skeptic

It is not your horse to whip. The council should step in and clarify how this was allowed in the first place, as should the troop committee. Someone needs to make it clear to the ASM and leadership in general that they have NO authority to override the normal channels. And those on the OA staff who allowed it need to be retrained too, as there should have been a list of scouts that DID get elected and were invited to do the Ordeal.

17 year old Life Scout helps save home in San Diego area. Wow, another example of actual Scouting in action. http://www.cbs8.com/story/25545665/t...pay-it-forward http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/05/19/imagine-dragons-and-its-eagle-scout-lead-singer-score-5-billboard-music-awards/ And yet another.

Fred, while I know "some" polls recently have slanted slightly in that direction, I would wager that it was done in such a manner to encourage that slant. If a poll were devised that could be as neutral as possible, and not mention PC issues as part of the question in any way, I suspect the positive would still be substantially in the majority. How you take the political issues out of such a poll in today's society is a good question though, as we have relegated the large majority of the population into that "Silent" status, as they simply are too jaded or tired of the nastiness, so simply do not get involved. Just my view of course, but when only a third or so of possible voters even vote, and the poll makers have become so good at skewing the directions of such things both in wording and how they "select" their unbiased pools, we are very likely to not see a truly accurate response on many issues, not just this one. Of course, you are right we need to do some serious top down adjustments in general. Most importantly though, we need to put the membership issue where it applies, which is in each unit and the hands of their CO.

Unless the case to which the judge is assigned has to do with Scouting, why would it have any connection? And, if it was a Scouting related case, then they simply should be willing to recuse themselves. How hard can that rational and common sense idea be?

The problem is simply a society that thinks egocentricity is a good thing, and that cannot simply allow others to live their lives the way they wish. For some reason a lot of people think equal only applies to what they agree with. To me, they are just insecure within themselves; otherwise they would simply shrug and go on with their own lives. JMO of course:rolleyes:

Now on the AOL News links; and there appear to be more positive than negative comments, even on there, though are a few reprehensible ones as always. http://www.aol.com/article/2014/05/11/new-jersey-boy-scouts-escue-ann-curry-from-broken-ankle/20883858/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl17%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D474961

Found this interesting, especially the parts that indicate that membership can be denied should someone not adhere to the premises of the group. So, if any of these is started in a public school or government related entity they are violating non-descrimination rules? Just wonder how this is any different thatn BSA or religious groups? http://www.secularstudents.org/sites/default/files/SSA_regulations_2013_1_24.pdf

Found this interesting, especially the parts that indicate that membership can be denied should someone not adhere to the premises of the group. So, if any of these is started in a public school or government related entity they are violating non-descrimination rules? Just wonder how this is any different thatn BSA or religious groups? http://www.secularstudents.org/sites/default/files/SSA_regulations_2013_1_24.pdf

A more complete story now from Bryan on Scouting. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/05/09/new-jersey-scouts-help-rescue-nbc-journalist-ann-curry/

While some of the books published back then, mostly those never officially authorized in any manner by BSA, were preposterous and that is why they were not recommended officially, they were fairly standard boy pulp material. Most of the EBL titles had at least some semblance of scouting in them, though a bit of a stretch sometimes and not likely to be the norm. But, as noted, scouts and other older teens very often went out on their own back then, and the "real patrol" sometimes went sans adults on a regular basis. It was a different world with many youth activities that today would have someone arrested for neglect or child endangerment. In Scouting, they eventually modified controls for safer activity during the heydays of the forties and fifties. Now our society is so afraid of their shadows and litigation that we too often hold normal growing up back; and the results show every day in kids that have few if any skills, and are afraid to even try because of faux fears and lack of confidence from never being allowed to have real challenge. Of the EBL's 73 titles that are verified, some are handbooks and outdoor skills, and there are a number of noted authors in the mix as well such as Jack London, Jules Verne, and O'Henry.

Thanks Scouter99; Talk about "glaring" mistakes; Can someone with the ability please change the title to NBC vs NBC. Cannot believe I could have missed that; guess it was somehow just too much to think two basically from the same station could be so opposite. The question of course still remains as to why the "positive" story has yet to see the light of day outside of these boards and now some on FB?

Something that seems to draw attention is to mount representatives of pack or troop events on a board for meeting place display. Of course, the history of the unit is enhanced should you be fortunate enough to have some longevity, but even a short period is of interest. Our troop is over ninety years old, and we have met the same place since 1928; our meeting rooms are small museums. But you have to start someplace if history is of importance. The rest, use one or more of the the ideas noted already; cubs tend to like the patches more than scouts, other than the older OA collectors. We do not have OA stuff on the boards though.

While not the expert on stroke definition, I believe they are intended to be more or less the same. The difference is that in the test, they will accept a "version" of backstroke that allows you to rest and float, but is not necessarily "classic" elementary back stroke. The MB requires actually mastering the elementary backstroke. At least that is my interpretation.

Guess that is one way to look at it. On the other hand one must wonder if this is not a fake of some sort as it seems you are unable to find it on Google. It is on the local council FB site though. It would be interesting to know just how rough the terrain was, and how far they had to carry her. Does not sound like something just anyone would have been able to do. I am skeptical that it will get beyond some local coverage though, if at all. Where do you think we should post it, and how should we title, if we move it. I have no problem; maybe a title of Boy Scouts prove their worth, or something like that? Go for it and lets move it if that would be better.

Maybe Ms. Curry would share this with our friend from CBS?

Thanks for posting this; am ordering just to add to my related material from other sources.

Kind of funny, but I have a number of times had 16ish scouts in the front of the van tuning the radio, and more than a few times they end up on oldies or classic rock. Cannot get them to put on classical though.

Like the overall format, especially the specific references to other chapters related to something. The first chapter is a really good refresher for most important hiking and outdoor skills; but it leaves the details to more in depth sections. Generally a very good book. Would agree that it still is not on the same level as the original in much of its content. The 1944 edition was even used by the military for training and reference.

I think that we should focus on making it work and as enjoyable as possible so those doing it will let others know. Also think we need to make every effort to put the positive elements of the program in the forefront and NOT overreact to every petty additional attack by PC people. We are never going to see it at the levels it was once; it is a different world. But, there are still many out there that like it and enjoy it when it is done with a proper outdoor focus and youth led programs. Will it be around in fifty years; likely so, but in what guise is hard to say. Nothing stays totally the same. Just stop being "chicken little's".

Camps should be used as much as possible. If we have space in a camp, and the group is willing to work within camp program and rules, then why not. If you had a group like noted above, the leaders should have been pulled aside and told they are violating the camp rules and being rude to the other campers. If they continued, then they should have been sent home. Of course any such action should be pre warned in their accepting the time in camp and acknowledging the stipulations. An over crowded camp is worse than one not at capacity, and that needs to be considered by an attentive council.

Does the training include how to cook certain foods so you can control their pressure?

More useless training that makes no sense. Now, I could see requiring some kind of minor training for white gas stoves that require priming and such. But since we cannot use those on BSA properties, that is only for backpacking and troop drive ins. How about simply telling leaders to read the directions and do a trial run if they are unfamiliar with a device? A match works better for a lantern on Coleman fuel, as you can get it into the gap for lighting more easily; but otherwise, the long lighters are ideal for most stoves.

Yep, if you are talking the ones with the red strip at the top, I have a box full that nobody will wear in the troop. Now if you are talking the old socks with the garter and tab, that is a different story. Harder to find, and red tabs a bit harder than green.

Here is a link to a copy of the book he wrote about his hike; http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&ref=bf_s2_a1_t1_1&qi=ec4UzHuRU2GGZ1LV3YkyoSACSxA_4101155256_1:1784:4397&bq=author%3Daugusto%2520flores%26title%3Dmy%2520hike. I have a copy in my collection, along with other fascinating true scouting adventures from that era. One of them is called Fliver to Cambodia; it is about 3 French scouts that drove a Model T from France to the Mediterranean and then eventually through ferries, mules, and taking and putting the car back together, ended up in Cambodia by route of the Himalayas. Another, is Hobnails and Heather, a story of U.S. Eagles on a month long hike through Scotland one summer. These stories really are great, but most would not likely occur today with the over protective attitudes so common. They also were done by older teens and even some in the early twenties that were involved still.

Locally, even summer camp is really volunteers, though they are paid for the summer. Really nothing but leaders that step forward to try and make the program happen each summer. Right now we are fortunate to have some really dedicated gentleman as camp director and program director; they have stayed on now for four summers, and the consistency in program and returning staff has really improved the overall summer program. We went through a period of revolving key camp people, and it almost killed us. But, our council so far appears to be behind keeping camp going and doing improvements as they can. Our real problem is simply water, dryness, and small capacity. Last year our reservoir went dry, and not likely to be there this year either; so boating is out. Supplemented with a good mountain bike program and more trails being added in a newly arranged area above camp that belongs to a mining company. That area also is going to get a few small back country camp sites. Reality is though that it is unlikely we ever can hope to reach previous levels. Most of us that joined in the fifties had few other distractions, and the entire country was still riding the WWII patriotism stream. Vets were parents and grandparents in very large quantities, and leaders were almost all war vets, including the president. Little League was just getting a foothold, and soccer was almost non existent, as were all the other youth sport programs. No computers, black and white TV with few channels (if you had one at all), less neighborhood paranoia about kids being attacked or something. Vietnam really hurt any uniformed group in the late 60's and early 70's, and patriotism began to split into the two polar opposite camps of pro and con military and flag respect. On the other hand, even with lower numbers, scouting still offers more outdoor opportunities, and many are superior programs. We have at least a dozen council troops that have large numbers and run monthly backpacking AND drive in programs, and also various options for high adventure in summer and sometimes at Easter break. I am often a bit confused as to why there seems to be so many posters on the forum that "appear" to simply not recognize the huge amount of positive things we still have, even with the professional issues. Yes, much needs to get redirected and National needs a serious shake up in many areas. But even they DO offer a lot of good opportunities, and there are many good people in the hierarchy that are working in the background much of the time to stabilize and improve. It never happens overnight, and our "instant news" via electronic media exacerbates things too often with partial stories with political slants. If most of us continue to work the local units to the best of our abilities, drawing on old and new technologies and skills, we will survive and remain a factor in improving our youth. Bang the "good drums" loudly; feather the "bad drums" as much as feasible.