skeptic

"The Constitution only guarantees the American people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." Benjamin Franklin

Have to admit that I am on the same page as the regular National basher's on this one. It is so obviously a poor decision and format, but whomever is in charge simply is not too bright. JMHO of course.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/mormon-church-calls-for-more-compassion-towards-gays-homosexuality-not-a-choice_n_2252874.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing5%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D242336 Now this may be the final key to BSA making a more even handed, rational approach on the issue. Will be interesting to see what happens.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=8901494

Pack; I perceive a possible hint that a broader based education is still important, even though it seems to have been pushed aside in favor of narrow focus. This would be especially true in high school from what I see. The integration of writing, grammar, familiarity with basic philosophy and the arts, geography beyond simple political location with math and science is critical. And, while there is a lot of talk about the need for more scientific education, it certainly is not promoted very highly in elementary and middle school due to the focus on teaching to the test(s). Locally, we have a very small Catholic college that still uses the classic teaching approach from the 17th or 18th century, an almost totally inter-related curriculum based on face to face discussion and debate. They also still learn Latin. What is interesting is that those that graduate and go to higher level studies have a very successful track record, much better than most schools. It appears the method of teaching there is a major factor.

Re the Gay comment; thank the biographers who try to fit a different cultural standard into modern day ideas. BP was raised in a totally different environment than most can really understand, one where his way of life was fairly common. That was all male schools, an all male career, and finally, late marriage due to the Empire and its unsettled maintenance by the military and related British civil servants. Teal, at least touches on that reality and simply asks if their might have been a closeted leaning. But, his descendants are part of the British Scouting group, so that reflects on the murkiness of the idea too. Some people simply must make unsubstantiated judgments because they are narrow minded, have an agenda, or simply lack the ability to think beyond their narrow perspectives.

Somehow I do not see B.P. accepting this, based on his numerous spirituality related comments in his writing. At some point, and this is it for me, the program is no longer Scouting. You can have all kinds of hybrids, but the real program is not the same without God or some form of spirituality and belief in something greater than ourselves. JMO of course.

"How many scout scholarships are there?" Quite a few, though the majority are for those completing Eagle. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/sitecore/content/Scouting/About/FactSheets/scholarships.aspx Remember to copy the "whole" address.

Not sure where you get your details on the camps Merlyn; but Balboa swimming pool is open period at certain times, just like all public access pools. Balboa only books part of the property during "part" of the summer for scouting activities. The pool, many of the meeting areas, and even some of the trails are open even when cubs are using the actual camp sites. Fiesta Island has a Scout specific camp during most of the summer; but since they were asked to build it by the other using groups, they also get first summer usage. Remember, they maintain it and furnish all the facility equipment and safety personnel. Other than summer, it is simply open to first come, first served. The fact that scout groups may actually plan further ahead may make them more often the user, especially during key dates. Now, you are "whining", because the scouts actually utilize the facilities they built and maintain. Again, the Randall twins were allowed to continue, once it was established they were not yet sure about their beliefs, but rather following the father's lead. Once they were old enough to make their choice, they lost. But, the reality is, and was, dad was simply looking for notoriety.

Okay Merlyn: Let's start with the really early one, the Randall's, twin cubs in Orange County back in the 90's. The father, a lawyer, sued the BSA because they were atheists. Interesting that one of the of them was quoted attributing nature to "Mother Nature", when asked how he accounted for it. Hmmmmm; dad did not get to monitor his thought process that time. They lost by the way, eventually, though the father pushed it until they were turned down for Eagle. How about the ongoing San Diego camp suits? Those "adults" claim their kids are not able to use the camps because they are administered by BSA. But the general public is allowed to use them, even if not members. I am sure with a bit of additional digging, more of these examples can be found. Not directly related to scouts, but connected, is the lawyer father that sued the school district on behalf of his daughter because of "under God" in the POA. That was thrown out, but certainly she was his pawn, especially since the mother had no problem, nor did she ask him to do it. Your response should should be interesting, as these are "easily" documented.

While there might be a few unfortunate units whose adult leadership overreacts to a kid still searching his way in life, almost always, the real issue is the result of parents and other adults thinking using the kids as pawns for their own agenda is okay. Certainly, most leaders would not "kick a kid out" for legitimate personal searching, especially those that are younger. The average kid will not "personally" be bringing these issues up until after 14 or 15. At that point, it may need to become a point of discussion with unit leaders. But, if the choice is made at that point, then it is part of life to understand that we cannot expect others to simply accept our opinions and change. That is not telling them their opinion is wrong, it is simply helping them live in the real world where choices have consequences. If the parent, who should understand at joining the BSA requirements, makes it an issue, then they are the ones in error, because their children have become pawns in their own personal agendas. I would prefer National make a major redirection regarding the Gay issue, putting it back into the unit as a decision, unless it is pushed by the PC groups into the public. And I actually feel that change will occur sooner than later. The atheist/agnostic issue is not something I see as a problem, as God or similar spiritual incarnations are part and parcel of Scouting, worldwide. Take it out, and you no longer have the same program. Parents need to understand that is the case and simply find other outlets for their kids, or allow the kids to participate while they do their own personal search. Those that attack the kids, as Sentinel says, are completely out of line; and I will tell them so should they do it in front of me. Freedom of "choice" is pretty clear; but it is "your" choice, not mine. And you do not have the right to force it on me or others when you have the option of simply "not choosing to participate". Sorry if that is too simplistic for our more erudite practitioners of political philosophy.

You have just answered a question for me. I have one scout with that issue; I just noticed that it is not showing on his advancement report anymore. Yes, this is simply really a poor response, and also confusing. If leadership changes, or records on the unit or council levels are inadequate, it can really be a problem come time for Eagle record verification with the minimal merit badges, especially if a scout earned more than one. If someone from National actually monitors this, you should move on this to fix it the "right way.

Much of what the scout does reflects from the family interactions. Over the years I have had a fairly substantial number of scouts that always have a book, or sometimes more than one, with them on outings and at summer camp. On occasion, they have had to be asked to please put it away while we did an activity; and it is rather nice to see a boy leaning on a tree in the woods reading. What has often been the case in that regard in the families is that TV was either not allowed (in a few cases) or drastically monitored; same with computer related things as the age has developed. Most did not have phones until high school, and they were very limited plans, meant for real needed use only. While they all relished visiting other kids without those limitations (the overheard grapevine), they mostly were more polite, better at things in general because they actually read instructions and the book maybe, and did well in school. Many also were involved in sports, though they tended towards the more singular type such as track or wrestling. Give a group of scouts, or just kids, the resources and minimal knowledge within the group, then put them on their own to interact. Someone will soon take charge and they will have fun, mostly without much advanced gear. But, it will only happen if there is no other option in many cases. I do now have a bit of a problem with the video games and so on becoming a distraction, even when they are not actually there. A few scouts cannot talk about anything else it seems, if not given a specific challenge or goal. They will generally not argue about going back to the task at hand, though they need to be monitored closely, which is the PL and SPL biggest challenges now. I am surprised at times that so many kids, who can play computer type games non stop, do not seem to have much grasp of the more useful computer skills in many cases. The joke that you need to call the kid to fix the computer is not so accurate anymore. It will always be a challenge to face the image problems of various activities, and the PC stuff related to Scouting currently is not helpful. But, most of the kids know little about it until they are older teens, and they seem to understand that it is not a real part of the unit interaction for the most part. If it was easy, then it might be considered less beneficial too. Do "your best"; that is all that can really be asked.

Basement; I do not live where you do, nor know your kids, but the idea you do not see any athletes or such is nonsense. We have had many scouts in those positions in our area over the years. One year, one of my Eagles graduated 4th in his class and got a full academic scholarship to NAU. But he also was student body president and captain of the water polo team. Have had other similar situations with scouts in other units throughout our council. Then of course you can find numerous Eagle Scouts who are successful athletes in colleges, and even a few making it in the pro's. We simply need to find a way to not hide these success stories, as they are not as unusual as we tend to think.

Interesting Packsaddle; what response would there be if there was some connection to Scouting or the Catholic Church?

Well, the ignore list does not work anyway, as is obvious with this. Noted that two others I put there are also regularly appearing to me; so guess it has a problem. My issue here is that the comments are vicious and dripping with very non scouting attitude. Some of his comments, if you can get past the vitriol, are reality; I have not denied that. But, even if something positive or possibly a move in the right direction occurs, he is negative. So, it is the "black cloud" attitude and extreme comments that I find make his contributions less than believable. But, as noted, apparently, I still will have to see them and decide if I want to read and be rained on with negativity while looking for an element of fact or usefulness. And I hope this attitude IS only visible here, rather than in any direct relations with scouts and scouters, as they certainly would not encourage much on the unit level. Just my own opinion, and I can assure you that I do not wear blinders.

Unfortunately, what is in play with BadenP has little to do with most issues in reality. It is rather his very large personal problem with any element of the professional BSA organization. It is really just sad to me that he feels such animosity towards them. But the extreme comments and constant negativity is beyond the pale, and reflects more poorly on him than on the targets of his venom. Again, as I have said before, I just hope this attitude is not displayed in front of the kids and scouting families. He is now being placed on my blocked list, as I simply do not feel he will change; and the occasional good comment or observation is negated by the log on his shoulder.

Nothing is absolutely black or white; but some are more one than the other. Some issues tend to shade more one direction than the other; but often it is the definition or interpretation that matters. A big difference between a pat on the butt, or in the face attention getting and physically harmful hitting or shaking someone in anger. Few of us were beat as kids; but many of us had our attention focused by a swat on the butt or a stern lecture with hands on shoulders and face to face. This particular issue shades strongly towards non-physical interactions; but there are times when it may simply not work. Just opinion, as always.

It is your district event, and you can do what you want in regard to recognition's. Whatever it takes to get participation should be considered. Nothing wrong with a few special awards or certificates, especially if people have sort of been left hanging for a couple of years. The council cannot dictate to you what you do; they are not paying or running it.

Beavah; Like most of your requirements, but would be a bit more realistic in the number of camping days, but no fewer than 15 certainly. Also would replace the 50 miler with a week as a provisional or actual leader at summer camp with an average size troop; or spend a week on staff in an actual hands on, face to face with scouts daily, camp position for either Cub camp (two sessions) or Boy Scouts. The camp would have to be different every year, and in a different region. Also would serve a "hands on" position at a Camporee or similar event each year, actually camping and running an event with scouts participating for at least half a day; or spend it with the unit leadership in which he participates. But it would not just be the CSE; it would be all the National executives. Maybe National Council could actually sponsor directly units of each type, supporting them as a normal unit would, not with the National budget directly. And the membership would have to be along a mix similar to Brownsea. Not smoking anything; just dreaming a bit along with the rest of you.

Perhaps the idea that not everything is a conspiracy, and that some information should not necessarily be publicly released in regard to National security should be made known to Fox and a few of our noble legislators. Nahhhh!

The great danger in republics is that the majority will not respect the rights of minority. - James Madison Today, in many of these controversies, it is the opposite. But the PC crowd tends to have the vocal media and self important public figures on their podium. Just an observation.(This message has been edited by skeptic) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2012-04-25/news/31402658_1_eagle-scout-lasalle-council-algonquian-district

While the subject of the meeting requested is important and should not be tolerated, the annual renewal specifically relates to the Institutional Head, not the COR. Certainly the charter renewal meeting might very well include discussion of the other issue; but the main point is that it is the IH that is the signatory on the Charter Agreement, along with the District Executive (not commissioner). The COR should absolutely go to the council chief executive, and if necessary higher in regard to the other issue, given it is not something petty and without real merit.

Changing within the unique unit should be nothing more than putting the change into the records on Scoutnet, something possible from the unit person in charge. My understanding is that you can actually do this at recharter, simply changing their position codes on the data sheets. But, they do not have a way to do it in a similar manner during the non registration periods. I could be misunderstanding of course; but it seems I did this myself a year ago for one of my adults. Had to wait for recharter time to do it without a new application. Also just discovered we apparently cannot be registered in two councils unless we pay in each one. I have a long time troop member who stayed on our charter while being registered in the district. She has move to Texas, and I was told last night that she can only stay on the charter here if we file a new app and pay here; so no dual positions if not in the same council apparently. Now that may not be accurate of course, but do not know where to look.