skeptic

While this can be a problem, it should usually be a family issue, and theirs with which to deal. The more we make it an issue, the more likely it is to be used by rebellious teens or preteens as a dare, or to push the limits. In an overwhelming amount of cases, it certainly should not become a felony or reason to ruin lives forever due to stupid decisions. Sometimes it simply amazes me how often someone in our society can build all these mountains from mole hills, so to speak. If we do not over react, and treat each case as needed, on the family level if at all possible, the less of a problem it will be overall. That applies to an myriad of poor choices by adolescents and young adults. Just my opinion of course.

Another valuable resource are the old Boy's Life Reprints that began in the late 40's and continued until the late 60's in various printings. Also, just the old Boy's Life Magazines themselves. A lot of material that covers details of various skills is now easily available on line and can be copied and printed selectively. And there are now more and more dvd's being made that cover much of the material. There is NO reason that leaders need to ONLY use BSA materials for their teaching. We are blessed with an abundance of older materials, including books and so on; but I am continually impressed by the NON BSA material that I find in the old files. Instead of moaning about this, just go out and get what you need, then put it in their hands and have them do it. Reality is that no matter how well a manual is written, or how deep the material may be, it still must be LEARNED BY DOING. Meanwhile, share stuff as you can, and develop your own ways to pass the skills along, ways that work for you. Ultimately, if you are the adult leader, then you need to take the reins of training and pass the info on. EDGE, as noted, is basically doing just that. You can beat this all to death, but the material is there for the taking. Just use the resources you have, and dig for more if you feel it is needed.

Engineer; They sort of just pushed them out, either by violence, or some other process. Not a lot to go on back then, except that one supplanted the other. But, based on the differences in anthropological materials, it is pretty obvious that it was most likely a power grab, or isolation from livable territory. Of course, they do continue to discover more and more, though very slowly.

OGE; Interesting list; has significant historical value. The number of local councils in early days, prior to 1930 or so, is significant. That they appear to have merged, often a number of times, each time becoming larger challenges the viability of small councils and truly local control. It continues to be an issue from what I see, especially where the councils are "so" large that some members likely rarely see their professionals, and have to do everything by mail or computer. Thanks.

I will throw in on this game. Homo Sapiens versus Homoerectus and Neanderthals.

Le Castor; sounds familiar. Thanks.

Please, those that find the need to be insulting or bait others; stop! Try to remember the Scout Oath and Law. Thanks.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

In some respects, though it was unsuccessful, the Civil War fits the criterion. We also have had numerous mini revolutions within cities and regions; for example, Watts. Between these and the wacko's we have had our share.

Once the project is considered complete by the recipient, the EBOR rep responsible for project reviews should also review it to be sure it meets the standard expected. If it does not, then he or she should discuss it with the candidate, and NOT sign for final approval. It should not pass to the actual Eagle board to decline the project at that point, unless there is a major issue discovered or dishonesty. Follow the procedures for approval to start, and make sure that reviews are actual reviews, and not just sign the line. Those putting their signatures on these project papers need to take their approvals seriously. Half the problems that occasionally occur are because the ADULTS do not understand their roles, or they are too afraid to step on someone's toes. If you take the responsibility, then do it right.

A lot of kids now actually will wear the zip off pants to school, and have little concern about them, as they are very similar to other popular styles. I so far have had pretty good luck with mine, though being old and ill shaped, they may not look as sharp as I would like. Of course,they still do sell the non cargo style; and if I knew I would not lose the weight I have now (which I do hope to reduce)I might buy a pair for formal occasions like council dinners and courts of honor held in formal manner. I still have a pair of the older pants that could be creased if I wished, but they are too snug, so I do not wear them anymore. The zip offs are okay, and far more comfortable. Consider though that military has two versions; one for work, the fatigues, and one for dress. I had fatigues in the Air Force which were worn most of the time, but then was required to travel in dress uniform. On the rare occasion there was a formal ceremony, we also wore them, which included the tight fitting jacket with the metal buttons, along with wool or lighter weight blue pants. We also had a summer dress uniform which was kind of tan, but we could not wear that for extremely formal affairs, though we could travel in it between about April to October. I ask scouts to travel in the official shirt, but do not make them wear the pants. They are encouraged to have them, but we are not official except waist up. In vehicles they can be in t's, but if we stop to eat or something, they still need to put on their shirts; but necker's are not needed. Most summer camps ask you to dress completely for dinner flags, and some also for breakfast; and some troops ignore the requests, while others wear full uniform to everything. I saw one troop with a makeshift closet; every scout had two complete uniform shirts, and they hung them up while in camp, but had to wear them if not doing activities and they left. Still, I too have seen some lesser priced pants that could easily pass for scout pants, due to the color. The shirt is a different issue. But, technically, any uniform shirt is allowed, as long as it is worn correctly. My older 70's style shirt I wear for RT staff does not look quite as good with the cargo's as it did with the older style pants. But it works. Ultimately, we simply do the best we can. We have a uniform closet, but currently have hardly any choice in sizes. Either they are too small or too large at the moment. Some of the boys like the old khaki shorts for some reason, and I had one boy that wore the old 50' shirt and the red bordered flap pants (til he outgrew them). We have a number of those in the closet. If I could get enough to fit them all, I would love to have the collarless shirt for camp.

Does it even matter if the board was done and he was awarded the rank? We probably all know Eagles that are borderline at best, and some we probably would not personally have passed with the knowledge of them we have. But it is apparently a done deal. Better to just take a deep breath and try to make others scouts who have doubts understand that each person needs to do what is right within themselves; and begrudging someone something is not a good way to be, even if you have good reason. Just my opinion of course.

See below for recently posted link. http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/2011rtn.pdf

_____________________ FOR COUNCIL SERVICE CENTER USE ONLY Report received Certificates issued Mailed or issued to Date mailed Record Posted 1. Advancement procedures: Troops/Teams: All Boy Scouts or Varsity Scouts ready for advancement must appear before a board of review composed of at least three members. The advancement report for each board of review must be signed by at least three members of the board, including its chairman. This is directly from the advancement report on-line. "The advancement report for each board of review must be signed by at least three members of the board, including the chairman". This is the part that I am talking about. We cannot print a report until we have a review with a valid date. I suppose we could simply put in the likely date, then change it manually, but the report cannot be submitted to council without the right date and a hard copy with signatures where they release the entered data from the report.

While this is likely discussed here and there in some earlier posts, it is now becoming a bit more of a concern for me. I am hearing more and more talk about National soon requiring ALL reports to be done electronically, and the discontinuation of the paper forms all together. While I really find overall the advancement on-line a good process, it so far does not deal with the need for signatures on rank advancements. Currently, in order to not have any unnecessary delay in the filing, we use PAPER for rank advancements so the board members can "IMMEDIATELY" sign after the review is completed. If you do not know who the reviewers actually will be for sure, and you do not for certain a scout will pass, how can you print the report before hand? That being the case, you would have to have someone print it AFTER the review, then arrange to get the signatures. You could possibly add weeks to the filing process. Are there answers I am missing, or is this simply something about which no one has yet had much concern?

Obviously, being an Eagle is not necessarily a guarantee of stability, intelligence, and common sense. Just look at Perry.

123567894

Basement: "So I am guessing your a professional?????? " Considered it briefly in 1971; but found out what they really did, and how they had no personal life due to their ridiculous schedules. In my 35th year as SM of a troop; was an ASM in Germany in the mid 60's, RT commissioner staff, unit commissioner, member at large, jamboree 1st ASM in 1985 and staff in 2010, as well as going as junior leader in 1960. Woodbadge beaded in old course, but staffed first "new" course as TG, done numerous training courses on staff and been to training at PTC 5 times, as well as 2 treks there with my unit. Until recently we backpacked regularly, but am now trying to find younger adults to assure they continue, as I cannot do longer hikes anymore. Our DE lets us run our RT for the most part, and simply gives us materials and info, while answering questions if needed. He is also in charge of one of our camps, while working as acting exec for two other districts. Yet, he never has refused to help me with issues, though sometimes it can be longer than "I" would like. ASE is similar, and overworked as well; yet he finds the time to deal with issues if needed. Our council has been understaffed for years now and barely is in the black, and was in the hole a couple of times. Have seen huge exec turnover, as they do not make enough to start to live where we are, and it can push their personal lives over the edge, and have seen it if they are dedicated. Many quit, just because of that. Would agree we likely pay too much to any head council executive, including ours; and that annoys me. But, overall, have only had two exec's that I felt were terrible. As I said, you seem to have experienced the worst of the worst. My point is that you are using your personal experience to paint the entire profession; and, to me, that seems wrong and unfair to the many who spend most of their lives at relatively low pay, and terrible working hours, yet still get to camp, and lean over backwards to find solutions if they can. Still, as must be obvious, I still stay on the unit level for the most part. And, I do get frustrated with certain elements of the National bureaucracy. But, having met a number of National level "volunteers", I think they try to keep it focused on the kids. PC pressure, and other things get in the way often; and, in my opinion, they do make some very wrong choices. Hopefully they will figure it out. Meantime, I will go back to my troop and work on getting us to our centennial in 10 years. Keep up your own work focused in the right place. Just try to expand your view beyond the difficulties close to home, and do what you can to work with what you have. With luck, your executive board will figure things out and do what they need to do. If it is as bad as portrayed, someone with some time and pull in the volunteer level needs to spearhead a COR rebellion. It has happened many times over the years; and when it does, the council usually gets better. Good luck.

Once more we get to definitions of bullying and emotional abuse. What appears to be considered bullying today was not even close when I was a scout. What is considered emotional abuse is often nothing more than telling the truth about something and confronting an individual. To often today we seem to think that we are not supposed to correct or fail a scout because it might "hurt their feelings". Am not saying that is the case here, because we simply DO NOT really know. Basement: I understand your distaste in general for everything beyond your own unit pretty much; but you really need to tone it down. Not all professionals are the way yours appear to be based on your reports. Many more ARE concerned about the youth in the program and work very hard to coordinate those needs with their jobs. Just my own opinion of course, but after 40+ years I have seen far more professionals on the good side of the coin than on the bad side; though the few I have seen on the bad side were really bad. Thanks for your work with your unit though.

While there surely should be camperships made available, the pool is a critical element in most camps. It may have been necessary to do the update due to health and safety issues if it is old. Much of the pool system is not visible to most, but they can become very inefficient and costly as they get old, especially if they break underground. Also, sometimes there are donors that specify money for a particular item. Any number of reasons. However, I am not in your council, so do not see what you apparently see. I do know that a spread sheet for camp costs, including salaries for staff, food, utilities, store supplies, and so on are available in our council with a bit of digging. The money spent has not met the income for over a decade. But we still have camperships, money specifically donated for that purpose. Always room for improvements, even in the best run councils and camps.

Yes! Should an effort be made to support smaller camps might be the better question for me. Many smaller camps have great facilities, or once were really viable. But, for many reasons, mostly population shifts and financial support mechanisms, struggle to survive against the mega camps in the general area. Personally, I feel National really needs to find a way to assure these smaller camps can survive, as they serve an important role, even if it is to a smaller group of users. Our own camp has been rediscovered by a lot of L.A. area troops; we are closer, and have a decent program. Yet we were down to 2 weeks last year, and are at 3 this year with fingers crossed. The Webeloe program also has 3 shortened weeks. But, we also have a lot of facility deferred items that could eventually lead to inability to function within current laws. We are fortunate that we have been able so far to NOT lose the oldest buildings, and a donation allowed one of the 2 to be refurbished and updated, while keeping the historic shell. Lot of positive possibilities, but still a struggle.

As annoying as things sometimes get in our council and district, I guess, overall, we are better off than I realized, though we have had our "real" nightmares. Some of the stories on here are amazing to me, and I cannot help but wonder why it is allowed to continue over time. Currently, I pretty much just feel badly for the lower execs, as they are understaffed in the council by one or two, and have been for a number of years. Ours tries very hard to work with his volunteers, and even the ASE eventually works with us when he "finally" gets to it. Of course he not only does the job for which he was hired, he has to help fill in for the missing positions in the council. Work at the unit level, and try to make sure you are delivering a good program. Support the other areas in a manner in which you are comfortable; if that is no where, then that is your choice. We must be sort of in between. And long ago decided to refuse to discuss any of the PC stuff with anyone outside the program, especially if I was in uniform at a troop function. We do not need the kids being exposed to these things anymore than necessary; and it has very little to do with them directly.

Just take it in to your local shop; they guarantee them.

Same article made it to our local paper. But, they still have not found room to post my troop's 90th anniversary info. Told them the reporter assigned to interview should know I refuse to talk about political issues in the interview. Have not heard a word since?

"Topping the lists of Rhodes Scholarships are the numbers of scouts thereon. This year, revived after a ten year lapse, the list of 32 scholars includes 23 who have been Boy Scouts, or 67% of the total. In fifteen years (1926-39 and 1949), Scouts have captured an average of 66% of the scholarships. Best year was 1927, when 24 of 32 were Scouts, 75% of the total." Wonder how more current candidates might turn out. Would be interesting to know in comparison. Of course, way back then, there were no NESA scholarships or related types, and only a very few of any kind specifically for Scouts. The Harmon scholarships only lasted 3 or 4 years. Do know that most of the scouts becoming Eagle in our district are honor students, and we have had a number that were top of their class, or the top 1%.

Just for information, in case there is someone on these boards from our troop's past, Troop 102 of Ventura, Ca. is having its 90th anniversary gathering on February 12th. See Troop 102, Ventura on Facebook for details.