this week is that just cause your right doesn't mean you need to engage... sometimes it's better to walk away.

About 10% of the Youth Group camping areas we frequent have some kind of a Pavilion. They can be nice in lieu of setting up a dining fly, and are especially good if it's a very rainy or snowy weekend. No extra monetary cost are involved, but as we've recently learned, other costs may be incurred...

At this point I feel like they are more trouble than they are worth!