skeptic

We have an 11 year old, home schooled, in our district that is already into his third troop in a year. He came into scouts at the absolute minimum age, possibly even fudged it a bit, since his father was the webloe leader and cubmaster. While in cubs he "earned" every award available at every level, even though few other cubs in his unit earned many of them. Okay, maybe he just worked harder. He was wearing a First Class patch within two months of entering a troop, but he had not had a board even for 2nd yet. His father just bought the patch and said he completed everything, so he should get to wear it. When questioned about the unit activity participation, he said that they did their own in his backyard with a couple of his patrol members from the cubs, and they did some service with another cub; now there was no tour permits filed, and the service (?) was not a troop activity. When they refused to approve the ranks, his father moved them to another troop. Now, the boy, who just turned officially eleven about 6 weeks ago is wearing a Life patch, even though the troop they moved to has not had a board or approved it; similar situations. The father, you guessed it, a lawyer, intimated legal questions in their not "immediately" approving this advancement, even when it was pointed out that a couple of things were not approved by anyone authorized to do so, and that even if they did, the unit has 30 days to arrange the board. So, now they are in the process of, or have, moved to troop number 3. Will be interesting to see how this one works, as this troop has a tradition of not letting people slide; but the current SM is also a lawyer and met with the dad a couple of times prior to now. Council of course refused to be involved. And the father has pointedly informed all that his "son's goal" is to become the youngest Eagle ever. For a while, the scout seemed willing to step back and work in the system, but now he has become just as demanding as his father. This is making him less than the most popular boy in the unit, and is also making scouts question how he is allowed to get away with this, when our own scouts are not. They all know each other, and the scout is beginning to "lord" it over the others who are pretty much where you might expect after a couple of years, or close to it, while he has less than a year. Yes, I am aware the time frames actually do not match up for Life quite yet, but even that is questioned by dad, as he claims the first class was finished exactly 30 days into his scout participation, and that the dates should have been adjusted to when he "completed the signed" items in the book. Whatever, the real issue is how do we make it palatable to our own scouts who we are trying to have actually "earn" ranks and so on? Talk about personal pride? Talk about how we should listen to conscience? Any thoughts? Meanwhile, waiting for the call from dad to me, though I do not see it happening, as he likely knows better.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

You mean we have some of the infamous "47%" in Scouting? Oh my! Our troop never gives help to a family that does not participate in fund raising, especially since most of the funds go to scout accounts directly. Have had a few that never went to camp in the summer because of this, and even a couple parents that questioned why they were denied help when others were not. Pointing out to them that they made no effort to participate in fund raising only brought huffs and puffs and excuses. Camperships through the council only cover a max of 50%, and the troop has to come up with the rest. So, assuming they apply to council, that means less than $200 personally they would need to raise, or a bit more with spending money. Oh, and at least one of the families had both parents smoke, and they were out drinking every weekend. We all have it. The good thing is that I have also had a few scouts from similar circumstances that have made it a point of pride to "not miss" any fund raising opportunity, and generally has made enough to cover all their camping for the year, as well as dues. Maybe the parents should look at their example.

Well, one good thing can be said (NOT); if we keep this up we will certainly soon not have to worry about being the world wide "example" as to how to run a democracy. Some of this stuff is reminding me of things we have read about in newly voting populations in other countries. I vote by mail; what do they perhaps want to do to make that more difficult, since I am non-partisan? They changed my physical voting place a few years back, but they publish the address in the voting material we receive, even though we are both permanent by mail. Is California actually doing it right?

Let's show our age again; "It's a Foooooord!"

Why can't everyone be "independent" and simply vote whomever is perceived as the best option, rather than the best party. Rose colored glasses are pretty, even if they they do obscure reality. It is time for "Mr. Smith" to magically succeed in his candidacy.

So, here we have another segment in the "let's make sure BSA stays in the negative spotlight" series. But of course there is not any planning in the publication timing, just a coincidence that the previous uproar had receded. While not being on the "media is biased to the left" platform, I am beginning to wonder about their bias in regard to BSA. Why are they not going for public record disclosure from ALL legal or police filings from this period that were never prosecuted or quietly pleaded out? How about reviewing public school records of reports to principals or district personnel? How about digging into Big Brothers, GS or YMCA? Oh, that's right, they have bent to the PC crowd. Maybe someone should re-review these same files and see how much data that might not show poor decision making by the BSA is NOT reported; or footnotes about non cooperation of families or authorities? This pulling out the absolutely worst pieces of the files, while not showing the complete file, is simply biased reporting. Nobody has ever claimed mistakes, and on occasion, simply horribly wrong decisions were made; but this witch hunt does no one much good except the lawyers and a few victims that will get part of a settlement as they dredge up stuff to open old emotional trauma and possibly family problems. Still, it seems time for BSA to bring them all out, unless there are actual legal declarations to stop them being shared, and to reinforce what changes have been instituted in the past couple of decades to mitigate these kinds of things. They may very well already be planning for how to handle this, as it is stated the doubling of the CO charter cost is primarily to cover "insurance" costs. The sooner they face the music, so to speak, the sooner this issue will become too little fodder for the haters of BSA. Unfortunately, they will simply find something else with which to denigrate the program, as that is their apparent goal. In the mean time, we in the real program need to continue to try and do it right, and makes "good" decisions and follow up to assure something was done if necessary.

There are quite a few council histories, and a few regional ones out there, some well done, and others not, but still interesting on a local level. Would have to do a lot of digging to find them all. A new one is just out for the Dallas area written by one of the current National level historians, David Scott. He has posted info on it on FB. In our council, I am the pseudo historian, but have few others really involved with it, though they like me to bring historical stuff to annual meetings and Eagle banquets. We do not have much in the council archives directly, other than patches and past presidents, though if I had the time, I might find more in old files sitting in the attic. There is a small group of old scrap books and so on up there that I need to get permission to go through, but would need help to do it right. For many, the historical elements of the program, local or National, is of little interest. I would like to see the Scouting Heritage MB add a local history requirement that had some real meat to it. Of course, I also would like to see something similar for Indian Lore, requiring a scout to learn a minimal level about a truly local tribe or tribes. In our area for example, the Chumash.

Actually, Bill Gates was a Life Scout, and his father is an Eagle.

When I first started getting recognized by peers in the program, rather than training, I tended to feel embarrassed for some reason, as I felt somehow it took away from the kids. It took me a long time to understand that peer recognition "is" important, as making contributing individuals feel appreciated is likely to encourage longer service, as well as a hard to describe form of respect from the youth, as well as newer adults. The key is to understand that recognition is not why you are there, and strive to not make that the focus of your service. It is important to do all we can to stay humble, even when given an honor we may not feel we are equal to or maybe do not deserve, as long as it is not the result of our own direct plotting or planning, so to speak. It is a fine line sometimes, but please do not put an onus on recipients of special awards. That does not reflect well on you, or others grumbling about certain selectees. I am not sure we will consider this award since we have something very similar, but maybe more prestigious in our own area, already in place. The two could be tied together as well, which would then make the award more visible to the rank and file. Currently, other than those in regular attendance at council events, especially the Eagle dinner, are really aware of who receives our local award. Time will tell.

http://www.nesa.org/outstanding_eagle.html Thoughts please; let's try and be nice, and make rational judgment rather than simply knee jerk comments based on animosity or something. Our council has given a local adult award for a long time very similar to this. It is presented at the annual Eagle Dinner and the recipient is honored as the "head of the class" for that year. Suspect other councils have similar awards. Ours of course is one per year, period, whereas this one can multiply based on number of Eagles in a council the previous calendar year.

Shortridge: "piffle"?? Just how "old" are you; that was one of my maternal grandmother's favorite expressions, and she was born in 1890.

What would meet you halfway would be restoring T-1st BOR to the PLC with adult supervision, as it was once upon a time. We would see much stronger candidates coming to the higher levels then in most cases, as peers tend to be blunt and normally pretty fair; but they also are less likely to let a scout just slide through, especially in regard to group interactions. Add to this the expectation that any skill marked off might be reviewed, including those from lower ranks, and you will be much closer to meeting the higher standard desired. And, yes, I also feel OA should go back to some type of maximum electee's each year and also set requirements for Venture members, including girls that would meet them. But, I am one of the "old fogies", so probably have lost perspective living in the past.

Partners in Service By Bill Sloan For more than seven decades, The Salvation Army and the BSA have worked together to make Scouting available to low-income youth. The Salvation Army At a Glance Former Rivals Are Now Solid Scouting Partners Mention The Salvation Arm and a familiar image comes to mind of a holiday bell-ringer standing outside a busy store collecting donations for the needy. We may also envision soup kitchens, community centers, disaster relief operations, and trucks bearing the group's red insignia that pick up donated household items for resale. However, some things we probably don't picture when thinking of The Salvation Army are hiking trips, summer camps, merit badges, courts of honor, and Eagle Scouts. But we should. A VALUED CHARTERED ORGANIZATION The truth is, The Salvation Army is a dedicated partner of the Boy Scouts of America. Hundreds of its officers and members work as BSA volunteers, and for nearly threequarters of a century the Army has been one of Scouting's valued chartered organizations. As of January 2001, a total of 208 Cub packs, Boy Scout troops, and Venturing crews were chartered to The Salvation Army. They offer the Scouting experience to more than 3,600 youth, most of them from lowincome families, from the South to Alaska and from New England to California. "I've been a Scoutmaster or assistant Scoutmaster for five troops in four different states," says Lieutenant Colonel Joe Bassett of Nyack, N.Y., an Army officer for 42 years, who currently serves as its national BSA liaison. "And although I'm proudest of the work I've done directly with the boys, I've also been a district commissioner and a district chairman, too." Bassett calls his work a number of years ago with racially diverse urban Troop 200 in New Haven, Conn., one of the "most memorable" experiences of his life. "We had the broadest mix of ethnic groups I've ever seen in one troopblacks, Hispanics, Asians, whites from many cultural backgroundsand the majority of them were from low-income homes," he says. "Getting to do all the traditional Scouting activities was a wonderful treat for those kids. Two of them became Eagle Scouts, and none of them ever forgot their Scouting experience." SPIRITUAL CREED, EARTHLY DEEDS Many Americans identify The Salvation Army primarily as a social services organization, similar to the Red Cross but with religious overtones, Bassett notes. In fact, it is a denomination of the Christian church, with a ministry motto"Heart to God and hand to man"that sums up its spiritual creed and earthly goals. Officers are ordained ministers and graduates of one of four special Salvation Army ministerial schools. In addition to the work they do with disaster victims, the homeless, the needy, the elderly, and the young, these ministers also conduct weekly worship services, officiate at funerals, and perform weddings just as other clergy do. Rank-and-file members are called "soldiers," with those age 14 and older classified as "seniors" and those 7 to 14 designated as "juniors." For Salvationists, as they refer to themselves, Scouting frequently runs in the family from generation to generation. Joe Bassett's son, Todd, also a Salvation Army officer, is a former Scout who is helping to organize a new Cub Scout pack in York, Pa. One of Todd's fellow Scouters in York is Captain James Cocker, a veteran of 20 years in Scouting, whose grandfather was also both a Salvation Army officer and a volunteer Scout leader 60 years ago. "Scouting's mission fits in nicely with The Salvation Army's mission," Cocker says. "It's a good marriage." SUPPORT FOR UNITS Today, Salvation Army-chartered Scout units operate as traditional BSA troops and packs in every respect. One feature that distinguishes them, however, is that a majority of the youth they serve are from disadvantaged homes. "Most of our kids come from low-income families because these are so often the people The Salvation Army works with," says Bill Deavor, a high school math teacher and lifelong Salvationist who has served for the past eight years as Scoutmaster of Troop 65 in Lockhaven, Pa., a college town of about 10,000 people. "If there's any other difference between Salvation Army units and other Scouting units, it's probably the level of financial and other support we get from our chartered organizations," Deavor notes. "For example, The Salvation Army district that our troop is chartered to provides us with a van for transportation, food for our overnight camp-outs, funds for summer camp, and so forth." (The district covers portions of eastern Pennsylvania, Delaware, and southern New Jersey and serves as chartered organization for three other troops in addition to Troop 65.) Troop 65 also conducts its own money-earning projects, Deavor adds. "We sell popcorn and hold lots of dinners. People around here really like to eat, and The Salvation Army community center has a nice kitchen we are able to use." Like the many other services provided by the Salvation Army, the Scout troop is an outreach program for the community at large. "We don't take an overly religious approach with the boys, and the troop is open to any kid who wants to join," Deavor says. "But we do stress the importance of spiritual values, using the same basic 'God and country' approach other Scout units use." Deavor describes his 15member troop as "busy and conventional" in most respects. "Our program is competitive with most of the troops I've seen," he says. "We camp out six or seven times a year and always spend a week at summer camp. We also do a lot of community service projects, some related to The Salvation Army and some not." Because at least 75 percent of the Scouts are from economically disadvantaged homes, the troop "doesn't always have money or resources for some things, like serious winter camping," Deavor says. "But the important thing is that we serve kids who otherwise might not have access to Scouting. We give them opportunities they'd probably miss if we weren't here." RENEWING A TRADITION Early in 2001, John Busby, national commander of The Salvation Army, and Chief Scout Executive Roy L. Williams signed a new Memorandum of Understanding to formally extend the two organizations' long tradition of cooperation. "Resolved," the memorandum says, "[that] The Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts of America will work cooperatively with each other ... so that boys, young adults, and adults may grow in Christian character, citizenship responsibility, and with the personal fitness necessary to achieve their greatest potential." These sentiments are strikingly similar to those expressed in 1929 by Chief Scout Executive James E. West in a letter to The Salvation Army's commander. "[W]e shall count it a privilege through cooperation with you to extend the benefits of Scouting to more boys than might [otherwise] be possible," he wrote. Dramatic changes have taken place in America over the past 72 years. But the cooperative spirit expressed by West seven decades agoand the ongoing commitment of Scouters and Salvationists alike to the welfare of the nation's youthremain as firm as ever. Contributing editor Bill Sloan also wrote the article in this issue about the BSA's Hispanic marketing program. THE SALVATION ARMY AT A GLANCE DESCRIPTIONInternational religious organization heavily involved in social service programs. FOUNDED1865 in London, England, by General William Booth; established in the United States in 1880. CURRENT U.S. MEMBERSHIP88,000 "senior soldiers" and 37,000 "junior soldiers." WORLWIDE OPERATIONSAids the disadvantaged in more than 90 countries. U.S. OPERATIONSMaintains more than 1,350 "corps centers" (incorporating both places of worship and community service facilities) throughout the 50 states. NUMBER OF BSA UNITS CHARTERED208, serving more than 3,600 youth. FORMER RIVALS ARE NOW SOLID SCOUTING PARTNERS Early in the 20th century, The Salvation Army operated its own Scouting programknown as the Life Saving Scouts of the Worldin competition with the newly organized Boy Scout movement. Gen. William Booth, who founded The Salvation Army in London, England, in 1865, and expanded it to the United States in 1880, was attracted to the dynamic new Scouting movement that blossomed in the century's first decades. He met with Scouting founder Sir Robert Baden-Powell to discuss the possibility of a combined Scouting-Salvationist youth program. However, problems arose, as described in a 1913 article in the War Cry, official publication of The Salvation Army: "There are many things associated with the world-wide Scout movement which are not acceptable to the mind of the Salvationist, but there are at the same time many things which are entirely admirable, and it has been felt ... that if the best in the Scouting idea can be developed on Salvation Army lines, a great deal of lasting good will be done for the boys' ripening years." A SCOUT BY ANY OTHER NAME... The Life Saving Scouts program operated independently for the next five years. But by then, Congress had chartered the BSA as the nation's only official Scouting movement, and the U.S. Supreme Court had upheld its exclusive use of the terms "Scouts" and "Scouting." This left The Salvation Army's youth organization no choice but to change its name. In May 1918, the Life-Saving Scouts became known as the LifeSaving Guards-Boys, and the change swiftly led to catastrophe. As Captain Carl Schoch, director of The Salvation Army's Boys Work Bureau at that time, later wrote: "The immediate results were disastrous; entire units with their leaders transferred their allegiance to the Boy Scouts of America. The trend prevailed throughout the countryyouth did not want to be identified in this fashion, and the majority of Scouts withdrew from the program." 'A HAPPY CULMINATION...' Salvationist Scout leaders began pressing for affiliation with the BSA. But it wasn't until the fall of 1929 that Chief Scout Executive James E. West and U.S. Salvation Army Commander Evangeline Booth announced the creation of a special charter, which, in effect, incorporated the Life-Saving Guards into the BSA. West wrote to Scout executives and council presidents announcing the agreement: "The granting of this charter brings to a happy culmination negotiations between The Salvation Army and the Boy Scouts of America of many years standing." From that point on, the two organizations have been inseparable allies. B.S.

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/08/30/national-atheist-party-cancels-convention-due-to-lack-of-funding/ This is interesting.

Well, I guess you really need to get zeroes in place when looking at these things. Am pretty sure this story http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112680093/human-skull-migration-082212/ was the one I read, but maybe in the L.A. Times. As I often have done, I then have poked around at related things and came to a connected discovery of what they were calling "modern humans" that discussed them beginning from a range of 40,0000 to 80,000 years ago. But you have to get that extra zero on there to make sense. Too little understanding of something can really confuse you. Still do wonder though how much relation there is to modern man's evolution to cultural thought and the writings of religious materials. Whatever, just proves that the "experts" still are really far apart on their interpretations of our heritage, whether "modern humans" or the relations and how much overlap and intermixing there was. So I am chagrined that I got this as mixed up as I did. May I claim old age?(This message has been edited by skeptic)

I will try and track it down. Always a possibility I misunderstood, or just remember mistakenly. The main point was when did the human species start keeping records of their lives and happening within them? The article I believe was in the L.A. Times, so I will see if I can find it.

In regard to the age of the earth and so on, I found myself thinking recently that some of the misconceptions for the short period of existence would likely relate to when our own species actually showed up with ability to learn and expand knowledge. Recently some archaeologists found some bones and a skull that they think may be one of the first actual homo sapiens; they estimated it to be between five and six thousand years old. Not very far back. Just a thought for some reason. I am not pushing it as reality, just pondering.

Well, I contacted National by replying to their survey email directly. I got a response this morning apologizing and telling me I had been put into the youth, (is that a compliment?), and she has removed me. She also asked me if I wanted to be in the Leader survey list. In response to that, I indicated yes, as I hope there will be more interactions between the real membership and National through these kinds of programs. Went further to not a few of the concerns recently posted here and through the Scouts-L list about the new medical form. Already got a response back, including her forwarding my concerns on the medical form to the Health and Safety group. So, at least they are trying.

It is asking me to take a survey for scouts, not adults. When I went to the actual survey, after ascertaining it was not likely Malware, it asked a few questions about levels of participation, cubs and scouts, my age range; then it told me the survey was for scouts only. When they approached me for these things, I had to identify my scouting level. They should have known I was an adult, and would not qualify. So why did I get it?

Received an email as noted below. Please understand that I did sign up for surveys and so on, but I gave them my membership info as well. So what is wrong with this survey? Now, having checked to make sure it was not a scam, or something, I went to the link. After the first page, what do you think happened? "Hello xxx, To continue to improve the Boy Scouts program, we invite Scouts to complete the following survey. The survey includes descriptions of proposed merit badges under consideration. As a Scout, your feedback will help us determine which ideas should be developed into new merit badges. Based on responses to previous Youth Interest surveys, the following merit badges have been launched: chess, robotics, geocaching, welding, and game design. At the end of the survey you will be given the opportunity to enter a drawing for one of the following: a $10 Scout Shop gift card, a $10 iTunes gift card, a $10 Walmart gift card, or a $10 Target gift card. Please take a few minutes to complete the survey. All responses are due by Tuesday, September 11th. Follow this link to the Survey: Take the Survey Or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser: http://scouting.us.qualtrics.com/WRQualtricsSurveyEngine/?Q_DL=411psjbKO70rAzP_5BAOhWWJrSfYT6B_MLRP_d4GZnT9Xf4KNJpH&_=1 Follow the link to opt out of future emails: Click here to unsubscribe"

NJ, we ask ourselves that regularly, especially since they are as useless as the federal reps. It is going to be interesting this fall when the "you know what" hits the fan if the governor's tax proposal is voted down again. Of course, even when something is passed by referendum, it is immediately sent to the courts where more often than not, it seems, the omniscient judge(s) throw it out. But the weather is great most of the time, and doesn't everybody like a bit of "shake and bake"? It helps that I am old, was raised by lessons from the depression that I took to heart. You know, there are needs and wants; if you can afford the needs only, that is what you do.

Base'; so non OA scouts can put something there that fits, showing they are members of the Tote -n-chit lodge. Learned my lesson a long time ago about even suggesting an error to any scout other than my own unit. Was made to understand in no uncertain terms it was none of my business, and he (the leader, at least in camp said that is where it goes). Oh well; grit teeth and as noted persevere with what is important.

Yep, I can agree with that. Shout, but do it about something real. Don't hold your breath. They also should absolutely allow other party candidates to be there if they choose, period. Guess they are afraid someone might think a third option might be better.

It would be great if we could have a couple of "real" debates. What they call debates is nothing but a programmed shouting match most of the time. But then, anyone who has actually debated, knows how shallow and superficial they are. Unfortunately, most people watching them are like sheep, and already have their herders pushing them around.

In today's world, we have many misperceptions based on the society willing to accept an absolute minimum of effort, as long as they at least come in contact with the requirement, or someone told them, and they wrote it on the requirement sheet. I am fairly certain that is why I have so few come to me for citizenship badges, as the word is out that I might actually ask them to explain the material they wrote down in their own words, just to verify they actually grasp it. Not sure what we can do about that, other than just explain to a disgruntled parent that just writing it down does not show an understanding, and I still expect them to understand and be able to show me they do. Of course, while I prefer the parent sitting across the room stays quiet, once we had an interesting discussion between her, her son, and me regarding the meaning of rights versus license. We do what we can do and hope we succeed at some level. Thanks to all that take the time and try to assure a scout learns something.(This message has been edited by skeptic)