skeptic

Interesting article, but it is five years old. On the other hand it reinforces what I have said from the start; that allowing girls is a good thing, and the issues the so called experts raise are pretty much non starters for most of the youth. As always, the adults cause the most waves. The likelihood of coed is almost a reality, and it will in time be just the norm, though a few specific troops likely will still remain.

In the first three decades of our troop it was an NRA club as well. The SM owned a ranch and it had an arroyo. He built a range in the arroyo where the scouts trained. We still have remnants of that in historical items, including an interesting journal of names and scores, along with ammunition used. Sam also ran the local camp range for years, and then someone else from the troop took it over. During WWII, all the members that went in the service were marksmen or experts. Below is an interesting target that apparently was used during the War years. I have no idea where it came from, other than it was in a file.

Sadly, that would truly not surprise me in the least. So many of our challenges relate directly to people being too self-centered or simply completely clueless. That, of course brings us back to why Scouting IS still important, if we could just work the basic programs with arm distant adult mentoring. Oh, and lock the lawyers up unless they have a valid reason to be let out. If our society would simply "live the twelve" and see that foundation for what it still is, and was with a few sad exceptions, we would maybe be better off. But blinders seem to have taken over the role of glasses and sunglasses.

Probably trace this directly to Hawaii I think. No changes noted for archery.

We really old guys likely chuckle, or get annoyed by the complaints about that type of thing. I was 15 and a Life Scout when I was sitting on a log at campfire at old Camp Arataba and guys in nice regalia were moving about in the crowd. All of a sudden a very loud yell in my ear found me being jerked to my feet and pushed to the front of the area where I was "tapped out", and I mean TAPPED OUT. All of us were then taken to get sleeping bags and went off to the woods. Of course that was when most tap outs were done heavily and you might hear the shoulder tap a long way away. We all wore the wooden arrow and if you were judged to violating the instructions you could get a notch in the arrow. Three in theory washed you out. Ten minutes before the end the next day, a friend of mine walked up and asked me something, and I answered. Still someplace is that arrow with one notch. He laughed at me a bit, but that was how it was then. The suspense and solemnity of the ceremonies loomed large, and most looked forward to "maybe" being judged worthy. There were restrictions on how many could be voted in based on troop size and number eligible. We all know how it is now. Still, the program has many high spots still, though harder to get to with all the fear of legal stuff and frankly, pampered kids.

And here again we see reality in the U.S. Somehow, not sure we can pinpoint the change, our cultural viewpoints relating to interactions of youth at "those critical years" got skewed to paranoia, rather than growth and learning to deal. Maybe like the concept of the glass half full or half empty? Something less than positive happens somewhere and it is hyped by media and people with skewed reasoning and becomes an issue where it really is not the norm, nor usually a problem. Then the fear mongers grab it and make it worse. Then somebody does a "study", one preordained in most cases, and it escalates to that paranoiac state. Or so it may be from my eight decades of watching and listening and experiencing.

Agreed; but that does not have to be lost with Coed or even with changes in views of normal human interactions. We are only one of the players, and the family should be the number one, with schools and maybe churches involved as well as families allow.

It does not appear to have been any real issue in the larger World Scouting. Adolescent youth are just that, and a coed unit is no more a real problem than simply having classes together or even going to Sunday school. It is normal life for youth, and the coed part is NOT the problem, if there is one. It is poor supervision and lack of parental involvement to teach right and wrong. JMHO of course.

Doing what is a best decision based on realities is what should be the focus. That reality is that allowing Coed will allow units that have recruiting issues more leeway and ultimately likely simply become the norm. One gender units can still function and carry on as their youth choose. The program is NOT for adults directly, only as mentors and advisors. Ultimately it is how well the basic program is allowed, using the patrol method and letting the youth do it with oversight for safety and adherence to YP.

Nothing new, only that maybe they are finally listening. But trial is not really needed in my view, as it is obviously the best option for small units already, allowing them to officially do it. We all are aware it is already a silent choice for many.

As I noted earlier, the old tour permit specifically noted no convoying or caravaning. It was on the permit someplace and had to be noted and signed. But, basically, as noted here everyone should know where they are going in case they get lost. Meet up places for head count is a good idea. Most importantly have some sort of connection other than vision to the others.

While I seldom drive any distance now, and try to stay off the freeway too, when I do, I am often considered an annoyance, or worse by others. I obey speed limits and when I am on the freeway, I try to not hinder others, but do adhere to that speed. If I am on cruise at the max limit and in the center, for the most part, I will not move over just so someone else can speed, especially when moving would then interfere with my safety. The right lane is the most difficult because it is the entry and exit lane most of the time. I will move to it when light traffic and not dangerous. And I also have finally accepted the fact that if, safe for me, I can move and let the scofflaws go, then return. My father impressed defensive driving and common sense, and I can truthfully claim no moving violations in almost 65 years of driving. Safety, courtesy, and obey the laws.

One of the reasons I was surprised to have them eliminate the filing of the Tour Permit. That was another check to try and make sure rules were followed, as the permit had them and also included verifications of insurance and so on.

Repetitive ad infinitem; the problem was not "unique" to scouting. It was a common issue of society then, as well as, sadly today. It is something somehow dark in some people and part of that darker human nature, if you will. But, again, the date on this article shows that the file was public very early on, so it was not hidden. Horse is dead as far as that part goes.

Simply proof that the IV files were known early on, and that they were not covering them up. The bankruptcy and lawsuits are interrelated. Not news of course.

I have to work on finding this complete article, as I refuse to subscribe to get past the barrier. I have two search sites to go to, so maybe will find it. Meanwhile, I thought it was interesting to note. Take a look and share if you find detail before I do. SUBSCRIBE FOR $1/WEEK Account Boy Scouts' 'Red Flag List' Bars Undesirables, Col. Roosevelt Says; ' We Want to Preserve Fineness,' He Tells Jubilee Session in Chicago -- Rabbi Asserts We Must Choose Between Scouts and Hoodlums -- President Roosevelt Is Again Honored. Share full article Special to THE NEW YORK TIMES. May 18, 1935 Credit...The New York Times Archives See the article in its original context from May 18, 1935, Page 1Buy Reprints New York Times subscribers* enjoy full access to TimesMachine—view over 150 years of New York Times journalism, as it originally appeared. SUBSCRIBE *Does not include Crossword-only or Cooking-only subscribers. Full text is unavailable for this digitized archive article. Subscribers may view the full text of this article in its original form through TimesMachine. CHICAGO, May 17. -- Disclosure that the Boy Scouts of America maintain a "red flag list" of persons regarded as undesirable influences on youth was made by Colonel Theodore Roosevelt today before the twenty-fifth anniversary meeting of the Scouts National Council. VIEW FULL ARTICLE IN TIMESMACHINE »

https://www.mariettatimes.com/news/local-news/2024/03/smith-scouts-become-leaders/ Finding ways to incorporate the community locally might be the best way to redeem the program. My experience with the general public when we do flag and patriotic stuff at the local government center, or on some occasion in the past when hiking, has almost always been supportive. Many have gushed and said they had thought BSA was gone and were really happy for our work and efforts. I suspect this may be far more prominent than the nay sayers will admit. Just my view.

Okay. Interesting, though a bit deep or maybe confusing. Discussions of the Eastern philosophies can be like that. We likely do not want to confuse, but rather, with luck, enjoin them in actual use of their cerebral abilities, then share that with peers and others?

It seems to me that too often being conflict averse leads to conflicts of interest and lack of engagement in life. What do I know? Mine is more in the rearview now.

I have a friend in Virginia whose daughter earned her Gold and who is very active in general in school, soccer, and other things. I asked him his opinion. His response was that the Girl Scouts encourage the girls to be activists. An interesting view from someone that has been involved a long while with them, and and also has a boy tht is now Life.

And another one appears. Now it is the AKC. https://www.aol.com/news/american-kennel-clubs-pedophile-problem-140634396.html Again, it is not just BSA. It is a societal problem, and the focus needs to be far broader. But it will never be completely stopped, as that is not part of the human nature element. "Still no excuse for the mistakes and actual abuse in BSA."

From my reading, I believe that Agnes, BP's sister, was asked, or perhaps assigned, the role of developing a girl group after BP met with a large group of girls at the first International gathering in London. According to the report, the girls told him to his face that girls could and should be scouts, and they made their own group. Eventually, Lady BP of course took over the program more or less as Agnes never really enjoyed it particularly. I continue to find that tale amusing, as most of us may have met a few focused and determined young women.

What can we say, other than good for her. https://richmond.com/opinion/column/hanover-hypocrisy-book-censorship-girl-scout/article_ca2c06be-fde7-11ee-8aea-939bb71a3f14.html

So, while I have stated numerous times that I have no issue with the proven or even likely cases that occurred. But, the context of this discussion continues to rely on mostly unsubstantiated numbers and the theory that the worst proven or validated occurrences are the norm. Yet, as far as we know, most have never gotten beyond the finger pointing. Just as McMartin was surely not the norm for such things, it also ruined a lot of lives with little or no verification. And that has been verified. The real problem I see is that emotion, empathy, and broad brush accusations tend to take the front, and IF someone is one of the proven victims it becomes for them the only reality. Here is a fairly details discussion of this subject. https://psychlaw.net/what-you-need-to-know-about-child-sexual-abuse-claims/ Like anything, it will not necessarily have meaning to the reader, but it does seem to be good reason for caution in all of these cases. Victims or survivors are due their recompense. I agree. But, the exaggerations and vague claims do not. And certainly the lawyers do not deserve the inflated fees. Those on here making scurrilous comments towards me need to take a step back and note I have NEVER said there is not, or was not a problem, nor that it should have attention. We have real victims posting on here, and they are deserving of the full weight of a balancedMin legal settlement. Balance is a factor if the system is really to work. There is no way to ever give enough money to "fix" these atrocities. But the theater of exaggeration should not be allowed to seem the norm. Just an old guy that wants to get beyond this and rebuild. No matter what is done, it will NEVER be foolproof. And that goes for ALL youth serving groups.

"But we do know that one basic prerequisite here is proving one's "connection to scouting". Yes, and many cannot, yet they're still count as "someone" that filed a claim. The lawyers certainly have done little real vetting, that has been noted already. And, if that "real" connection and an actual abuse incident is whown, they are due recompense. Are you expecting apologies from the name collectors and legal manipulators for all the verified false claims?