SMT224

You Tube has a number of good videos on killing and skinning rabbits... for example,

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qMr7Js8e0

Squirrels too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66AVwthXgMA

As others here have wisely said, the program itself does not so much need tweaking... it's how the Pack and Den Leader implement the program.

Another critical issue is how well the AOL Den integrates with the crossover Troop. The more often the Scoutmaster visits the Den the better. The more Troop activities the Den visits the better. The AOL Cubs need to see what the Troop is and what the Scouts do to feel comfortable about the crossover and joining the Troop. Having Scout siblings / friends / neighbors in AOL Den can also really help the comfort level of the Cubs in crossing over and sticking with the Troop.

We let all our parents know that they are welcome on any Troop activity. But as others have said, not to be with him, but to be a very distance observer.

Several parents of newly crossed over Scouts have done this, and most do pretty well leaving their kid alone and hanging with the other adults.

However, some just can't help themselves and are absolutely compelled to help their son put up his tent, cook, clean up, or work on a skill. Worst is when they give him special treats that "he likes". Such behavior merits a Scoutmasters conference with both the parent and Scout.

As soon as they show interest in attending an outing, I put a volunteer application and pen in their hands and let them know we could use their help.

Some embrace this, other are just there to make sure their son is ok. As others have said, the transition from Cubs can be more difficult for the parents than the Scout!

What is best is a nice participatory balance between the drop-n-go parent and helicopter parent with full understanding of the ways and means of Scouting.

Thanks. We'll have to look at this more carefully.

AlFansome & BrentAllen, can you cite significant differences between the 11th and 12th editions that would result in an Eagle or rank advancement denied by National or a local council?

People can change... don't stuff someone into a hole and peg them as an atheist forever. What do you think "born again" means? Kids especially are exploring and reacting to their parents, peers, and our culture. Don't ever brand someone spiritually.

Which ever edition of the Scout handbook is current when the Scout joins the Troop is the one he stays with him for the rest of his career as a Boy Scout.

Updated editions or printings do not affect a Scout who starts with an older edition/printing.

For example, the majority of Scouts in our Troop were presented with the 11th Edition when they crossed over. That is the edition they started with and the one they will stick with until the leave the Troop. New and changed advancement requirements do not affect them.

Scouts who crossover this year will be presented with the 12th edition, and that will be the edition that will guide them until they leave the Troop.

Why make things more complicated than they need to be?

I just gotta weight in on this...

I've been on travel and busy with work/family/Scouting issues, so have not been able to be as active as I have in the past, but this issue deserves a few moments.

I think this is a brilliant idea! Thanks Mike F for the posting and discussing your experience.

If we can pull it off, and the PLC is interested, I'd love to do this in our Troop. If not rabbits, perchance squirrels?

I firmly believe that if you eat meat, at some point in your life you should be a part of how that life came to the plate. I thoroughly disagree with those who believe that kids should not be a part of a hunt and killing of an animal for food. I think everyone should know that meat really does not come from the supermarket.

If the Scout or parents have a problem with this, no problem, they do not need to participate.

For many years I've been advocating a summer camp pig, with a posting on the subject at this forum... http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=224051

Basically, a pig is in a sturdy pen at a summer camp, and gets all of the un-eaten food from the dinning hall. Scouts care for the pig as they earn the Animal Science merit badge. Each week the pig grows bigger as another group of Scouts care for it as they work on the merit badge. The health of the animal is monitored by a vet and feed adjusted / supplemented as needed. The last week of camp culminates mid-week as the Scouts learn how and animal is slaughtered. They then learn about the various cuts of meet and how to cook them. At the campfire on Friday night everyone enjoys a Pork BBQ.

Great job Mike F - you'd be welcome at our Troop anytime!!

An interesting article in this months National Geographic on a polygamous offshoot of the Mormon Church: the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS).

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/polygamists/anderson-text/1

Not sure if this group has anything to do with Scouts, but what struck me as I read the article were these two paragraphs:

"Although the issue of underage marriage within the church has garnered the greatest negative media attention, Dan Fischer has championed another cause, the so-called Lost Boys, who have left or been forced from the community and wound up fending for themselves on the streets of Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, and St. George, Utah. Fischer's foundation has worked with 300 such young men, a few as young as 13, over the past seven years. Fischer concedes that most of these boys were simply "discouraged out," but he cites cases where they were officially expelled, a practice he says increased under Jeffs.

"Fischer attributes the exodus partly to a cold-blooded calculation by church leaders to limit male competition for the pool of marriageable young women. "If you have men marrying 20, 30, up to 80 or more women," he says, "then it comes down to biology and simple math that there will be a lot of other men who aren't going to get wives. The church says it's kicking these boys out for being disruptive influences, but if you'll notice, they rarely kick out girls."

My impression after looking at the trailer a couple times is that its a very negative portrayal of Boy Scouts.

Why can't someone make an update to "follow Me Boys" that shows a more realistic picture of Scouting? Why always controversial?

I thought the Scout Camp was very unrealistic - even if the Scout camp was closing, they would still have Boy Scout tents. The tent scene looked very low budget. And the "first day" talk down by the lake - what a bunch of unhappy campers - quite the opposite you see at the Sunday night opening campfire.

And the firing range scene - I'm sorry, but I've never seen a range supervisor that would allow that to happen. Having guys shooting while someone is poking around the target area? No way. It makes the Boy Scouts look bad.

It looks like it was made by someone who got a hold of a boy scout uniform and had been to a commercial or YMCA camp, but never an actual Boy Scout camp.

But then who knows, it may end up being very positive in the end - if the kid sticks up for his rights and becomes Eagle despite all odds.

Does anyone know how we could advocate to keep these badges beyond 2010? Would a letter to National do? Who would we send it to?

I think these four should stick around and would be a great addition to the existing BSA merit badges.

Also, for anyone who's read "One Second After" by William Forstchen - knowledge of Signaling could be very important if electronics go down.

While evmori and others may be technically correct, the uniform is part of the Boy Scout culture, and for the most part an expected element of the experience.

I think teaching Scouts to look their best for an important meeting like a BOR is good for the boys and helps prepare them for job interviews and similar meetings.

Our Troop wears the full Class A uniform (sans sash) September - May and our Troop t-shirt June - August. Depending on circumstances, all of us will sometimes show up in jeans and the tan shirt, but 90% of the time we wear the tan shirt with Scout pants, often with a Scout belt & sox. Because the uniform is part of our Troop culture, all the Scouts know that the expectation for any BOR at any time is a complete uniform.

So it really does depend on the Troop and how the uniform integrates into their culture. For our Troop, requiring a full uniform for a BOR is not an added requirement - it's just the way it is.

Great idea well executed! Thanks for sharing!

I appreciate all the good comments.

It's clear the communication is the critical factor in reaching out to Scouts parents - some are just harder to get to than others!

As many have said, messages of a good time and inspiring pictures from this camp-out will help those who didn't go on this one decide to go on our next one.

The weather looks great for this week-end - snow, highs in the 20's and low's in the teens. So much better to have dry cold weather than temps in the high 30's and rain!

Now I just gotta hope some kid doesn't show up with a cotton sweatshirt and tennis shoes!

Scoutfish - We make almost the same stuff, but dump it on top of Frito's in bowl and call it Frito pie! The Scouts love it!

Barry -

That's a good point.

How do you recommend best communicating with the "Drop-n-Go" type of parent?

We make a Troop calendar with all the activity dates for the entire year and give to all parents. I send out email updates on a regular basis. We send materials home with the Scouts, We have an active PLC with regular meetings. And yet some parents seem never to get the message.

-- SMT224

As Scoutmaster for the past ten years, I've found there are three distinct entities I need to deal with on a regular basis - the Scouts, the Committee, and the Parents.

The Scouts are the easiest to deal with - they are usually very reasonable and will work hard to make things happen. The have a strong of fairness and can work well together as a team.

The Committee can sometimes be frustrating, and will dig their heals on some issues, but when presented with the appropriate justification will usually support the program and needs of the Troop.

But it is the Parents of the Scouts that are most frustrating to deal with. Of course there are a number of great parents who are now registered Scouters or volunteer to do all kinds of stuff. No problem with this set of folks.

It is the Parents that I rarely see that are so frustrating. From the point of view of making thing happen in the Troop and ensuring Scout participation, these particular Parents can be most aggravating.

Case in point - Since December, and all through January, the adult leaders and the PLC have been working with the Scouts to prepare for two winter camping trips - one in late January, the other in mid-February. We've spent a significant amount of time on the importance of having the right equipment to stay dry and warm. We especially stressed that gearing up for winter camping need not be expensive by searching for web bargains from places Campmor, Cabela's, and REI, as well as visiting thrift stores.

Well, after all the preparations at our Troop meetings, in addition to multiple emails I sent out detailing what the Scouts would need for cold weather camping, and exactly how to get this equipment for almost nothing, I was surprised that only 8 Scouts out of 25 are going on the trip. While there are some very legitimate reasons some of the Scouts are not attending, I have now learned that a number of parents prohibited their kids from going because "it would be too expensive" and they are "afraid he would get cold". Not surprising, all of these parents are the never seen Drop-n-Go folks. I would be surprised if they read any of my emails or even talked to their Scout about winter camping - they just made up their mind and that's that.

And while I'm ranting...

I will shortly be reminding the Scouts and parents (via Troop meeting discussions, email, and a flier sent home with the Scouts) about Summer camp and how much it will cost and when we need the money. We have worked out a payment plan by dividing the cost into 5 easy payments. Or they can pay all at once if they have the $$. But I know that come May, or even June, there will be 3 or 4 of the Drop-n-Go Parents that will come to me and say "Now when is summer camp? How much is it?" and then "Oh, I can't afford that! Don't you have some kind of campership?"

Ok. Thanks for letting me vent on this...

I know there's nothing to be done, just give their son the best Scouting experience possible, and don't expect anything from the Parents. But still...

This is really a strange situation. I've never heard of such a thing!

I can't imagine those five Scouts who have all the positions are able implement them correctly. Not to mention the unfairness of the situation for the other Scouts.

While I agree with those who suggest finding another Troop, I would first talk with the Scoutmaster about your concerns. If he reply's by saying that this is the way we do it in this Troop, you might suggest it's time to change. Print out this forum and show him that this is not the way other Troops do it and it does not fit well with the Scout Law. If he refuses to budge, then leave - but at least he know why.

I would highly recommend "The Scout's Outdoor Cookbook" by Christine & Tim Conners. It is written for Scouts and Scout Leaders and has a number of excellent Dutch Oven recipes, along with lot's of great other camp cooking ideas.

As others have said, the best way to get going is just to do it - find a recipe that looks good and try it out.

Each of our Patrols have their own Dutch Oven and cook something in it nearly every camping trip. They cook their meal and then a cake in a DO. The adults always cook in a DO

Here's a couple recipes that have worked well for us...

Most Basic Dutch Oven Breakfast

* 1 lb. bacon or sausage

* 2 or more cups of cheese

* 5 whole potatoes

* dozen eggs

Directions: In Dutch Oven, cook the bacon or sausage. Add diced potatoes and brown. Add eggs and cook until done. Put cheese on top and let melt. Feeds 5-7 people.

Hamburger Stroganoff

* 1 Lb. Hamburger

* 1 Can Cream of Chicken Soup

* 1 Can Cream of Mushroom Soup

* 1 Small Container of Sour Cream

* bread (optional: toast over fire)

Directions: In Dutch Oven, cook and drain hamburger. Add both cans of soup, stir until blended and hot. Add sour cream to taste. Serve over bread or toast.

Beef Stew

* 3 Lbs Beef Stew Meat (CUT UP AT HOME!!)

* 2 strips bacon cut up (CUT UP AT HOME!!)

* 2 Cups Water

* 2 chopped onions

* 5 Chopped Potatoes

* 5 Chopped Carrots

* Seasonings

Cook bacon slightly to get some grease. Add meat and brown. Add water and seasonings. Simmer for about an hour, then add vegetables and cook another 30 - 45 minutes or until done. Serves 6-8 people

Pineapple Dump Cake

* 1 can crushed pineapple

* 1 box yellow cake mix

* 1 can soda (coconut soda is great or cream soda)

Line Dutch over with foil. Dump in pineapple (including juice). Dump cake mix on pineapple. Sprinkle with soda. Put more heat on top than bottom, and cook for 30 - 40 minutes until brown.

One Scout a customer is sitting at a table in a restaurant. Another Scout is the waiter who comes to take his order.

The customer orders a hamburger. When the waiter brings it, the customers finds a hair in it. The waiter apologizes and brings another. This is repeated three times.

Finally the customer demands to see the cook. The waiter goes to get the cook who comes out looking baffled. The customer tells him there have been hairs in every hamburger he has been served, and demands to know how the cook makes his hamburgers.

The Scout playing the cook pretends he has a ball of meat in his hand by tossing it up and down a few times, then put it in his arm pit and closes his arm to his side, then catches the flattened hamburger when he opens his arm.

Laughs and groans to follow!

Hot chocolate with butter is great!

Best is hot liquid jello! This will warm you up better than anything else you can drink!

Once they achieve Life, some of our older Scouts seem to miss more meetings and camping trips, but do not drop out entirely. Per the above descriptions, they can easily become engaged in plenty of other activities, but still maintain a solid link to the Troop. Eventually they get their project done and earn Eagle.

Where we seem to loose Scouts is in the first year after cross over. This is the time they discover they really do not like being away from home and mom, or they just don't like camping. Some will say they dropped out because they'd rather do sports, but these are the same ones that cried for mom every night at summer camp and were miserable on camping trips.

This also the time that another group of boys discover they really like camping. They can't wait for summer camp and wish it would go all summer! These boys love camping and all that goes with it - playing with fire, playing with knives, and actively learning basic first-aid. All without mom yelling at them to be careful!

If they stay the first year, they will usually hang in there through high school and make Eagle. About half the Scouts in our Troop are very active in sports and are able to balance the two activities. Sure they miss some of the outings and meetings, but if they are in the Troop for 6 or 7 years, they will go on plenty of camping trips and hikes and can still actively play sports.

For those of us who really do like cold weather camping, this is an interesting article in the New York Times...

Chilled by Choice

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/garden/21cold.html?8dpc

Actually, I like camping all year around! Every season has it's good and bad - we just need to be prepared in different ways. Dealing with summertime heat and bugs can be as challenging as trying to stay dry and warm in the winter.

Right now we are teaching the Scouts about cold weather camping, with comfort and survival linked to bringing the right gear, wearing the right clothes, eating the right food, leaving cotton at home, and most important, staying dry!

Ask me now, and I'll tell you I love winter camping because it's exhilarating, builds confidence in boys, and has a beauty all its own. Ask me in the summer and I'll tell you about hikes with amazing views, swimming in mountain lakes, and the joy of summer camp.

Goodwill, Salvation Army, Value Village, and other thrift stores can be excellent resources for all kinds of camping equipment and gear. Many of the families in our Troop have been getting some great deals on winter camping gear at thrift stores lately. Please do not think you have to go out and buy all new stuff! Also, Campmor, Cabelas, and REI all have online sales and outlet merchandise that are far cheaper than the regularly priced items.