SMEagle819

Yes, I remember the youth BoRs from years past. I was even given a couple when I first crossed over into Boy Scouts. I do believe that these are an asset like others have stated in previous posts. We still use the youth BoR for the Scout Badge and on occasion Tenderfoot. This helps the older scouts feel useful, and the younger scouts to learn from the older ones. Also, it goes back to the Boy led principle we hear so much about. IIRC, these were called "Personal Growth Agreement conferences" at one time.

This is what we do, which was suggested by our PLC a few years ago that has been enforced ever since: If you committed to the trip at the meeting when menus and drivers were set, then you had to pay for food and any fees associated with the trip. The only way out is if you called the person buying food for the trip and let them know before they went to the store; the day the food buyer was going was communicated at the meeting. This "policy" has cut down on the late bailouts in our troop. We have had some that have bailed at the last minute, and they did follow through and pay for the food that was purchased. I have even had to cancel going myself, and had to pay my portion of the food bill to the "adult patrol."

I think these are great ideas! Yes, the lock-in may not appeal to some, but to use as a recruiting tool, I think would work. It would get potential new members in the door, and then we can go from there. Definitely the shooting day would be great as well. If it could be set up at the district/council camp (if it has a range), it could be piggybacked with some other activities at the camp, maybe even an overnight camping trip to introduce the prospective members to the outdoors portion of scouting. I whole-heartily agree that if the district sponsored it, I definitely would view it as a district helping with recruitment, and would give it my full support. Whereas right now in my district, district help with recruiting for Boy Scouts is non-existant.

I have been reading this thread hoping to get a feel for the WB program. I have been on the fence for some time about whether to take it or not. There are many points that have been discussed that I agree with, and some that I disagree with. One of the points that I agree with was made on another recent thread about WB. A couple of posters said they would not take it because of some experience they had with another person who had completed the course. I have some of the same feelings. Some of the people I am familiar with in our district seem to think they are so much better than the people that have not taken it ("stuck up" as we called people like this when I was growing up). I'm not in scouting for myself; I'm here to help the boys learn something. This takes me to my second point: how does WB make it better for an adult leader to teach the boys about what the scouting program has to offer? I have not really seen a direct answer to this on this thread (or any others) about how WB will help. Yes, I have seen mentions of better organization, more outdoors training, and working the dreaded ticket. I may have the incorrect view, but this seems like the adult version of Eagle. My main point of disagreement is how this thread has turned into "my course was better than your course." If we want to look at WB this way, we could say the same about scouts who earned Eagle 25, 35, or even 50 years ago. The requirements change as society changes. This training has changed from what it was in the past (so I've gathered). So what? WBY2K still offers the framework of a course that helps those that want to take it. I still haven't made up my mind to take it. I may go for it in a couple of years. I suppose what I really need to do is sit down and talk with someone who has taken it to get a better overview of the course.

Message I received from my council this morning: The National Youth Protection Committee recommended additions to Boy Scout rank requirements that were approved and will become effective January 1, 2008. These changes will help us advance the importance of Youth Protection training beyond the initial Boy Scout joining requirements, and keep youth informed and actively engaged in understanding the key elements of personal safety and protection. Tenderfoot Rank Revised requirement 9: Explain the importance of the buddy system as it relates to your personal safety on outings and in your neighborhood. Describe what a bully is and how you should respond to one. Second Class Rank New requirement 8b: Explain the three Rs of personal safety and protection. First Class Rank New requirement 12: Describe the three things you should avoid doing related to use of the Internet. Describe a cyberbully and how you should respond to one. The changes will be represented in the 2008 Boy Scout Requirements book and the revised ninth printing of the 11th edition of the Boy Scout Handbook. I actaully like these, especially the new Second Class requirement. However, I didn't realize that "bullies" were so rampant nowadays. I have heard of the "Cyberbully" before, but have not had any of the scouts tell me they have been accosted by one. Any other thoughts out there on these?

That's the question I have in my head as well; what form was used? Our council also has stopped including the multi-color, heavy paper stock Eagle app in the Eagle workbooks. Now you are supposed to go to the council office and get a "working copy" of an electonic form that shows the merit badges earned, ranks earned, etc. This form is rather useless, however, because many of these dates are not filled in. They still need to be filled in by the applicant. (Thank goodness for good record keeping!) I have started using this form as a "rough draft" copy, and downloading the "Eagle Application" from the BSA National website. I also have to agree that having an impromtu BOR with ASMs involved is a breech of protocol. As SM, I don't even sit in on any BORs, much less an Eagle BOR. I'm there to introduce the applicant, and be supportive of the applicant. I would have the prospective Eagle contact the SM and have a discussion about this issue. I would have a separate discussion with the CC. I also agree that these discussions should be done in a courteous and respectful manner.

scoutldr wrote: We do have some Scouters in our council who reside in the neighboring state, but are nonetheless in our council. They refused to adopt the new CSP, and instead continue to wear the red and white strips for their city and state on the ODLR uniforms. Now, that''s inappropriate...but nonetheless none of my business. I still wear the city & state red white strips on my uniform. I have not once been told it's inappropriate. Also, our council has recently changed names. The council leadership has made it known that you do not have to change your CSP to the new one, or change your troop's flag because of the name change. Many younger scouts in my troop and others are always facinated by the red white strips. There are more young scouts out there that like the historical things about scouting than many people think...

Get a copy of the Eagle Project Workbook to assist if not already done so. It does provide space to show what the scout plans to do for the project, and the accompanying signatures for approval. Calico is right that the project is based on leadership, and I like what he included. An outline of the project with the workbook would be a great start for the project. The signatures in the workbook would show that the troop approves (SM and CC) and the organiztion he hopes to work with also approves. Don't forget to let the scout include any "mistakes" or rough spots he encounters during the project. This will show the BOR later that sometimes planning out a project can incur a problem...

Definitely communicate with the parents. Even though the Webelo may chose one troop, the parent usually has the final say in my experience. The "parents only" trip is an excellent idea. May have to try it. One other idea is a parents only meeting where troop history, adult leadership is explained, how a troop functions, etc is discussed. Leeting the parent know that they are welcome to join the committee or as an adult leader is useful to bring new ideas into the troop. Another item to mention in this meeting would be that if you join the troop, but then decide the troop is not for them, please ask about transfer. Maybe that way we can keep more boys in scouting if the parents know that transfer is an option.

Thanks for the clarification, LisaBob. I don't remember where I heard the visit 3 troops requirement from. Maybe that's a suggestion someone gave out (not gonna say guideline or requirement) to let the Webelo and family get a better feel for the troop they would like to join...

I do agree that providing DCs is a service, and a great POR for a young scout to gain leadership qualities. However, there should be some "quid pro quo" when a troop gives up a scout or 2 to work in this position, especially when the pack and troop meet on the same night. I alwyas looked upon it as "aslong as the Webelo stays in scouting..." But, when that young DC looks at me after crossover, after giving it his all for 8-10 months, and not one of them crossed to our troop, and he says "What did I do wrong?", that is where I have the feeling of being "being used." Like I said before, now my other young scouts that could benefit from this are reluctant to do it for this reason. Here's another part of the story: our district really does not assist with Webelos to Scout transition. I have brought this up many times to our DE (which changes about every 12-18 months, but that is another issue), and they put it back that it is the troop's responsibility to go to Webelos packs and promote. I can see his point, but when you are expressly asking for help, you would think some would be forthcoming. Also, isn't a requirement of the AOL to visit 3 troops before crossover? If so, I know this isn't being adhered to in our district.

Another idea is to have your "tweeners" bring their pack in packed with what they think they will need for a cold weather trip. This way, you can incorporate them into the teaching aspect by having them unpack their packs as the instructor goes thru the list of recommended items. It will also be a learning experience for them as they will see some items they may have missed when packing.

Lisabob, You have hit the target dead center! Many of the items you list as wanting from the troop when you were a WDL I can claim to be guilty of. Yes, communication could be better. Yes, an alternate contact at the troop other than the SM would be good. However, we did offer many times for the Webelos to go on a "regular" scout trip to see what it was about. Sometimes we would get takers. Other times, would never hear anything back. You wrote: 3) Please don't play coy about what troops your boys might join. If your boys aren't planning to join ours and you want to come to our webelos/troop activities anyway, that's ok to do and we (at least, my son's troop) will still be quite happy to have you at our events. Just please be up front about it. There is a lot that goes into preparing a troop (and program) for new cross-over scouts, and it is much more difficult when, at last minute, the troop discovers that they were being strung along by people who never intended to join. This has happened to us more than I'd like to think about. We did everything for one Webelos group (and I do mean everything), and all went to another troop that didn't provide any Den Chiefs or offer to take these Webelos on any of their outings. My scouts are very reluctant to be Den Chiefs now for this very reason. 4) Help families to understand that each boy/family should make his own decision about what troop to join. My son's troop, good as it is, is not the best one for some boys. The same is true of all troops. I'd rather a boy finds a troop that fits him rather than join a troop because the whole den is joining, just to drop out a few months later due to lack of fit. I think most SMs feel that way too, in my experience. This almost goes hand in hand with the point made above. The boys had chosen to join our troop, but the parents elected to go to the other because "everyone else is going there." Many of these boys that crossed are no longer in the program. It also sounds like your district has some good ideas on training as well. I know our district could benefit from something like you are talking about. I might have to talk to some people about setting one up for our district as well. We (all troops) can use all of the help we can get.

He needed to fulfill that requirement as well...

I have a story... This was done via email. The mother of one of my scouts, who we had not seen for about 18 months, wanted to come back and earn his Eagle (current Life Scout). I responded that we had not seen the scout for 18 months, could not get in contact with them to find out what was going on, and actually had removed him from the roster at recharter. I also said that he would need to be active for 6 months in a leadership position and attend regularly. Would this be considered "against scout policy?" Since Requirement 1 for the rank of Eagle reads "Be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout," I take that to mean I was not asking anything beyond what the requirements call for. Of course, we never heard from this scout again.

How in the world can you prove you were a Second Class Scout for like one year in 1969 BTW? It wasn't necessary for me to have included youth - my husband rated the 15 without the youth time and I had no way to prove it, so left it out. For those of you that have them, how important is your pin to you? Is it "just a matter of filling out the form and buying the pin. What''s the point?" Or do you actually CARE that you have, rate, and wear the pin? (if you wear it) My current 25 year pin is very important to me. It is for use on "civilian" clothes, but I do have the service stars on my scout uniform for the number of years I have been involved. The scouts in my troop notice the stars, and many realize that scouting is not just a "club" to put on college applications; some actually realize it can be a lifetime activity. When I filled out my first veterans application, I found my original application when I joined Cub Scouts at age 8. I haven't left scouting since. Makes "keeping track of time" pretty easy...

Yes, you can use youth registered time for your veteran award. I am also close to my 30 year pin as well...

I joined the forum back in 2003, mostly just reading for help with the troop. Now that I have a little more time, I hope to be able to share some experiences and advice to you. Currently the SM of the troop I grew up in, with 30 years experience (youth and adult combined total). Like an old commercial used to say, "I liked it some much, I became Scoutmaster" (words changed a bit for the forum).

Eagle Class of 1988, Robert E Lee Council in VA (now named the Heart of Virginia Council) Currently the SM of the troop I grew up in, with 30 years experience (youth and adult combined total)

Congrats Its Me! As many of the other posters have stated, start the traditions now. Some other ones you may want to consider: - Father - Son campout in the spring - Start a scrapbook - pictures, newspaper articles about the troop, etc. - Have a customized neckerchief designed and wear it proudly. A new scout earns it when he earns Tenderfoot. - Get a group picture of the "original" members of the troop, and hang it on the wall. Just like those of the heroes, this will be a reflection of a new chapter in these boys' lives.

I have to agree with Chippewa29 about term limits. A long term SM can still be effective if new adults are entering the program. Many times, the new adults are looking for someone who "has been around the block a couple of times" so they are not overwhelmed with the program. Also, some of the "old timers" may find as the new blood comes in, it is a good time for them to transition out. I have been in the situation of replacing a SM who was SM for 25 years. All of the boys really respected him, and gave him their full attention when he spoke. When I took over, he stayed on as an ASM, and has been a valuable mentor to me, and other adults that have joined our troop (yes, he is still working with the troop!). There are many old timers out there who still have much to offer. I believe it would be bad to limit them as to how much they can serve or particiapte.

Beavah, your little note on courteous hits the nail on the head. As a matter of fact, I think I will use it for my Scoutmaster's Minute at our next meeting. Yes, I understand that there is other things a young person is doing outside of scouts. Yes, I understand that to ask for 100% participation is ludicrous. However, we as volunteers are giving up some of our free time to create an enjoyable experience for young people to have. Not having enough courtesy to say "I won't be able to attend because of XXXX" is not asking a lot. Also, what happens when you make a troop schedule with outings planned out in advance, and then people don't come because "I wanted to go to a party" or "There's this concert on that day and I'm going to that instead." Should we not make schedules any more since no one seems to be looking at them? By making a schedule in advance, you should be able to plan your "other" events around the schedule, or make it known early enough that you can't attend.

One of the things as an adult leader that yeh just have to shrug off sometimes is parent behavior. It's not somethin' that you can control most of the time. So don't beat yourself up too much. Beavah said this earlier in the thread, and I couldn't agree more. There are some parents out there that think little "Johnny" can do no wrong, it's the other kid's fault, my kid always gets picked on, etc. Sometimes, asking that parent to go on an outing can change their attitude, and the scout's as well. I also agree with what has been said about "Parent2" and scout probably not wanting to be in scouts in the first place. They may have been looking for an out, and this is it. I definitely would reach out to Parent1 and see if they would like to come back. You never know until you ask...

Our local camp has built showers similar to what bigedbsa mentioned... We now have 4 shower houses with 10 lockable "bathrooms" each. These rooms have a shower, sink, bench, and toilet. I learned from my guys this past camp season that many of them took at least one shower per day, and some took 2! With the flushable toilets now in a locked room, I heard of no one holding it for multiple days. I do remember being a scout and taking showers in the shower rooms (locker room type). Many of the scouts then would go in and get out as quickly and clean-ly (is that a word) as they could. I do remember we would joke on the younger scout that would wear his bathing suit in for a shower, but at least he was taking one...

Tagguy, I have taken my troop to Brady Saunders for a number of years. The camp has a good program, and they are adding some more items for 2008. If you have some older boys going, I would have them sign up for Rangers Challenge. This is geared towards the older boy, and my older scouts return year in and year out for this program. Also, another program for some older scouts is the James River Adventure. This is a 50 mile canoe trip down the James River, with some activities planned on the trip. This trip lasts the entire week, so those scouts that attend will not be back at camp until Friday evening. There is a program for the younger scouts as well, called the Pathfinder Program. This will help the younger scout learn the skills necessary for Tenderfoot, Second, and First Class ranks. If you would like more, contact me via private message.