skeptic

And not just with skills. The PL Council, or Green Bar Council was the go to for both youth advancement on basic skills for the lower ranks, but also were the judges and juries for most issues of discipline or unit functions. Adults sat in to observe, and only if absolutely required would they use their adult power, and often even then it was taken to the committee if needed. Peer pressure is a good thing, and the expectation that you are NOT performing skills properly, as monitored by the peer group, is very powerful. And IF some type of disciplinary function was needed, it too was more likely to be accepted due to the peer issue, understanding that the adult leaders and committee still had the final say. But that was rarely something that happened, and I saw more than one scout turn their attitudes around when confronted by the PLC.

From my old guy view, only as a feedback for the actual approval of the SM or his assigned adult proxy. Part of the role of a SM is to mentor, and Scout Spirit is a primary element of that description. Still, the older days, when the PLC actually did boards for the lower ranks, is a great loss to today's leadership training, at least in my view. The take over by adults of the advancement board was one of the many changes that has catered to the concept that youth are not able to make sound judgements. Again, just my view, though we see the results of NOT allowing young adults to actually become adults in society, now reflected in the dearth of able leadership. Old guy venting.

Rover Scouts were used for a period in the thirties and forties, mostly fo special groups such as staffs and, in one case here, a place for some long cruise Sea Scouts to have like an alumni group of those that made trips to the Arctic from our area. I discovered the two units buried in our records, one for camp staff of our local camp, and the other the Sea Scout group. Cards and charters in a file and now in archives.

And that is simply a very poor reflection on both groups, or actually on those that make those types of decisions for them. Just like in many units, the worst problems too often are related to the so-called adults in the rooms. IF they were focused on the youth, they would do what is best for all.

Interesting that the news article noted the likelihood of a large percentage of false claims having been generated in this mess. It is sad that this Scouter that mentored so many over such a period was put through this. I would like to perhaps hear how the false accusation came about, since the Joh Doe recanted under oath. Why did he do it? I suspect it has some connection to less than honest legal birds I so distain. So, we have a man falsely accused who is now in his own way a "survivor"? How many more may appear? The pendulum may swing some more. While the Survivors that are real need to be acknowledged, so too should those accused wrongly recognized and publicly exonerated.

The worse part of what we are led to believe is that technically they also cannot hang with friends outside of scouting that do not meet the age restrictions. This is one of the many muddied interpretations. When I was in HS, I turned 18 before I graduated and at the time was on the baseball team in school, and some school groups. The YP today would suggest that I could no longer play on the HS baseball team because it had youth under 18, nor could I go to dances or social activities of the school and mix with my younger classmates. Common sense continues to take a back seat to paranoia in our society and its linked legal maze.

Sadly, the SE has finagled the board to his control more or less, and getting COR's to actually do their job is very hard. In theory, they could fire the SE, but unless a cooperative wave occurs, that will not happen, and attempts to get a list of all of them has been denied as private, even thogh it should not be. The President told me he would assure as many of them as possible would meet with him, but only time will tell. I hope the President is doing a stealth maneuver. Will see.

Certainly an issue with ours, sadly. We continue to flounder with most of the things noted not in clear use, and some missing for the most part. Volunteers, even those of us that have struggled in the past, are frustrated and we are not able to get clarity and straight info, or so it seems. Our Council board President assures us they are working on this, but it is very slow, just smoke and mirrors. I hope it is not the latter. Meanwhile, our only viable camp is shuttered, and the SE has insulted so many unit and district volunteers that the list is likely pages long. Will be interesting to see if some ideas to fix may show, but frankly, it is unclear if we have a way around the SE.

Just about my favorite poem. It, along with Crossing the Bar more and more come to mind for some reason. Both of course relate to getting old and entering that unknown.

Anyone caring to dig a bit, and have an open mind to look beyond the surface can discover indicators that BP's early efforts were more military focussed, but fairly soon changed to working to guide the youth of the time to be better citizens. Similarly, a close look at the BSA in the teens into the run up to WWII certainly show a similar emphasis, though obviously colored by the period in history. The serious and willing historians for the the program seem to have evolved to the concept of citizenship and responsibility and away from the direct military focus of some of the earliest knockoffs. Lost to many is the societal respect of Scouting, especially in BSA in the first half century or so. Chivalry and simple respect somehow fell by the wayside for some reason in many places, and the foolish "insult" of calling someone "such a Boy Scout" gained traction for some reason over time, and the concepts that are the foundation of Scouting fell into limbo of some type. Yet who, with any basic concern for others and our society could seriously say the tenets of Scouting are somehow bad? If just the Oath and Law were seen as important in broader society, we would have far fewer issues. JMHO of course, and I will be 80 soon.

It is often difficult to admit much of what we did then, prior to the seventies during the high point of Scouting participation was a bit dangerous. But most of us also were pretty aware it was. Still, helmets for bikes, seatbelts, not riding in the back of open trucks, and swimming in n inspected water all were more dangerous than we realized. On the other hand, that very thing made us more aware of our surroundings and challenged us to deal with obversities at times. But the concept that somehow we can make life, and its living, completely safe and sanitary is ignorant. Time again for my favorite stance; Balance along with the concept of Common Sense.

Did they drum up any new members?

Sadly, most likely would get hit by local health authority.

Yes, that was my intent. Sorry. We have chosen to no longer do the Popcorn, as it is NOT a good look due to the prices and such. Also, with YP, keeping scouts in front of stores and so on is challenging should we say? Thank you.

They cannot do that, period. They might though not allow a unit to participate IF they do other stuff too. But, the unit, as long as it is within the rules of National fund raising, can choose whatever they prefer. Now dealing with such a demand is dicy I would guess, but if you have a strong unit with good support, you can suggest some sand pounding I believe, but in a Scoutlike way.

Fine lines exist on how to challenge young people, or even adults. Many, likely most, would not be damaged by once common stunts like the snipe hunt. But, in the modern era, too many youth are unprepared for even a small amount of teasing, and too many parents overreact to it when it occurs. Society will not protect us from our own mental challenges and fears. Care needs to be taken, but much of that is the so called responsible adult being aware if someone is showing stress and removing them from the focus at a minimum, and maybe reviewing things with other adults and even the youth. It is often a judgment call, but awareness, as noted, by those in charge should always be a part of the issues. One of my favorite concepts; Balance.

Some irony here. I have been trying to update my YP off and on now for a few weeks. I use Chrome most of the time, but it will not work at all for some reason, even after assuring the background is cleaned out. Got on earlier using Edge, which I do not prefer. It locked up, and now I am in limbo with the first retake segment. Of course, it should have worked with Chrome, and the hangup is just very annoying. Yet, I get an email about my renewal needed constantly. Guess I will try again later.

As long as individuals or groups try to paint a picture of Child Sexual Abuse in the BSA that is not the truth, then these untruths will continue to be called out. Absolutely true; and the premise plays both directions.

It seems to me that the horse, has been beat until it is no longer even good for the glue factory. Perhaps we can work on doing our best to stop it from happening. There still cannot ever be absolutes, and if it does happen, the response needs to also follow the guidelines, and work to punish the actual perpetrator, and holding any who bent to pressure to overlook or something to accountability.

Thus what we call "thorns and roses" after events at times, especially larger ones. Trying to get the youth to speak can be hard much of the time, as we have a society that tends to NOT encourage them to speak their minds, but with candor and verity. So, they simply glare or look confused. Then, later, someone speaks up out of the circle, so to speak. We should still take that into consideration, and even maybe draw out some more. Always the challenge, but that is part of the job description I think.

That is a great poem. Another old one that I like still is Kipling's If. Growing up in the late forties and early fifties, our Mom read to my brother and I out of Cook's One Hundred and One Famous Poems. I still have that copy of the book, along with other examples, as it was in print for decades, and I think still is in a modified format. Kipling of course was part of the B.P.'s influence for Cubbing. I do not remember for sure, but I believe there is mention that B.P. was friends with Kipling.

I fudged my Nature merit badge in 1959, I think. It grated on my conscious, and later I earned completely Soil and Water, Forestry, and worked on Wildlife Management. I also did insect study. Outside of Scouts, I took a summer school class in biology that I did not need to take, but felt it would also salve my disappointment in myself. It was not just learning about nature and so on, but about myself. Self reflection can be good for you, and as an adolescent, it is even more important perhaps. Another reason we should, in my view, mentor bad behaviour in a way that might allow the youth to do that self analysis.

I find your discussion astute, and agree that age is, as many say, just a number. Of course, in parts of the world that number in regard to youth is varied in its validity for some involvements. In over fifty years in Scouting, more than 45 as an adult, I have had the pleasure of meeting many fine youth and even mentored a fair share, or I hope so. Part of that has been as happened sitting on local Eagle boards, likely at least fifteen or so. Also attended numerous Eagle dinners of recognition and visited with Eagles of all ages, from 13, completed just short of that age, to actually home from college. while the older youth were more on point overall, I still remember one that was just barely 13 at his board. His responses were more focused and mature than most of the many older youth on whose boards I sat. You never know, and to simply use age, or for that matter, gender as your only guideon is foolish in my view. We need to build on these young minds and challenge them, no matter. My generation has not done a good job for the most part, and it is sadly reflected in our societal woes. Thus, Scouting's survival and reincarnation, if you will, is imperative, and age and gender should NOT be a major factor.

Actually, it is mostly more elderly or seasoned males, seemingly unable to get out of the ruts of the past. Of course, rereading some of the historical material on B.P. shows that he was open from the early period to a program for girls, and it was always a work in progress for he and his wife. On the other hand, I have had seen some nuance that older women also have issue to a larger extent than younger. In the end, they are youth, and they all deserve the challenges Scouting in its pure form offers, no matter the chromosomes. JMHO of course.

Well this is a media platform and really a bit misleading. First, she has yet to finish the advancement, if the article is accurate. Secondly, we have no idea, other than the vague mention of bias towards her being female, as to what her experiences actually have been. Is she close to 13? What activities has her unit done? What is her experience outside of Scouting? Is she a prodigy of some kind, or just driven? The comments about some older people being rude and condescending are sad, but again out of context. We really do not know how they came about, or how many actually occurred. So, lets take a breath and see what the final outcome is, and more importantly if she completes it all, she stays with the program and contributes to others reach goals. The young woman that sort of started this push, Sydney Ireland, is now a college graduate; "I’m a recent Amherst College graduate from New York City interested in how psychology influences politics and law. I have a deep interest in contemporary dance and choreography. Since I was eleven years old, I successfully advocated for the inclusion of young women in the Boy Scouts of America. I am a member of the Inaugural class of female Eagle Scouts. In the Spring semester of 2022, I studied abroad at the University of Cambridge, Pembroke College. I just completed an internship at the White House in the Office of Communications. " The reality is that girls and boys are generally equally able to do most things, though some may be harder due to physical limitations. It is no longer really an issue, other than the hype on the age, and we all know of a few boys that we kind of wonder about, and that actually likely are shallow representatives. Give it a chance and see how she is ten years down the road.