skeptic

While few scouts follow through after meeting me for the Scouting Heritage MB, I always add Bill to my accepted historical scouters to report on, along with Edgar Robins, and Norman Rockwell. I have most of the reprints from the thirties and forties, as well as many from the sixties, in my collection. The earlier ones would easily lend themselves to an actual book. Maybe our illustrious forum founder, who likely has them all, should consider looking into the possibility of republishing them?

Interesting piece. Did not leave much to the imagination as to where he stood. Was I the only one that picked up on his NOT signing the one leader's books; think it was because he did not write them. Found the leaders little whine about it to be amusing, but then remembered I may have on occasion felt a bit miffed about something that made little sense to me at the time too. He mentioned near the end his agenda. Wonder how much that has had to do with the apparent National distancing. Thanks for posting the link.

And I only thought it would bring a small bit of amusement after one of my best Eagles posted about his prize winning craft beer. It surely evolved into more than I expected.

There is a reason why the general term is Scouting; that covers youth and adult participation. Of course Vigil populations are heavily adult in most, if not all lodges. As pointed out, even if a youth becomes Vigil, it is generally either in the "gray area", or close to it. Then they go off to school, start adult lives, and if we are lucky, eventually reappear as Scouters. So they join the lodge where they are, as adult Vigils. My understanding is that adults elected CANNOT be greater in number each yea than youth. So, if there is a shortage of qualified youth, then there will be fewer adults elected as well each year. Most lodges would not survive without those adult members, many whom are Vigil because they have been there a long time and continue to support the program. Continue to NOT understand why there seem to be so many individuals that find fault with adults living the program in its many variations. At the same time, I do feel there should be more effort to include the youth in decisions in many areas in which they once were predominate. Adults are still there as coaches and mentors, not to actually run the program.

Arizona; While I found the report/research interesting, and to have valid considerations, I am not sure that it is basically flawed. By ONLY surveying those "perceived" to be minorities or "non-white", you are bound to arrive at skewed perspectives to some extent. Also, I wonder how much their findings were affected by the possible prejudice of those responding, especially since apparently less than 50% (Over 4,800 students of color completed the online survey, yielding a 45% response rate.) of the target group even chose to be part of the study. Now, we obviously do not know why those that made that choice did so, but it seems to me that we automatically end up with a group predetermined to be more sensitive to the issue. One cannot help but wonder a bit about how much of the perceived microaggression is more a projection of the responder's personal belief, insecurities brought with them, and their cultural heritage. Some of the examples given could just as easily occur with other individuals that do not fit these ethnic and racial categories. Certainly I have felt left out, segregated, or otherwise marginalized at times in various group interactions. Some of it was my own lack of confidence because of unfamiliarity of various types, and some was simply normal initial reticence in a new environment or experience. It is a reality that ethnic/racial groups tend to band together naturally in large populations; but they will mix to a large extent while involved in the dynamic of the activity. Still, as soon as the class or whatever is over, they will recongregate in their previous preferred groups of friends, often again ethnically/racially segregated, by their choice. This has been my personal experience in the service, 3 large universities, and even in smaller group settings much of the time. Again, while I fully understand that sociologists and psychologists contribute much to the better understanding of numerous societal problems, including those related in this study, I wonder how much they may exacerbate things at times by inventing new, purposefully slanted, terminology, such as microaggressions, microinsults, microinvalidations and microassaults. To some extent in our society today it is these types of studies that lend credence to the anti-intellectual attitudes by a considerable percentage of of our population. How much different would this study's result have possibly been if it had had an equal amount of responses from perceived majority students, e.g., white? We need to be aware of our tendencies to stereotype and to extend our personal prejudices from our upbringing and cultural background. On the other hand, we need to be very careful to not focus so much on perceived slights that we over-react and in turn respond in similar fashion.

While perusing FB postings from a few past scouts, as well as a now retired camp director, bragging about their various craft beers, I had the sudden inspiration about developing a Brewing merit badge. We already brew root beer for our weekly closing dinner at our summer camp, to go along with our barbecue feast. So, we give the scouts a real adult skill, but limit it to non alcoholic of course. Bet we would have few issues with finding counselors for it.

Agreed.

While we have a few posters that are obviously very negative towards anything National, most older ones are rational and post some good suggestions and comments. But, I sometimes feel as if the more negative too often undermine many of the threads, especially those that are more universal to the program. It is sort of like the political commenters in regard to the country. A lot of rabid "haters" that overrun most conversations and make it difficult to distinguish the more reasonable and non hysterical posts. I have been led to believe that Tico Perez periodically reviews the Forum, and I know at least one of our local exec's occasionally does too, as he once or twice has asked me if it was me posting on some thread. In regard to this announcement; we have some time before he steps in, and I am sure more info will surface. In regard to my original post that started this; it appears already that we have a few who have decided against him, even though there is really nothing to make such a judgement from as yet that has been presented. Hopefully, we can do better.

Actually being skeptical and a bit negative I guess. Have read so many comments over the past couple of years aimed at our last two or three CSE's that I suspect I fear similar treatment with this one. Hopefully I am simply being overly cynical. Other than what I read on the link, I know nothing about the man.

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/05/13/bsa-names-michael-surbaugh-its-13th-chief-scout-executive/ So, does he get a short respite from being beat up; or do some start immediately?

At one time I was ambivalent about the knots, sort of embarrassed early on when I actually earned the basic training award and SM key. But, as time progressed, I realized that earned awards are just that, earned, and not soon after I was established in my unit, I had scouts asking why I did not wear certain things they knew I could. So, eventually, one or two shirts have some knots, two have them all nine. There is what I consider my formal shirt, and some here might say brag shirt; that is the one that goes to the cleaners, rather than through the wash, and has all the devices as well, along with year pins. A second has just the knots, and it is my RT Staff uniform, though I am only an assistant. On the formal shirt, I also have my 1960 jamboree patch on the temporary position, my nametag is from the 1985 Jamboree, and I have the 2010 in the up position. There is a significance to me about having attended those three events in various capacities, and while it occasionally generates "old guy" conversations, most of the time it draws younger scouts' inquiries. Kids more often than not ask about the knots, even older ones occasionally. My standard answer is that I am old and been around forever. If they seriously want to know, I explain them. The attitudes voiced here that denigrate individuals are to me short sighted and rude. Yes, there are a few individuals that likely represent that image; but reality is that most are simply very long serving leaders, and likely deserve a modicum of respect just for that. Respect is earned, just like the knots should be. Kind of like the paper Eagles; most of the kids KNOW, and it tends to show. As long as your focus is on the Scouts first, what difference should it make?

Since I did not post anything regarding this, I guess it was not helpful. But, frankly, I simply do not care one way or the other, as just as in Boy Scouts, it should be the choice of the group involved. Moving on.

We too are fortunate. Have had a dedicated room(s) in our church basement since they opened the current building in 1928. The main room is much like a museum, and they hold most of our district Eagle boards there, partly because of the atmosphere. The second room is starting to take on similar appearance, though is technically the Cub room. We also have access to the rest of the church if it is available, including the gymnasium and kitchen. We store boats in the garage, and have another equipment room of sorts that needs cleaning, but has burn bins and large poles and such in it, along with much camping and hiking gear. Have been told that they met in a Sunday school room for the first 7 years of the troop. When the scoutmaster asked where they were to meet in the new church, they supposedly said, "In the basement where you will be out of the way and not disturb things." Not sure that was the way it was; but there we still are.

Would definitely have to be the entire jamboree experience at Colorado Springs, including the travel experience on the train from California via the Santa Fe Railroad. It was my first time away for more than a week, as well as the only extensive train travel I have done yet. That train had a wood burning stove in their cook car; and we slept in pull down berths, two in each one, which was hard on the smaller scouts when the train tipped somehow. Went from San Bernardino to Colorado through Arizona and New Mexico, with stops in both states; the Santa Fe stop was half a day almost. Toured Garden of the Gods prior to the jambo, though we were disappointed the planned visit to the Air Force Academy did not pan out for some reason. While at the Garden, I, along with three or four other scouts were filmed by a crew making the official movie of the Jamboree; supposedly am in the film for a few seconds hiking there, though cannot prove it for sure. Of course the event itself, still the largest in attendance being the fiftieth anniversary in the peak of Scouting, was "awesome", though we would not have used that term then. Met James Arness; saw Ike pass by in his entourage; was introduced to patch trading; met scouts from all over the world and still have the neckerchief with signatures from some 15-20 countries; and of course experienced the huge arena shows. Still remember with a certain awe the candle ceremony where it was amazingly quiet, even with close to 70,000 people in the bowl. After leaving, we got back on the train and went to Cheyenne for Frontier Days, then over to Utah and floated in the Great Salt Lake, toured the Tabernacle, and saw the huge pit mine for I believe copper. We were supposed to stop in Carson City and Sacramento, but there was almost a day delay due to a flash flood damaging tracks, so we went straight to San Francisco where we stayed in the Grand Hotel and had one entire floor due to the other two troops traveling with us. Had dinner at China town; with about 130 people, we had all the food we could choose, and since many were not fond of Chinese fare, those of us that were stuffed ourselves. Had a half day open time in the city, then finally returned to San Bernardino overnight. Still remember my scoutmaster asking my parents how they afforded to feed me. I was at that stage where I could eat and never worry about weight; and since I was raised to try most things and was not picky, I had lots of opportunity to get left overs during the whole trip. Being from a very small desert town, I also was, along with two other scouts from our area, temporarily the center of attention; and still have clippings and such from the papers. Since then I have been privileged to attend the 75th and 100th events at A.P.Hill as an ASM in 85 and on staff at a food outlet of trading post D in 2010. Would post a photo of me in uniform by the train, but cannot figure out how to do it here.

Nope; have Report, Thanks, MultiQuote, Quote, and Mark Solved. No edit.

Have searched the entire Forum, but have yet to find where I might be able to edit a post after it is actually uploaded. Since I seem to always find an issue with stuff after the fact, I would really like to be able to fix it; or at least make it make more sense.

Thanks; I of course did mean skewering. Have not figured out how to edit anything here yet. Misspelled a word in comment about a scout golf contest back in the thirties on the history forum. Said gold instead of golf; but few notice that one anyway. This supposedly is about crazies in Texas, though there are lots other places too.

The best part of Stewert for me has always been the Fox outtakes. Then his general skewing of our various government agencies and so called elected representatives. The guy that has taken Colbert's spot has been pretty good a couple of times. We will see.

Well, if you caught the John Stewart show last night, you could have seen clips from Fox too. But then, that show loves the loonies; gonna miss his unique perspectives.

Just ran across an ad in the August, 1935 Boy's Life magazine I got in the mail for joining the "Boy's Life Gold Association", as well as entering a national Par contest for a trophy which is shown. The rules do not show, as they were sent with the application. But, found it interesting that this apparently existed. Has anyone ever seen anything related to this? Other than the photo of the trophy, and a picture of a medallion for joining the association, I cannot tell what other items might have been. Suspect some kind of certificate at least for any scouts entering the contest, as well as possible membership card for the association.

Maybe we need a new slogan or something along the lines of "A scout minds his own business" and accepts that there are other opinions than his in the world in which we live. But, in response to Slow Derby, the reason is just that. It was not really an issue unless it was made one; then the individual units dealt with it on their own within their membership and guidance from their respective CO if necessary. They did the same with other disruptive things that might arise within the group that concerned someone; but it was "their" decision. Personal lives were not part of the mix for the most part, and few stirred the pot unless it was blatant or dangerous. Obviously, CO's had input; but then they have that right. Today, we have to have everything somehow a public issue and generate legal and monetary challenges. Much of it has to do with the broad reach of today's media and the focus on the negative and shocking. The radical elements have taken these modern tools of communication and use them to prey on the fears of others. Unless the proverbial "silent majority" finally finds a voice, the trend will simply grow at the expense of common sense (which is on its death bed) and the tyranny of the fringes. But, as noted, I tend to think my personal life is just that. And I was raised with parents and grandparents from the first half of the 20th century, and was fortunate to experience the hey day of Scouting when it was developing the reputation that now somehow is made fun of by comments such as "he is such a Boy Scout", or "What are you, an Eagle Scout?', as if somehow that is a bad thing. Yet, with all the hyperbole, most of us can generally still see more positive than negative when we simply focus on the local units, and work to use the best and not let ourselves be overly influenced by those that would throw out the baby with the water.

While it would only nudge the issue in the right direction, Indian Lore needs to be almost completely rewritten. As part of that, there should be at least one major requirement, maybe more, that specifically focus on "local" tribes from the past. If there are transported tribes, they too should be included, but historically accurately. Since the merit badge is common at camps nation wide, it is even more important that local Native groups be contacted, and possibly even included in summer programs. While our lodge surely can do much better, we do have local Chumash involvement. It is highly unlikely we can ever expect complete local focus, especially in dress and ceremonial elements, when a large percentage are not very exciting or "pretty". Even the preferred tribal depictions are inaccurate though, as the plains tribes had the horse, which tends to be cast so importantly, reintroduced to them after centuries without it. Like anything though, we can do better and work to do so, or we can complain and stop there.

This has just begun the rounds on FB. It is so crazy, it just has to be shared. http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2015/05/02/403865824/texas-governor-deploys-state-guard-to-stave-off-obama-takeover What is really scary to me is that there appear to be elected officials that are catering to these lunies. Of course; there are some here on the Forums that may say this is why BSA moved to Texas.

Is it time for pie?

While there are too many "barely outdoor" units, most still do get outdoors more than the average kids do. And some units are rabid campers and high adventure oriented, as well as the best of the Venture groups. As noted, STEM ideally will utilize hands on, outdoors for many of its challenges, even though because it is science and engineering it needs some kind of lab and classroom experience too. The challenge of course is to keep it in balance, and to take it outside whenever possible. As noted, the overall program opportunities are far superior to the hay day of Scouting. But, I do not see the changes as the cause of decline. I see it as a societal problem that is reflected in Scouting participation. Society no longer respects many of the basic tenets of the program, and of course some consider Scouting to be anathema. But, outside of the political, religious, and PC challenges, we simply have too many options for kids; and many of them allow parents to not have only minimal involvement outside of paying. Scouting still requires parental and family involvement to succeed. And that, of course, is why where it does happen, it is so successful, helping to create outstanding future citizens and leaders. It also, even when only done to minimal standards, instills some modicum of respect and responsibility in kids who stick with it for any length of time. So, whatever we can do to continue to keep it viable and get participation is important. While we will likely never see the percentages of youth involved as in the past, we can stabilize it and continue to grow better citizens and leaders. Just an old guy that tries to see the positive, but not use rose colored glasses to filter it.