skeptic

Please, no more knots for things that already have an identity. The basic beads fulfill that purpose, wearing them with whatever necker or sometimes just the beads. A similar thing is the pocket dangle of OA, which can be put on any uniform shirt to represent OA membership. Do not understand wearing WB stuff for troop functions, other than beads, if you are a member of the troop. Now, if you are not, then it certainly is appropriate.

Look for recurring faces; one of the leaders seems to be in most of them on the left; and a couple faces of boys seem very similar. From uniforms, I would say the general dates are close to accurate; then add in the recurring leader, and you are close.

Yes Beavah, I see a continuing tendency to label many things we did in fun and friendship at one time as hazing, as a very occasional occurrence might happen that found a scout getting their feelings hurt, something accidentally happening to harm them that would rarely happen if similar actions occurred. This applies to traditional things like snipe hunts, sending scouts for bacon stretchers and smoke shifters, notching of arrow in OA, actual tap outs in OA, elimination of certain skits, and so on. Similarly, many long accepted children's games are becoming banned on elementary campuses because an occasional child is not physically or emotionally able to participate on an equal basis, so they can "never win" within their own abilities. Surely much of this is simply an extension of the "failure is not acceptable syndrome" that leads to kids simply not trying, or watered down competitions that mean little or nothing. It also relates to the continued growth of foolish and punitive law suites, and the tendency for many to settle rather than spend to defend. The paranoia about possibly getting sued can be directly connected to the misinterpretation or change of meaning in hazing, or at least I think so. Of course, occasionally someone publishes something pointing out the foolishness, but it does not seem to make much difference, even though everybody rushes to agree with the premise. Personally, I find myself having to force focus on common sense and walking the line between allowing fun if it is basically harmless, and protecting scouts and kids by making reality based judgements. It gets harder the older I get. I honestly fear for the kids that never, or seldom, are exposed to the harsher realities of the world.

Would be nice if we had even one IT person. Our website is almost useless, and mostly out of date for a lot of stuff. We have no dedicated individuals working it. Needless to say, our communications are hindered a lot, even for a small one county council. Still have close to 9,000 people on the books, with leaders.

We have an Assistant SE.

A warning; maybe next one is in Washington.

It appears that the Gods have now made their opinion known. By shaking up Washington, maybe some of their brains will fall into place. One can dream I suppose.

While the listed articles shed light on this subject, and show some instances of questionable or likely poor decisions, they also indicate that the rank and file volunteers were often against the transactions, and in some cases led directly to their not happening. The Chicago situation is the most prominent case, as can be seen from this forum. What is not noted in regard to the Chicago outcome, possibly due to the date on the Hearst article, is that the council professionals involved were almost all replaced when National came into the conflict. If local scouters do not utilize their camps or preserves, and the upkeep becomes a lodestone on program and so on, then hard decisions need to be made. We need to do what we can to mitigate the worst of these; but sometimes it has to be due to circumstances over which we really have little control. On the other hand, National needs to look hard at the levels of compensation to some, especially at the top. They also should seriously consider finding ways to help smaller councils hold on to irreplaceable properties by subsidizing and encouraging more use of other scouts and outside organizations. On the other hand, conservation includes management of resources in a mode that tries to mitigate damage or overgrowth. A recent example is the NPS beginning to "remove" forests encroaching on meadowlands in Yosemite due to policies that have stopped natural fires from doing what nature designed. Thinning of overgrowth allows other species to survive due to space and light. Removing diseased or insect filled trees reduces the stress on other trees and wildfire fuel due to dead trees that are tall torches in such instances that allow the fire to spread faster. And it is true that some land can no longer be used as it was 50 or 100 years ago. We can try to assure it is still used as parkland or open space whenever possible. Sometimes that is not a viable option, so the resources should be harvested financially. It is pretty obvious to me that the first linked article is a hatchet job that was written due to our current stances on controversial PC issues. No one will ever be completely satisfied with these things. Overall, BSA still has a far better record in environmental and conservation areas than most large groups.

Reading through a September, 1928 SCOUTING, and came across a couple of interesting statements in the Chief Scout Executive's Page. This was West of course. "It is especially important, as we approach the Presidential Campaign, that all Scout Leaders be fully informed whole-heartedly cooperate in an effort to avoid involving the Boy Scouts of America in controversial questions. Section 2 of Article III of the Constitution reads: "The Boy Scouts of America shall not, through its governing body or through any of its officers, its chartered Councils or members, involve the Boy Scout Movement in any question of a political character, but each official and member shall have freedom of thought and action as an individual." Further on, he states: "The aim and purpose of the Boy Scouts of America is, through a program of wholesome outdoor activity, and the Scout Oath and Law, to develop character and train boys for the responsibilities of citizenship. It is not within the province of the Local Council, or even the National Council, to undertake to pass resolutions or legislate on any one of the many problems before the American people. We are obligated by the Constitution and By-Laws to avoid participation in controversial and political questions." While these statements apply directly to the subject of this thread, I can see how it might also be applied to one of our ongoing points of concern and disagreement in other threads on this forum.

Looked it up, and there have only been the two non person awards, though the Oakridge Boys received it as a group. Also interesting that for some reason, only one person received it in 1975 (Ford) and 1981 (Art Linkletter). Other years saw quite a few, or only 4 or 5. World scouters also have received it fairly often, including recipients of the Silver Wolf. Very few women, and most, if not all, in the past 25 years. One or two instances of a couple also.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

You probably need to find a copy of the National Meeting material; this past year was in San Diego. Suspect that the resolution stuff is not nearly as common as back in the earlier period.

From SCOUTING, May, 1928. When the Silver Buffalo Award began in 1926, there were 22 awards issued initially. These included all of the men we list as founders, with the first going to Baden Powell. Interestingly, the second is listed as being given to the "Unknown Scout" of the lost in London story. It was then decided to issue seven a year going forward, five to Scouting leaders and two to youth leaders outside of Scouting. In 1928, the seven awarded included, as number 30 overall, "The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier". This was followed with Colonel Charles A. Lindbergh. I am challenged to see if any other special awards have been made to "monuments in honor of individual(s)". Will have to see if I can find a list of all the recipients to date.

Thanks Shortridge; I did mean Pinchot, not the Chilean dictator. No doubt that going backpacking in small groups is the best method; but larger groups by vehicle can still be efficient and respect the environment with a bit of effort. My main point here was that from my readings, it is apparent that BSA was well out in front overall with their approach to the outdoors. In the teens they already were preaching forest management, even having a special forestry program on the east coast for a while. And many of the earliest adult leaders in the environmental/conservation movements were also very supportive of BSA.

In my continued perusal of older material, occasionally posted in history section, I am made aware of just how important conservation was to the program from its outset. Surely part of this had to do with Teddy Roosevelt, Seton,and Pinochet, among others. So, when we have people complaining about how bad Scouts are for the camp grounds and forests, I cannot understand how narrow minded and ill informed these people really are. That is not to say that we have a small group that does not follow rules and LNT ideals. But overall, BSA is one of the best large groups, maybe the best, in this arena. Thoughts?

A resolution of the Executive Board. Resolved, that the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America deplores the popular use of eagle feathers in the manufacture of war bonnets as tending top cause the extermination of our National emblem by plume hunters. Therefore, Scout Executives, Scoutmasters and Scouts are requested not to purchase the feathers of any wild birds, but in the manufacture of war bonnets and similar objects to use the feathers of domestic fowls, as suggested in BOYS' LIFE.

And how does this relate to National Forests?

Ditto to Pack. Please reconsider your idea.

Yep; cannot see ANY connection between this and Woodbadge. We all know where you stand. Your trying to relate it to everything does nothing but marginalize your other views. Forests are overused in our part of the country, with the most popular locations full during the peak camping months from late spring through late fall. We pretty much can camp where we want during the winter, though a warm spell is an issue because they often close the overflow areas of the larger camps. But, they also now have hosts, and the price keeps growing for those with basic facilities and hookups. More remote ones, often now are closed much of the year due to access issues and weather damage. Still, most are great places, and almost too popular.

From another portion of the Magazine; a segment of West's report. "It must be ever borne in mind that the basis of strength and power of the Boy Scout Movement will not be measured alone by the number of Scouts and Scout officials, the record of activity of the National Council, or the number Local Councils organized; these are but a means to an end. The value of the Scout Movement will be judged by the individual Boy Scout__ his conduct, appear- ance, and the way he puts into practice the Scout Oath and Law, and reveals that he is actually prepared to do things worthwhile because of the program of activities of the Boy Scouts of America." How might Mr. West rate our current organization?

"Old age wipes all material obstructions from our vision. Looking down from up there, one wonders why grown men will spend their time in pursuit of pleasure in place of happiness; why legislators sacrifice the welfare of the people for the sake of party lines; why statesmen do not see that the only thing worth working for is 'the welfare of their fellow men'; why all legislators cannot realize that the practical way to reform the world is by teaching the public the real meaning of American democracy and how to live according to the Boy Scout Oath and Law, according to common sense, according to God's law." MESSAGE FROM "UNCLE DAN" BEARD; SCOUTING MAGAZINE, January 1940

Shortridge; We pretty much have already started ignoring much of our infrastructure issues. Look at the numerous stories in the media about unsafe bridges and trestles, as well as the awful condition of most roads throughout the country. The really sad thing is that our "so called representatives" still do not understand that this need will generate jobs, both on the government level AND the in the public sector. Those jobs in turn of course will help improve the economy by increasing tax revenue and putting money into the local economies. To me, that is the first place the Federal monies approved in 2009 should have been used. But, whatever your views, it should be obvious that our elected representatives are not actually representing US. Recent polls, from a number of different slants indicate how low the congressional office holders approval has dropped. Even as bad as the president's rating is, they are almost 20% lower on average. This may be the first election, 2012, where we might see fringe parties possibly winning seats. When you are continuously given choices of "the lesser of two evils", eventually you might find yourself looking beyond those to other possibilities.

"Go camping and hiking alot." Most important, as we prepare for the ultimate collapse. At least Scouting, when played closely to the original program, will actually be again pertinent; they will "Be Prepared". So now, we have linked this whole discussion back to Scouting.

Basement; While they likely went to Philmont the second time in order for their son to attend the leadership there, there is nothing odd about going more than once to PTC. If you enjoy the Ranch, then doing various courses is simply fun for many of us. I have done five, plus two treks, though has been a long time since the last one. Keep thinking I will go back, but the right course and time frame has not presented itself. Very few places with the high camaraderie as it has.

A declaration on the front page of the magazine/paper. Perhaps this is an area to which we "SHOULD" revisit as an organization. "Volunteer Workers" WHEREAS, the Boy Scouts of America recognizes that its faithful volunteer workers, both in the national and local fields, are the strength and backbone of the Movement, and WHEREAS, we desire at this time to express our loyal appreciation and heartfelt thanks for the splendid service of our volunteer workers. WE, the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America, in the Eleventh Annual Meeting assembled, hereby resolve that such an expression of thanks and appreciation be hereby recorded as a part of the proceedings of the meeting and be published in the next issue of SCOUTING.

Kudu; What is written is not always the actual case. There are many camp grounds that have sites very close together and have limits on how many can be in them, especially those to which you can drive. But even pack ins often have limits on how many, and can be very close together. And remember, even though you may not agree with LNT, that is a factor in not overwhelming the trails and camping areas with too many bodies. Perhaps you need to come to California and actually visit camping areas. Now days, due to the lack of funds, many areas are simply closed. Then add on fire restrictions, and you can have very limited usage possibilities. Just saying.