skeptic

Over the years as SM I have done 25 "official" mile swims at various camps throughout California. My last one was two years ago at Tahquitz when I was 65. During the preliminary quarter, I had my upper denture come loose and fall into my mouth, prompting me to swim to the edge and call the twenty something female director to please come and get them. She was a bit shocked I think. When I did the longer swim, I simply removed them ahead of time. Have done it in the ocean at Emerald Bay and Cherry Valley (had to swim part in open water at that time; was told they stay in the cove now); 6 times in Shaver Lake, always starting at 6AM when the water is warmer than the air; and in various pools or lake special swimming areas. Best time was somewhere around 37 minutes at Shaver when I was in my 30's; last time was an hour and 22 minutes. I do not stop or put feet down; it is a matter of principle. Have been to a couple camps that were qualifying swimmers for doing it incrementally; and I did point out to them they were bending the intent of the award. Yes, many swimmers in pools hang on, put feet down, and so on; but most of the time someone keeps them more or less moving. Had one older scout who did it completely with the elementary backstroke, as he could not do anything else. If he could have mastered swimming, he likely would have Eagled; but he was only first class, due to the swimming problems. Ironically, he became an Army officer and ranger, and now has just been listed for advancement to Lt. Colonel. Served in Bosnia, and just returning from a 3rd in Iraq, with 2 in Afghanistan. Had one 75 pound 11 year old do it at Shaver with no problem, having just finished lifeguard in the Pacific the week before camp. The next year, hardly any heavier, he got hypothermia half way through, scaring the heck out of me and the staffer helping. It was only first stage, as we responded to his complaining of being cold; but it was a lesson. Had one parent at Emerald Bay decide to do it with his son; his shorts kept sliding down, so he decided to take them off, much to his son's chagrin. He could not understand why that was perhaps a problem in this day and age; though he did put them on before actually getting out. It is true though that swimming the mile has been a major point of pride a number of times for a few boys who struggled with other things. Not sure if I will do any more, as my body is beginning to object to a lot of things. Still, may, you just never know.

"Scouting is outing"; without camps, fewer opportunities, especially in some areas. A well run camp pays dividends far beyond the apparent, often from attendees from many years before. In our part of the country, while we have many state and federal camps, they too often are in very poor condition, have become very expensive if they are popular, and you are crowded with people, dogs, noise, and too many times, booze and foul language. Not the place to camp, especially in prime seasons. While national places like Philmont, Sea Base, and Boundary Waters, and the soon to be Summit are great facilities that offer something unique in many respects, they are expensive and have long waiting lists. Local camps within a three hour or less drive are important. I feel national needs to play a part in the survival of small camps that cannot stand on their own due to low populations or income issues. They may be the only place for decent activities for cubs and younger scouts in the camping arena. But subsidizing should be tied to a well rounded program and actually learning if a traditional summer camp. ALL camps should be available for simply camping during non-peak seasons. Just some long simmering thoughts.

While the onus suffered by pubescent teens struggling with their sexuality is tragic, the BSA policy has to do with adults as leaders. The youth sexuality is rarely an issue, unless the boy himself somehow makes it so. Only then does it become a problem, as the majority of youth of that age are particularly concerned about being seen "differently". And the stigma comes from all directions of the youth culture with which the boy interacts, not just scouting. It is highly unlikely that many troops would seek out youth who may be questioning; it only when the obvious, or perceived position comes to the fore that it becomes problematic. At that time, you very well may have to deal with severe peer pressure both in the unit, and from without. Basically, it is "Catch 22" at that juncture. Don't forget that acceptance by peers can often cause those very peers to be perceived in a different light by the larger majority. It is pretty much no win then. These comments are from actual observations, and one major decision in the troop years back. Hopefully, we eventually will see the issues become less of a problem, and less of an onus for the small percentage suffering from these conflicting emotions. But, currently, the atmosphere in that age group is not conducive to easy solutions.

Wow!! Wish I were younger. Love this positive Scouting stuff.

As constantly suggested, local CO decision; it becomes a non-issue. But, it still is pretty petty from my perspective, as the only people being effected are the kids in the troop that need to find another CO and place to meet. Their meeting there hurts no one.

Once again, it would be time for the SM to do his job. I once gave a boy an ultimatum almost exactly like this. He chose to leave. The good thing was that he showed up clean and sober a few years later with a fiancee. I did not recognize him, but he did me. He told me who he was, then thanked me for doing what I did. So, you sometimes think you lose, then find out you didn't.

E; to the right of these listings there is a click on about the "original scouter magazines" Terry published briefly. It indicates what transpired, and supposedly allows orders of them. But the order function does not work, so imagine they have long been out of stock. They are really pretty good references; too bad they could not get a foothold. Anyway, take a look at the link.

Just a note that I have listed 5 of the original 7 Journals on line on eBay. Just in case anyone is interested. Includes the GBB cover and Philmont cover.

The hardest part is not feeling "you" failed when you lose one. It took me a long time to realize that "we cannot save them all". On the other hand, when you see the break through, or years later, as an adult, one of them you thought you lost shows up in good shape and says "thank you", it makes it all worth it. Based all on scout age and above. Have to agree that overall, most issues are more parent related, either directly, or the parent simply refusing to admit their child may have problems.

If a monitor feels the urge, maybe you could move this thread to "History". Just a thought.

"This was discussed by the task force, which decided that Journey to Excellence would be better understood by the majority of volunteersespecially new volunteersif the program followed the bronze, silver, gold sequence." Maybe they should have retained the tradition, and let the "newbies" learn the history of BSA and its awards. Kind of like going to red for scouts, and green for senior boys for so many years, even though tradition had it the other way with year pins and tabs for socks. Just an "old guy" blathering on of course.

I like the "BSA should never be more liberal than the city of San Francisco" test. Love it; thanks.

Moose; I believe you are confusing the project with turning in the application as an 18 year old. There is a 90 day limit after the paperwork is accepted in which they should have their board, then another 90 days with a letter explaining to the local council the reason for delay, such as away at college. After that, he has to file a special appeal through National to have the board. At least that is the way I understand the issue. But it has nothing to do with the project. A project can be done before he even finishes the merit badges; it simply has to happen after he becomes Life.

Today, even the standard grocery stores have many options that are far less expensive than regular backpack brands. Knorr has expanded, and is often on sale. Instant stuff is widely available, and if bought in larger packages, can be used for a number of meals in a mix and match way. Easy additions include seasonings, various dried and chopped vegies in bags, and bullion for additional base (though needs to completely dissolve). Add in things such as tuna in a bag, small cans of potted meats (now some are coming in packages too if you can find them. Another great method for simple overnight trips is preparing things in the microwave and freezing. Double wrap, then put in ziplock. Only requires heating by evening meal time on Saturday, and no refrigeration concerns because it starts frozen. You can now get liquid eggs in small cartons, and even powdered ones, then do the omelet thing in a bag if you want, and of course standard whole grain cereals and rice come in instant, and can be repackaged to give more variety and add in powdered milk, extra sweetener, dried fruits such as berries, raisins, or even peaches and such. Twenty years ago it was far less easy, and much more expensive. While we know that there are some purists that scream that we should not live in the modern world with scouting, but not taking advantage of innovation and advancements in food storage is simply illogical, just as it would be to still carry an old heavy pack frame with canvas bag or rolled blankets. If you want to get away from the crazies that overburden easily accessible parks, then walking is the only way. No sense in making it harder than it needs to be.

Is the question about a folded flag, or one on a staff? Makes a difference. Like most things related to the flag, there are traditions, general instructions, and absolutes. This appears to be a tradition to me.

*http://tinyurl.com/4xzce4t*

In 85 the SPL for the jambo troop had MS. He was over 6 foot by then and would be up on his own early, moving to special crutches late morning, and then usually in a chair by afternoon. We never had a shortage of scouts who helped with the chair, including getting him up and down stairs. Granted, a cart or electric chair would have been great, but we got through the whole jamboree with him, though it was a bit of a challenge, especially during "Bob" and his lead-in squall line. A couple of years before the jambo, Jason's troop went to Chawanakee in the Sierras. He was their SPL at the time. And those scouts never left him alone, nor seemed bothered by helping him around. Pushing a chair in the dirt is not exactly easy; but they were "proud" to be making sure he was part of the group. Setting the example is something we stress in leadership. So, hopefully most of us see the possible poor one in this scenario.

Thanks to those that responded, reminding me that "embarrassed" is the wrong word. It is also correct that seldom does anyone note the errors if they occur, at least not to my face, or those of the scouts. But, if we are asked, I always point out to the boy in charge that they need to be serious, and perhaps practice some, reminding them that people will be watching. A few times they have opted out, which is fine; and we had a small group years back that chose to learn serious drill maneuvers. They were in demand for a couple of years, until the leader aged out and it fell apart. My point for doing it for special occasions is just that; it is a special occasion. And doing it right should probably be part of accepting the request. However, part of it depends on age. We should never really expect cubs to do as well as older scouts. But they all should hopefully be encouraged to "do their best". Now, just doing it for fun, while maybe helping them learn to follow instructions and a leader, definitely should be their choice. And I have always been surprised at how they seem to occasionally enjoy an O'Grady drill, if they have chosen to learn basic stuff. As said; if they want to learn it better, then help them. Otherwise, simply teach them to be respectful and stand up straight, if possible.

A comment about not marching and drilling was made. Am not sure that there is any harm in basic drilling at times. It is very helpful in many ways. Teaching the scouts to listen to a leader, and to coordinate their movements. Learning to do a sharp set of maneuvers for flag ceremonies. Discipline perhaps. And it can be fun as well. There is something special about a well groomed group marching in good cadence and form. It engenders pride in the marchers too, or at least it did for us when we did it in the 50's. Frankly, I cringe often when I see scouts doing flag ceremonies in public. We might be better served, image wise, if we did a well executed and sharp ceremony when the mayor's office asks us to do one, or a fraternal organization, or even at our own functions where too often the flag presentation is almost embarrassing. JMHO of course.

"But is being Fat a disability????" Depends on how good your lawyer is!

Too early to tell; but has possibilities if National takes note and perhaps picks up on the best of things presented.

Learning to float was the critical thing for me. I had been stuck in the beginning YMCA class for half the summer because I was afraid to put my face in the water, and I could not float. Someone coaxed me into trying the cork float, where you curl up in a ball, hold your knees and breath, and bob in the water. For some reason, this worked; and once I knew I would not likely sink, it was onward to fast advancement to Star and Marlin, or something like that. Two years ago I did my 25th official summer camp mile, and I have mastered the float to the extent my feet even come up without kicking. Overcoming obstacles is part of growing up, especially those that scare us.

Actually, the wolf is a rational choice because of the history of the founders. Seton was called Grey Wolf and is still considered to have done some of the best work on the Canadian wolf. B.P. was the "wolf that never sleeps" among other things. Of course, Seton would have had a wolf rather than an eagle. Probably many other critters someone can validate for the role.

You can likely find numbers of books and so on from the period on eBay. Also they seem to be relatively common in many used bookstores, those that have survived. You can tell them immediately by their putrid green color. You might see if your local council may have a shelf of older books and so on, as well as the annual reports from that period.

If it was not for the copyright issue, I think, Smokey might have filled this niche. You will find him in a number of earlier scouting materials and posters. Mickey was also an approved rep during the 40's and early 50's; he was an icon for a couple of jambos. There were a few promo items with Ronald McDonald back awhile, aimed at cubs; similar to the Caspar ads for Cubbing. Dennis the Menace was actually used by BSA for a couple of promos as well. Kermit has been a SM or scout, as has Pac-Man. During the 40's and 50's, we had "The Little Scouts". Other recognized comic figures of which I have found either authorized or unauthorized scouting graphics are Woody Woodpecker, Tweety and Sylvester, Taz, Superboy,Roy Powers,Homer Simpson, Franklin Turtle, Flintstones, Goofy, Donald and the nephews, Fox and Crow, BC, Blondie, Archie, Beetle Bailey, "Ha-Ha Comics", Calvin and Hobbs, and Daisy the Cow. There are also the sort of related Bear Scouts, Buttons and the Boy Scouts, and so on. Also are a number of odd ball comic books with which few are familiar, along with numerous off the wall stuff. We have even been featured in Mad, Playboy, and Marvel specials. Many of the off the wall things I have discovered are hilarious; but others are not something I would want boys to see due to either their "adult content" or simply derogatory material aimed at the BSA or Scouting in general. Lots already there, or you might have a contest to find a totally unique and specific symbol or mascot.