skeptic

If they paid for Boys Life, they should have gotten it. That is not something you let slide. Not sure how that could happen if you are auditing the paperwork correctly. Registration and BL are listed separately, which means money for BL should be allocated to it. Most issues suggested can be mitigated by simply paying attention and not paying until the figures work out as they should. Granted, with bigger groups, it is a bit more challenging; but it should not be nearly as hard as we seem to want to make it. Due diligence and simply actually reviewing things will eliminate 90% or more of common errors and complaints. Follow through on noted issues will bring the problems down to probably 1%-2%; but someone needs to actually do it. If we abdicate our responsibilities, then we only have ourselves to blame. Sort of like not voting, then complaining about our leaders.

It can become a real experience for cattle ranching, just like any other program camp. Only difference would be the space used. And, with that much area, there may be some gems for simple camping locations and so on. Have to be a lot cheaper than private programs outside of scouting, especially if linked to the regular program in some way. Maybe a day or two program for some groups, and others that spend the whole time just there doing the day to day things a real ranch would do. Wish I was young again.

jblake: Probably because I do not like dry fried food or boiled to death stuff. Seems all my relatives growing up that were from that area, including Kansas too, either fried it death or boiled it to pablum with lots of grease and sometimes odd spices. Or maybe it is simply because I am a California native, which puts me in a totally different world for them; so KDD would be closer to correct.

Got Oklahoma; have a lot of ancestors from there. Wonder where others would have me living?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/23/5-facts-about-atheists/

Okay, I can see that these guys are fools and adult delinquents, but other than them possibly having a connection with BSA outside of this video, where is the Scout involvement? They are not wearing scouting related clothing, nor are there any boys apparently there. So, it seems to me that we are dealing with pure idiots who may happen to have some connection to the program. As usual, we seem to want to somehow put this on BSA with little valid reason other than general media bias to embarrass the program in the public eye. Yes, prosecute them as the dumbies they are; but leave BSA out of it unless you can verify this was done on a Scouting outing and with boys and other adults present.

As noted, it is simply an extra accomplishment. And every camp awards it to adults should they choose to do it. They are good examples for scouts when they do, and the boys generally are proud of their leaders that do it. For those of us at the higher end of the calendar progression, it is likely also a positive experience simply to still be able to do it. Do not see this being a debate in that regard, but then I never did any of mine as a scout. I was 35 when I did it the first time officially.

Love it. Just another scary indicator about the herd mentality we have in society.

KDD; Maybe we simply need "LEADERS".

Not only is it California law for bikes, it is law for ALL wheeled items such as skates, scooters, and skate boards, though other than bikes, there is an age limit for choice. In regard to helmets though, I am a good example of how important they are. I took a bad spill back in the old days in college; and I was really beat up, including a nasty head gash and ache. But it knocked some sense into me and I got a helmet. Admittedly, then I did not go to the doctor, but would not be surprised if I was a walking concussion for a bit, as I had a lot of problems for a month or so concentrating and such. Course it could also simply have been being 20 and in college; you know how distracting that can be. Years later, when I again began biking, I took another big spill. Landed on my head, but with a helmet. Had a headache, but otherwise was fine. The helmet though was cracked down the center from the impact. Had that helmet around a while to show to kids who had issues with the wearing of them. Still, much of this article and so on is simply nonsense. As others have said; you cannot protect them from everything; and trying makes them less able to deal later.

Think I got it right now JB. Although the pols do try to sell us on a lot of odd stuff.

You mean with the two R reps and Palin joining to complain about "using" veterans by some, even as they are grandstanding? Okay.

Here is the latest from FB regarding our so called leadership in the house. This is simply bizarre .

Brew; I guess I should have added that per my own choice I "do not" push off, only touch and turn. Two reasons I suppose; one is that to me pushing off, as noted, is taking away from the purpose, and for me, I cannot see well enough to do flip turns and I will not grab the side to turn. Just me a suppose. But your point is well taken in regard to floating, though most that do that are really good swimmers and go into stroke almost immediately, at least that I have noted. Of course, the other thing not noted is that many camps simply do not have access to open water anymore, so pools are the option left. Our camp only has a reservoir; and due to its size and ecological issues, it is not used for anything but boating. Even canoe swamping is done in the pool. This last summer the reservoir dried up by July, so we had no boating at all. A good leader might consider discussing the challenge with a boy and encourage them to not take shortcuts or advantage of shallow water or pool edges. Ultimately, if the boy actually does the somewhere around 70 lengths is most pools, he still had accomplished more than most.

While I agree that open water courses are the best for the award, it has been acceptable to do it in a pool for decades. Also agree that the spotter and/or observer should add lengths or disqualify if stops are made with feet down, it is not easier necessarily in a pool. I have done 25 official swims in lakes, the ocean, or pools, and frankly, the constant losing of momentum with the turns is tiring; and often you also have to contend with other swimmers either doing laps or just fooling around, which can cause collisions and unexpected water in your mouth. Most camps at which I have done it require a quarter early in the week, and sometimes a half too, before doing the total distance. It has always been a personal thing with me that I have done a few extra lengths to be sure I made the distance and did not miscount or have my observer miscount; and I have felt annoyed at times when they allow kids to stop and start. Ultimately, you always know if you actually did the real thing; and you live with your self judgments. I do not agree with the occasional camp that has allowed a cumulative swim, giving credit for a quarter one day, then another the next and so on. Had one older scout who only made it to first class due to swimming issues, go with me to count in a pool. He decided he wanted to try it. But the only stroke he did well was the elementary back stroke. So, he did it, on his back almost the entire way. He is now a Lt. Colonel in the army and was a Ranger. He jokes that if the gear in the water test was any longer, he would likely be a grunt forever. His daughter already has had extensive lessons, and he will soon put his son in them as well, and he is only 3 I think.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/a-headstand-without-a-helmet-the-postal-service-halts-just-move-stamps/?_r=1&

These are subjective questions. Be fair, consistent, and use common sense If you look at a particular activity and it is not one that most could do, and it is not planned on the troop or patrol level, then it likely does not meet the requirement. No need in making things harder than they need to be.

It seems to me that it is covered by the actual official time it becomes "required" for Eagle, January 1, 2014. Until then it is simply another merit badge. On the other hand, if the Star or Life has not been completed by January 1st due to a missing Eagle badge, then it would fill that spot after the first. Just my own take on it of course. Right now I have a young man who has cooking, but he still needs another Eagle badge for Star because it is not yet required. So he is working on a citizenship badge.

Me too; but backpacking, which was a staple for a quarter century for me, is no longer viable at anything but easy and short (very) due to back and leg issues. What is a bit frightening though is that I am in better shape than a lot of others in our area. We do have the super troops of course that do it all. One or two locally which makes it harder yet for me, as those that want that would rather go where they have it still established and just step in where they find time, rather than risk suddenly being in the lead.

The age thing is affecting our unit directly, and very seriously. Currently, I have no adults that can actively do real back packing or more advanced camping. While I can do the drive ins still, and day hikes are generally within my "eventual" capabilities, the more serious things we did at one time have fallen by the wayside. And frankly, that is not helping with the unit getting real growth. Summer camp had myself at 69, a 67 year old grandfather, and a 53 year old parent about 150 pounds overweight. We all survived, but that was summer camp. We went on a day hike last week of a few miles on an easy botanical trail above town. I had one 40 something with the boys, as I had to wait for a late scout, and the other two older adults stayed with me. We reached a point where there are a series of steps up the steeper hillside, made from ties, and the other two adults with me, both younger, chose (correctly) to not take the challenge. I fortunately was still able; but I had to rest three or four times. Last trip to Philmont in 1990 I was in my mid forties, and it was definitely much harder on me than the one in 1979, even though the itinerary was shorter and less strenuous. I keep trying to find some younger adults to get the outdoor program back on track; but it is Catch 22 of course. Once the program slides backwards, it is just much harder to find someone to step in when they know that they are going to be given much more than they may wish to take on. If it was not for the history of the unit, we are over 90 years old, I probably would have let it go by now. But, being a historian and feeling that the program is still worthwhile, even at the level at which we are currently working, I cannot yet do that. My two best prospects from the unit moved on, as is to be expected, though not out of scouting, just out of the area. Am in contact with many of my past scouts and still hope I may yet get one or two back into the unit. Have three young boys coming in soon, and may see something develop with one of their parents. Can only keep working it I guess.

Depends; if you are older it certainly would be "wise".

Happened onto a broadcast of the National LDS meeting going on, or that went on. My local church broadcasts its service from the previous week normally at 9AM on our local public station; but the LDS program was running most of the day instead. Anyway, listened a bit to one of the major leaders talking about God's love and their interpretations. He really stressed, numerous ways, that ALL are deserving of God's love and forgiveness. Indirectly, he seemed to me to be reinforcing the idea that they, the church, needs to love ALL people, even the ones that are not of their faith or beliefs. Also noted that while it was an LDS program, the speakers sounded like any other Christian denomination in their references to God and Christ. In about a fifteen minute period, quoting from scripture, the Book of Mormon was mentioned only once very briefly; but the basic bible was core material. Interesting, at least to me.

Yep, I think that is it. Was close; but not playing horse shoes.

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but the original World Crest that had to be earned was larger I think. Seems to me there was a time when you could still earn the large one, even while the small one was available. Am too lazy to go digging through stuff to verify, so taking the easy way out here.

My friend whose son just joined a pack as a Webelos is a good example of this. They are spiritual but not religious and do not belong to an church. The den leader is insisting that every scout earn the religious medal for requirement 8 because 'that is how we do it in our pack.' So the family has a choice, pull out of scouting or join a church to fulfill the requirement. Neither accomplishes the goal of the requirement. I see it as just another way BSA is used to support discrimination. What about just going to another pack that is less demanding and out of the loop? And it is not the BSA that is doing this; it is a particular misinformed and didactic leader who really needs to be shaken by a local Cub committee or similar district level person or group. Or maybe someone simply needs to go to the COR; maybe they are not aware of this.