skeptic

Could not connect last night; and had issues earlier this morning. Works now, so I guess that is all that really matters.

Ah, I guess I just did not really get the connection because of the different threads; and yes, my sarcasm indicator does not always work as well as it could or should. But, I guess if my words, with slight modification, are good enough for Kudu to share here, I should consider it a compliment and not a swipe at me. Whatever, as the young people like to say when they really have nothing better to add. Later.

Kudu; Not sure what your use of my words from an earlier Woodbadge post has to do with this unless you simply intend to mock what I said. Hopefully that is not the case. Have no idea who this person is, but it has nothing to do with Woodbadge. Please clarify. Thank you.

Like so many things today, people seem to think they have to have special explanatory seminars to be sure they understand plain English. I have had Eagle candidates come to me with their application and ask me how to fill it out. I ask if they read it, and they said no. What is scary is that most that reach that point are at the top of their peer groups in most areas. Similarly, we have the "feed me the answers" syndrome with merit badges. We have to have work sheets to guide us, or we cannot do the requirements. And, as we have noted here before, most scouts have never read the pamphlets for the MB's, even if the unit has them available for them. Of course, most of these things can be worked out by themselves if they simply try it. People want to be looked upon as capable and so on, yet they so often act as if they cannot do anything without someone guiding them or something. It can be very frustrating.

Just wonder what the thoughts are on these outcomes, as well as others that I have yet to see? These two are pretty important I would think.

Not sure where you are NAE, but in our council it is normally less than a month unless there is some issue; and that is just normal channels. The last one in my own troop was in the council office 3 weeks after the board. The longest I have seen, other than a couple with problems was about six weeks.

Here is a fun image from Garfield[ATTACH=CONFIG]n141[/ATTACH]

You are right; I do not understand because I do not see anybody being harmed most of the time, other than feelings hurt due to thin skin and emotional weakness. Don't pay any attention to something that is against your belief. Simply ignore them or put your own interpretation in the mix; but forcing others NOT to have free speech by threats and litigation is simply abusing their rights at the expense of yours. JMO of course, as I am not hurt either way. We will never reach a point of even near agreement, and I am fine with that. You have a right to your opinion, even if I see it as biased, skewed, and unreasonable. Enjoy.

So, let me get this clear. Both religious individuals or groups and non-religious individuals or groups have the same rights. When the religious groups or persons "publicly" express their views, they are trespassing on the rights of the non-religous. So, the non-religious rights take precedence over the religious rights? I still have a hard time understanding how these individuals are "harmed" by simply seeing or hearing something with a religious significance or symbolism. Seems that they do not have much self assurance if these things have such emotional impact on them. It also appears that there really is NOT equality here, since the religious element MUST give up their rights to the non-religious in so many cases. The scale of justice or whatever is out of balance from my perspective. Now, if the non-religious wanted to be included in these monuments or memorials and they were NOT given the option, then they would have a real issue of bias. But, in most cases, they do not seem to actually want to be included, they simply do not want the religious to express their rightful voice in any manner that they may have to see or hear.

Woodbadge, old or new, has its strong and weak points. I did it in the early 80's the first time, and I had not only a long youth experience in both scouts and explorers, but also had taken a really well established and deep leader training in 1976. Still got a lot of good material and ideas in the earlier course, but was a notch higher in experience than most. But the commaraderie was real, and most came out with stronger leadership capabilities, assuming they did their tickets. As said, the tickets were really the best part for me in increased ability. When I was approached to be one of the guides for the first new course, I took the plunge. Basically we had to run the course while learning it. Maybe because we were the first, we had to put more into really understanding the new directions and ideas. And being a guide truly strengthened me personally. Today's course has evolved into a real "management" school of sorts; and if the participants follow up and stay with it, they will grow considerably. But, it does depend on the ones running it as to how well the results will be from course to course. We have never seemed to have an Old Boys Club of which I am aware, though maybe we do and because I am old and have been around a long time I do not realize we have it and may be seen as part of it. My own experience with leaders is generally positive, beads or not. We have a few that seem to just not get it, that in the end it is for the kids, not the leaders. Much of our reactions to these things are reflected by our general view of our world. It seems pretty obvious to me that we have a few here that no matter what is said or proven within almost 100% accuracy, it will still be a bad thing, or is misdirected to ruin the program. And they worry me if they bring that really negative vibe to the youth. We make our impressions of things within our own personalities and backgrounds. Most of Scouting can and is positive. We simply have to constantly smooth things out and use occasional experiences as teaching and learning experiences. Beads and knots have nothing to do with it; they are simply an element of the overall program. If I am in complete uniform and someone asks about knots, I tell them the truth; same goes for beads should I be wearing them. All skills, whether in the new age or from the old, can be learned and built upon. In some respects, even though we have the sky is falling screamers, the current program has far more intensive outdoor activities. And much of it does not cost a fortune; and like anything, if it is important you find a way. We have better equipment, more professional people open to very specific adventure type activities. But, we also have a society that is afraid of shadows, paranoid that someone or something is out to get them or control them, and tends to take little or no personal responsibility for what occurs in their lives or that of their family. Kids are regimented to death or completely left to their own resources. The best units somehow find a way to use Scouting to get past most of this. And training the parents and related adults is even more important now, because the newest are the output of this current society.

Of course you have to get them attend RT! Other than recharter, SFF, and Popcorn, we have hardly anyone attend. Of course, we try to still give them something at RT, but some things really do require more than a half dozen sleepy people or deer eyed newbies. One good thing recently is the advent of a post RT group of district LDS leaders. They are making contributions both to attendance at regular RT and actual participation, and also in improving the level of Scouting in their units. Do not know if this is a local phenomena, or something out of the upper LDS leadership.

You guys sound like the two Eagle Scout jambo leaders I had in 1960 arguing as to who was the better scout(er) based on how many and what merit badges they had. Both had in excess of sixty or seventy. Meanwhile, the other leader, who never went beyond Tenderfoot, was the one we all liked the best and went to for most things. Frankly, most of the discussions (??) lately have become pretty tedious. While I am at it; Kudu, can you please find something else to complain about and quit the incessant 1916 gripe? I do have to give you credit for finding some really novel ways to sort of connect anything and everything to the idea that somehow National is out to destroy BSA and that anything they do is designed to do that. I am on Medicare with VA backup, so I am not worried too much. Also live in California, and our system is working fairly well. Wow; a state run program. Seems to me that as someone pointed out, the issues are partly due to the Fed's being unprepared to have to run more than half the country. They naively thought most states would run their own as was initially intended, with Fed's as backup. Oh, did we mention that most of the states not doing their own also have the highest percentages of people without proper coverage? I woke up grouchy this morning. Having back issues and I am just "old". So I'll go back to worrying about my own unit and council issues for a while.

Sorry, I am very aware of history and some of the nightmares from its past; and frankly, I just do not see anywhere near the parallels that would cause such paranoia in this country. While I would like to throw most of the government rep's out, and recognize occasional issues we should worry about, I just do not understand how some can be so scared of things that really are not scarey. But, I also see the benefits outweighing the negative with traffic cams at some bad intersections, and I would welcome cameras in school classrooms, having been in them for years. Of course I enjoy the program "Person of Interest" too. Not going to look over my should if no real reason to; just worry about my own actions and how they relate to those around me. JMO of course.

Only in the video of the Bozo's at Goblin Rock.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131030-child-memory-testimony-neuroscience/?google_editors_picks=true

The truth about the public complaints and faux anger from most other leaders is simply a fascade to mollify their own populace who, like our own, wears blinders and are naive to the extreme to the realities of how the world works when international governments are involved. As far as spying on your own people, the same old adage applies; "You have nothing to fear, but fear itself", unless of course you are doing things you would prefer others not know about, or that threaten the greater security of the country. For the most part, few of us really have much to be concerned about with the mundane lives we lead, other than some group other than the government getting access to something that allows them to intrude directly on us. Those individuals more likely will get that info from sources other than the government, as there are data miners far more culpable than NSA or such. I will now go back to my boring existence and try to worry about things that really make a difference or I may actually be able to control directly.

Whatever is "actually" going to come of this will be a mess. IF, instead of spending the last three years trying to get rid of it we had studied the likely issues and changed things, while still holding to the supposed intent, then maybe we could be in a better position. Those who think the system worked before must live in a fantasy world. That we continue to be at the mercy of the Insurance Industry is the real problem. What makes our society different from most of the world is simply that we seem to think basic medical care is not enough. Much of what we insist we need is expensive and beyond most people's reach anyway. Prices have gone up exponentially "before" this particular fiasco. I was uninsured other than basic VA (fortunate in that regard) once I lost my job due to downsizing until Medicare kicked in. We also add to the problem by allowing the Lawyers to constantly hover and threaten, making doctors afraid to NOT do another test or treatment, even when they know it is not needed. Somehow you have to deal with the indigent who need basic care; right now that is through emergency centers. And since they have to treat, those of us that are more fortunate pay more. So, all of you that keep screaming how terrible it is, please find an actual solution that is equitable to ALL. Some things are simply necessary, and dealing with them by taxes or similar government involvement is really the only way to be sure it happens. Take the profit motive out of the health industry and you have half the fix. Put limits back on the pharmaceutical industry such as no public advertising, and restricting their strangle hold on supply and costs go down. Let doctors be doctors, not paper pushers; and find a way to have family practitioners be the norm, rather than specialists. Of course, all of this is just way too hard to do; it might require a little bit of "Common Sense". But of course that is no longer found in most of our public theater, and is quickly disappearing from even the average person's lives.

Again, the reality is that there are some rangers that have had some poor or scary contacts with scouts and scouters, so are a bit biased. But, when compared to the general public and the levels of use, I submit that the respect for the outdoors and others is far greater on the Scouting side. Our local rangers are very pro Scouting because they clean up the messes left by others much of the time, and they also do regular trail work that would not get done otherwise. IF we do have a "reported" negative group our local leaders will respond to it and attempt to deal with the group to improve their understanding and future activity. And I would suggest that this response from the local Scouting community is more the norm than non response, and certainly at a higher level of curative action than is seen in the general public. Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.

http://magazine.ucr.edu/85

If they paid for Boys Life, they should have gotten it. That is not something you let slide. Not sure how that could happen if you are auditing the paperwork correctly. Registration and BL are listed separately, which means money for BL should be allocated to it. Most issues suggested can be mitigated by simply paying attention and not paying until the figures work out as they should. Granted, with bigger groups, it is a bit more challenging; but it should not be nearly as hard as we seem to want to make it. Due diligence and simply actually reviewing things will eliminate 90% or more of common errors and complaints. Follow through on noted issues will bring the problems down to probably 1%-2%; but someone needs to actually do it. If we abdicate our responsibilities, then we only have ourselves to blame. Sort of like not voting, then complaining about our leaders.

It can become a real experience for cattle ranching, just like any other program camp. Only difference would be the space used. And, with that much area, there may be some gems for simple camping locations and so on. Have to be a lot cheaper than private programs outside of scouting, especially if linked to the regular program in some way. Maybe a day or two program for some groups, and others that spend the whole time just there doing the day to day things a real ranch would do. Wish I was young again.

jblake: Probably because I do not like dry fried food or boiled to death stuff. Seems all my relatives growing up that were from that area, including Kansas too, either fried it death or boiled it to pablum with lots of grease and sometimes odd spices. Or maybe it is simply because I am a California native, which puts me in a totally different world for them; so KDD would be closer to correct.

Got Oklahoma; have a lot of ancestors from there. Wonder where others would have me living?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/23/5-facts-about-atheists/

Okay, I can see that these guys are fools and adult delinquents, but other than them possibly having a connection with BSA outside of this video, where is the Scout involvement? They are not wearing scouting related clothing, nor are there any boys apparently there. So, it seems to me that we are dealing with pure idiots who may happen to have some connection to the program. As usual, we seem to want to somehow put this on BSA with little valid reason other than general media bias to embarrass the program in the public eye. Yes, prosecute them as the dumbies they are; but leave BSA out of it unless you can verify this was done on a Scouting outing and with boys and other adults present.