skeptic

Assuming they do not drag this any further, the question arises as to whether the ACLU will now have to return the settlement paid by the city to get removed from the suit?

Your point with your quote? This was the statement as to why the lawsuit was brought; and the court ruled otherwise. So, why are you posting this?

Ninth Circuit finally gets it right. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-boy-scouts-20121221,0,2116614.story

FScouter; apparently the NRA agrees with you to some extent. See their AM announcement. "ALL" issues could be solved by only one ban; "IGNORANCE".

While the program is simply a major element in my own life, it still has to take a back seat to personal issues at times. As a senior scouter with no skin in the game other than my own interests, I have more time. But, I try to make my scouts' families understand that the troop is not the first priority; simply let me know if there are other responsibilities and so on so we can plan appropriately. Basically, it is family, school, possibly church, then scouting; and sometimes seasonal sports before the unit. I expect a scout to keep average or better grades, especially if going for the higher ranks, where it is one of my determinants regarding progress up. Also expect them to be active, cooperative members of their own families. Totally understand parents with other children being less invested, specially if the others are not in scouting. Always is a balance line for everything in our lives. That line is easier prior to, or after family and work priorities. But, we all also know a few senior scouters for whom the program is their family now. Have seen more than one elderly scouter for whom the program and fellowship has been his or her savior. I have nothing but respect for them. But I also know, when they had family around, it took precedence. Merry Christmas; or happy seasonal wishes as you prefer.

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/12/20/bsa-chief-visits-newtown-presents-spirit-of-the-eagle-award-to-tiger-cubs-parents/

In 1960 we had the then young and very attractive Lennon Sisters, and 13 year old Brenda Lee who had just had her big hit, "I'm Sorry". So, headliners were found back then too.

I subbed yesterday in a fourth grade class for part of the day. When checking in, I casually mentioned I had remembered to bring my Santa hat and a favorite copy of THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS to read if time was available. They informed me that I could not wear the hat, and only read the story to myself; NO holiday clothing or allusions are allowed. I have a white beard, and every year at this season some children ask if I am connected to Santa in some manner. The older ones are just trying to be funny, but the younger ones often are serious. Had one of the class girls ask me twice if I might be able to let Santa know she would not be home, but at her uncle's. Told her I would do my best. But, then I could not help but think about what they told me at check in. Just a bit depressing. This whole thing has been beat to death before; but it still astounds me that somehow we are forced to cater to a very small minority because they do not have enough individual strength to simply believe what they choose, and let others do the same. So, Merry Christmas to all that celebrate; and a festive something or other to those that do not. Just please accept that my wishes are not taking any thing away from your personal beliefs.

It is all because those of us from earlier days were allowed to play cowboys and indians, have cap guns, and watch those horribly violent B movies with Tom Mix and Hoppy. So some pass it on to their children and grandchildren who add the influence of video games.

Any average family, even in California, should be able to live on 100K per year comfortably. But they would have to actually budget and live within their means, rather than their wants. There lies the biggest problem with too many families. You do not need a new car regularly, and leasing them is a waste since for the same cost you can own it outright within 4 to 5 years, then drive it another 8 to 10 or even more. Am almost seventy, and have only had 5 cars, all of which were owned. Also have driven economy level for 40 years. Never saw the need to buy things I could not really afford; yet never starved, or felt deprived. Have more clothes than I ever will wear, so why do I need more? I would wager that over three quarters of the families in this country could live on half of what they spend, if they simply understood need versus want. In Scouting, it has been my observation that the scouts that had to earn their way financially for major activities, either partly or totally, always seemed to be the ones most enjoying things. Know that was the case for me at jamboree in 1960, and noted it in 1985 within the troop I served as ASM, and two Philmont expeditions. Extends even to summer camp for most kids. The ones whining and least willing to participate fully are the ones that refused to participate in fund raising because their parents would pay. Ironically, boys that choose to not work at all are also the ones that complain they did not get to do something when their parents cannot afford it. While we are retired and have SS and Medicare, our combined income is no more than $40k, before taxes. Yet we are comfortable and able to share at times with kids and grandkids. Compared to the rest of the world, our country is simply spoiled. Even our poor are way better off than most. That is why it is so sad that we have kids going hungry. I can guarantee that many of these children's parents have the latest phones and so on, cable and more than one tv, and often new, or close to new cars. They also likely smoke, drink too much, and possibly use drugs. Just another reflection of the selfishness too prominent in many here. Maybe it was being raised by parents that were teens in the depression. I know to this day that I seldom waste food; I turn off lights; I repair things if I can, rather than simply throw them away. So don't expect me to feel sorry for those that have made far more than we have over the years, yet are now unable to live in comfort.

One perspective on this thread. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151195531403915

Vote by mail, and it takes me no time at the polls at all, unless I simply drop the mail ballot on the day of the election, which you can do. Then it is simply hand it to a worker who checks it for security and makes sure it is in the box. No reason it cannot be done by most. And we do not have long lines of those who choose to vote directly either. I am more concerned about the national news making projections before the polls even close on the West coast, as it can easily discourage people from voting and then affects local races and issues negatively. No National results should be broadcast until ALL polls are closed. How hard would that be to implement? So Easterners might not know probable results until the next morning; that is certainly better than skewing Western voting.

"The Constitution only guarantees the American people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." Benjamin Franklin

Have to admit that I am on the same page as the regular National basher's on this one. It is so obviously a poor decision and format, but whomever is in charge simply is not too bright. JMHO of course.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/06/mormon-church-calls-for-more-compassion-towards-gays-homosexuality-not-a-choice_n_2252874.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmaing5%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D242336 Now this may be the final key to BSA making a more even handed, rational approach on the issue. Will be interesting to see what happens.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news%2Flocal&id=8901494

Pack; I perceive a possible hint that a broader based education is still important, even though it seems to have been pushed aside in favor of narrow focus. This would be especially true in high school from what I see. The integration of writing, grammar, familiarity with basic philosophy and the arts, geography beyond simple political location with math and science is critical. And, while there is a lot of talk about the need for more scientific education, it certainly is not promoted very highly in elementary and middle school due to the focus on teaching to the test(s). Locally, we have a very small Catholic college that still uses the classic teaching approach from the 17th or 18th century, an almost totally inter-related curriculum based on face to face discussion and debate. They also still learn Latin. What is interesting is that those that graduate and go to higher level studies have a very successful track record, much better than most schools. It appears the method of teaching there is a major factor.

Re the Gay comment; thank the biographers who try to fit a different cultural standard into modern day ideas. BP was raised in a totally different environment than most can really understand, one where his way of life was fairly common. That was all male schools, an all male career, and finally, late marriage due to the Empire and its unsettled maintenance by the military and related British civil servants. Teal, at least touches on that reality and simply asks if their might have been a closeted leaning. But, his descendants are part of the British Scouting group, so that reflects on the murkiness of the idea too. Some people simply must make unsubstantiated judgments because they are narrow minded, have an agenda, or simply lack the ability to think beyond their narrow perspectives.

Somehow I do not see B.P. accepting this, based on his numerous spirituality related comments in his writing. At some point, and this is it for me, the program is no longer Scouting. You can have all kinds of hybrids, but the real program is not the same without God or some form of spirituality and belief in something greater than ourselves. JMO of course.

"How many scout scholarships are there?" Quite a few, though the majority are for those completing Eagle. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/sitecore/content/Scouting/About/FactSheets/scholarships.aspx Remember to copy the "whole" address.

Not sure where you get your details on the camps Merlyn; but Balboa swimming pool is open period at certain times, just like all public access pools. Balboa only books part of the property during "part" of the summer for scouting activities. The pool, many of the meeting areas, and even some of the trails are open even when cubs are using the actual camp sites. Fiesta Island has a Scout specific camp during most of the summer; but since they were asked to build it by the other using groups, they also get first summer usage. Remember, they maintain it and furnish all the facility equipment and safety personnel. Other than summer, it is simply open to first come, first served. The fact that scout groups may actually plan further ahead may make them more often the user, especially during key dates. Now, you are "whining", because the scouts actually utilize the facilities they built and maintain. Again, the Randall twins were allowed to continue, once it was established they were not yet sure about their beliefs, but rather following the father's lead. Once they were old enough to make their choice, they lost. But, the reality is, and was, dad was simply looking for notoriety.

Okay Merlyn: Let's start with the really early one, the Randall's, twin cubs in Orange County back in the 90's. The father, a lawyer, sued the BSA because they were atheists. Interesting that one of the of them was quoted attributing nature to "Mother Nature", when asked how he accounted for it. Hmmmmm; dad did not get to monitor his thought process that time. They lost by the way, eventually, though the father pushed it until they were turned down for Eagle. How about the ongoing San Diego camp suits? Those "adults" claim their kids are not able to use the camps because they are administered by BSA. But the general public is allowed to use them, even if not members. I am sure with a bit of additional digging, more of these examples can be found. Not directly related to scouts, but connected, is the lawyer father that sued the school district on behalf of his daughter because of "under God" in the POA. That was thrown out, but certainly she was his pawn, especially since the mother had no problem, nor did she ask him to do it. Your response should should be interesting, as these are "easily" documented.

While there might be a few unfortunate units whose adult leadership overreacts to a kid still searching his way in life, almost always, the real issue is the result of parents and other adults thinking using the kids as pawns for their own agenda is okay. Certainly, most leaders would not "kick a kid out" for legitimate personal searching, especially those that are younger. The average kid will not "personally" be bringing these issues up until after 14 or 15. At that point, it may need to become a point of discussion with unit leaders. But, if the choice is made at that point, then it is part of life to understand that we cannot expect others to simply accept our opinions and change. That is not telling them their opinion is wrong, it is simply helping them live in the real world where choices have consequences. If the parent, who should understand at joining the BSA requirements, makes it an issue, then they are the ones in error, because their children have become pawns in their own personal agendas. I would prefer National make a major redirection regarding the Gay issue, putting it back into the unit as a decision, unless it is pushed by the PC groups into the public. And I actually feel that change will occur sooner than later. The atheist/agnostic issue is not something I see as a problem, as God or similar spiritual incarnations are part and parcel of Scouting, worldwide. Take it out, and you no longer have the same program. Parents need to understand that is the case and simply find other outlets for their kids, or allow the kids to participate while they do their own personal search. Those that attack the kids, as Sentinel says, are completely out of line; and I will tell them so should they do it in front of me. Freedom of "choice" is pretty clear; but it is "your" choice, not mine. And you do not have the right to force it on me or others when you have the option of simply "not choosing to participate". Sorry if that is too simplistic for our more erudite practitioners of political philosophy.

You have just answered a question for me. I have one scout with that issue; I just noticed that it is not showing on his advancement report anymore. Yes, this is simply really a poor response, and also confusing. If leadership changes, or records on the unit or council levels are inadequate, it can really be a problem come time for Eagle record verification with the minimal merit badges, especially if a scout earned more than one. If someone from National actually monitors this, you should move on this to fix it the "right way.

Much of what the scout does reflects from the family interactions. Over the years I have had a fairly substantial number of scouts that always have a book, or sometimes more than one, with them on outings and at summer camp. On occasion, they have had to be asked to please put it away while we did an activity; and it is rather nice to see a boy leaning on a tree in the woods reading. What has often been the case in that regard in the families is that TV was either not allowed (in a few cases) or drastically monitored; same with computer related things as the age has developed. Most did not have phones until high school, and they were very limited plans, meant for real needed use only. While they all relished visiting other kids without those limitations (the overheard grapevine), they mostly were more polite, better at things in general because they actually read instructions and the book maybe, and did well in school. Many also were involved in sports, though they tended towards the more singular type such as track or wrestling. Give a group of scouts, or just kids, the resources and minimal knowledge within the group, then put them on their own to interact. Someone will soon take charge and they will have fun, mostly without much advanced gear. But, it will only happen if there is no other option in many cases. I do now have a bit of a problem with the video games and so on becoming a distraction, even when they are not actually there. A few scouts cannot talk about anything else it seems, if not given a specific challenge or goal. They will generally not argue about going back to the task at hand, though they need to be monitored closely, which is the PL and SPL biggest challenges now. I am surprised at times that so many kids, who can play computer type games non stop, do not seem to have much grasp of the more useful computer skills in many cases. The joke that you need to call the kid to fix the computer is not so accurate anymore. It will always be a challenge to face the image problems of various activities, and the PC stuff related to Scouting currently is not helpful. But, most of the kids know little about it until they are older teens, and they seem to understand that it is not a real part of the unit interaction for the most part. If it was easy, then it might be considered less beneficial too. Do "your best"; that is all that can really be asked.