skeptic

Here is the first paragraph of my original post; Please review this, as I did, and pose comments based on what it says, rather than emotion. Lot to process, but I see him basically proposing "local option" as the only really viable response to the rapidly changing political and cultural challenges. Guess my mistake was adding the second short paragraph which mentions "local option", and not noting other parts of the speech. Kind of thought that would be obvious from the first paragraph; but keep forgetting to be exact or I will get slapped. So, I will now start a second thread that asks to discuss the other major comments, other than Gay things.

As I suspected, we continue to have the many who focus on the Gay issue, pro or con with little or no wiggle. There was a number of other important comments in the address that are being ignored. For example; the preliminary info on the Chief Executive pay scale and plan. The comments about moving the professionals back towards the core issues in cooperation with the volunteers. It is at least a bit of acknowledgement that some of the complaints coming from the trenches are starting to register, though it is only a start, and they have a very long way to go. In regard to the the Elephant in the room, I am with Calico on this one. Just continue to not understand the fear of letting units continue to do what they already did and do for the most part still, dating to before the Dale disaster. It is simply irrational to be afraid of what another group does. You run yours, and we run ours. As long as we stay within the confines of the basic rules, we will have little problem. And if some other unit prefers to not associate with us for whatever reason, that is their prerogative. And, it is absolutely partly connected to the reality that the continued attacks and lawsuits under the current system are taking away from effectively focusing where we need to, and also taking very large monetary resources as well. As noted numerous times; why not just work your program as you see fit in your unit, and quit screaming that the "sky is falling" because something you may not like or agree with happens elsewhere.

http://scoutingnewsroom.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DR-GATES-REMARKS.pdf Please review this, as I did, and pose comments based on what it says, rather than emotion. Lot to process, but I see him basically proposing "local option" as the only really viable response to the rapidly changing political and cultural challenges. As he notes pretty directly; we need to face the issue NOW, and get heads out of the sand, or we will have it done for us by courts and so on. Not necessarily what some want to hear; BUT THE TRUTH.

Tried to post the actual jpg, but still cannot figure that part out. Anyway; many may relate. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p9mgdMpCFTg/SXDHsBv_w8I/AAAAAAAAABI/c2Q81BTadmU/s1600-h/Eagle+Project.jpg

New York Times obit; note the familiar name. Terry, where might you be on the noted auto-biography? Will it ever see the light of day? William Hillcourt, A Boy Scout Writer And Columnist, 92 AP Published: November 14, 1992 MANLIUS, N.Y., Nov. 13— William Hillcourt, the principal author of the "Official Boy Scout Handbook" who was known to scouts worldwide as "Green Bar Bill," died Monday in Stockholm. He was 92 years old. Terry Howerton, a friend who was working as a co-author on Mr. Hillcourt's autobiography, reported his death on Wednesday. Mr. Hillcourt, who lived in this suburb of Syracuse since 1979, was halfway through a trip around the world when he was stricken. His body will be returned to the United States later this month and buried alongside his wife in Mendham, N.J., where the Hillcourts lived for many years. Next to Lord Robert Baden-Powell, the British general who founded the Boy Scout movement in England in the 1890's, Mr. Hillcourt was the most widely known figure in scouting. He wrote several of the nine editions of the scouting handbook, which has sold more than 33 million copies since its first printing in 1910. Advice for Patrol Leaders Mr. Hillcourt also influenced generations of boys through the tales he told in the scouting magazine Boys' Life as Green Bar Bill, a name derived from the two horizontal green bars that are the patrol leader's badge. Mr. Hillcourt, a pharmacist who was born in Denmark, joined the Boy Scouts' national staff in 1929 and then began writing for Boys' Life. Green Bar Bill passed along his first bit of advice on camping and scouting skills in October 1932. He continued writing as Green Bar Bill until the advice column, which subsequently appeared in comic-strip form, ended in April 1988. Mr. Hillcourt also wrote "Handbook for Scoutmasters"; the Boy Scout's first "Scout Field Book"; the "Field Book of Nature Activities," a guide to the enjoyment of nature; Baden-Powell's biography, "Baden-Powell: The Two Lives of a Hero," and a 50-year history of scouting in America, "The Golden Book of Scouting." Because he was a Boy Scout employee, Mr. Hillcourt received no royalties for the handbook. Instead, he received six free copies for every 400,000 books sold. Photo: William Hillcourt (Boy Scouts of America, 1987)

While few scouts follow through after meeting me for the Scouting Heritage MB, I always add Bill to my accepted historical scouters to report on, along with Edgar Robins, and Norman Rockwell. I have most of the reprints from the thirties and forties, as well as many from the sixties, in my collection. The earlier ones would easily lend themselves to an actual book. Maybe our illustrious forum founder, who likely has them all, should consider looking into the possibility of republishing them?

Interesting piece. Did not leave much to the imagination as to where he stood. Was I the only one that picked up on his NOT signing the one leader's books; think it was because he did not write them. Found the leaders little whine about it to be amusing, but then remembered I may have on occasion felt a bit miffed about something that made little sense to me at the time too. He mentioned near the end his agenda. Wonder how much that has had to do with the apparent National distancing. Thanks for posting the link.

And I only thought it would bring a small bit of amusement after one of my best Eagles posted about his prize winning craft beer. It surely evolved into more than I expected.

There is a reason why the general term is Scouting; that covers youth and adult participation. Of course Vigil populations are heavily adult in most, if not all lodges. As pointed out, even if a youth becomes Vigil, it is generally either in the "gray area", or close to it. Then they go off to school, start adult lives, and if we are lucky, eventually reappear as Scouters. So they join the lodge where they are, as adult Vigils. My understanding is that adults elected CANNOT be greater in number each yea than youth. So, if there is a shortage of qualified youth, then there will be fewer adults elected as well each year. Most lodges would not survive without those adult members, many whom are Vigil because they have been there a long time and continue to support the program. Continue to NOT understand why there seem to be so many individuals that find fault with adults living the program in its many variations. At the same time, I do feel there should be more effort to include the youth in decisions in many areas in which they once were predominate. Adults are still there as coaches and mentors, not to actually run the program.

Arizona; While I found the report/research interesting, and to have valid considerations, I am not sure that it is basically flawed. By ONLY surveying those "perceived" to be minorities or "non-white", you are bound to arrive at skewed perspectives to some extent. Also, I wonder how much their findings were affected by the possible prejudice of those responding, especially since apparently less than 50% (Over 4,800 students of color completed the online survey, yielding a 45% response rate.) of the target group even chose to be part of the study. Now, we obviously do not know why those that made that choice did so, but it seems to me that we automatically end up with a group predetermined to be more sensitive to the issue. One cannot help but wonder a bit about how much of the perceived microaggression is more a projection of the responder's personal belief, insecurities brought with them, and their cultural heritage. Some of the examples given could just as easily occur with other individuals that do not fit these ethnic and racial categories. Certainly I have felt left out, segregated, or otherwise marginalized at times in various group interactions. Some of it was my own lack of confidence because of unfamiliarity of various types, and some was simply normal initial reticence in a new environment or experience. It is a reality that ethnic/racial groups tend to band together naturally in large populations; but they will mix to a large extent while involved in the dynamic of the activity. Still, as soon as the class or whatever is over, they will recongregate in their previous preferred groups of friends, often again ethnically/racially segregated, by their choice. This has been my personal experience in the service, 3 large universities, and even in smaller group settings much of the time. Again, while I fully understand that sociologists and psychologists contribute much to the better understanding of numerous societal problems, including those related in this study, I wonder how much they may exacerbate things at times by inventing new, purposefully slanted, terminology, such as microaggressions, microinsults, microinvalidations and microassaults. To some extent in our society today it is these types of studies that lend credence to the anti-intellectual attitudes by a considerable percentage of of our population. How much different would this study's result have possibly been if it had had an equal amount of responses from perceived majority students, e.g., white? We need to be aware of our tendencies to stereotype and to extend our personal prejudices from our upbringing and cultural background. On the other hand, we need to be very careful to not focus so much on perceived slights that we over-react and in turn respond in similar fashion.

While perusing FB postings from a few past scouts, as well as a now retired camp director, bragging about their various craft beers, I had the sudden inspiration about developing a Brewing merit badge. We already brew root beer for our weekly closing dinner at our summer camp, to go along with our barbecue feast. So, we give the scouts a real adult skill, but limit it to non alcoholic of course. Bet we would have few issues with finding counselors for it.

Agreed.

While we have a few posters that are obviously very negative towards anything National, most older ones are rational and post some good suggestions and comments. But, I sometimes feel as if the more negative too often undermine many of the threads, especially those that are more universal to the program. It is sort of like the political commenters in regard to the country. A lot of rabid "haters" that overrun most conversations and make it difficult to distinguish the more reasonable and non hysterical posts. I have been led to believe that Tico Perez periodically reviews the Forum, and I know at least one of our local exec's occasionally does too, as he once or twice has asked me if it was me posting on some thread. In regard to this announcement; we have some time before he steps in, and I am sure more info will surface. In regard to my original post that started this; it appears already that we have a few who have decided against him, even though there is really nothing to make such a judgement from as yet that has been presented. Hopefully, we can do better.

Actually being skeptical and a bit negative I guess. Have read so many comments over the past couple of years aimed at our last two or three CSE's that I suspect I fear similar treatment with this one. Hopefully I am simply being overly cynical. Other than what I read on the link, I know nothing about the man.

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2015/05/13/bsa-names-michael-surbaugh-its-13th-chief-scout-executive/ So, does he get a short respite from being beat up; or do some start immediately?

At one time I was ambivalent about the knots, sort of embarrassed early on when I actually earned the basic training award and SM key. But, as time progressed, I realized that earned awards are just that, earned, and not soon after I was established in my unit, I had scouts asking why I did not wear certain things they knew I could. So, eventually, one or two shirts have some knots, two have them all nine. There is what I consider my formal shirt, and some here might say brag shirt; that is the one that goes to the cleaners, rather than through the wash, and has all the devices as well, along with year pins. A second has just the knots, and it is my RT Staff uniform, though I am only an assistant. On the formal shirt, I also have my 1960 jamboree patch on the temporary position, my nametag is from the 1985 Jamboree, and I have the 2010 in the up position. There is a significance to me about having attended those three events in various capacities, and while it occasionally generates "old guy" conversations, most of the time it draws younger scouts' inquiries. Kids more often than not ask about the knots, even older ones occasionally. My standard answer is that I am old and been around forever. If they seriously want to know, I explain them. The attitudes voiced here that denigrate individuals are to me short sighted and rude. Yes, there are a few individuals that likely represent that image; but reality is that most are simply very long serving leaders, and likely deserve a modicum of respect just for that. Respect is earned, just like the knots should be. Kind of like the paper Eagles; most of the kids KNOW, and it tends to show. As long as your focus is on the Scouts first, what difference should it make?

Since I did not post anything regarding this, I guess it was not helpful. But, frankly, I simply do not care one way or the other, as just as in Boy Scouts, it should be the choice of the group involved. Moving on.

We too are fortunate. Have had a dedicated room(s) in our church basement since they opened the current building in 1928. The main room is much like a museum, and they hold most of our district Eagle boards there, partly because of the atmosphere. The second room is starting to take on similar appearance, though is technically the Cub room. We also have access to the rest of the church if it is available, including the gymnasium and kitchen. We store boats in the garage, and have another equipment room of sorts that needs cleaning, but has burn bins and large poles and such in it, along with much camping and hiking gear. Have been told that they met in a Sunday school room for the first 7 years of the troop. When the scoutmaster asked where they were to meet in the new church, they supposedly said, "In the basement where you will be out of the way and not disturb things." Not sure that was the way it was; but there we still are.

Would definitely have to be the entire jamboree experience at Colorado Springs, including the travel experience on the train from California via the Santa Fe Railroad. It was my first time away for more than a week, as well as the only extensive train travel I have done yet. That train had a wood burning stove in their cook car; and we slept in pull down berths, two in each one, which was hard on the smaller scouts when the train tipped somehow. Went from San Bernardino to Colorado through Arizona and New Mexico, with stops in both states; the Santa Fe stop was half a day almost. Toured Garden of the Gods prior to the jambo, though we were disappointed the planned visit to the Air Force Academy did not pan out for some reason. While at the Garden, I, along with three or four other scouts were filmed by a crew making the official movie of the Jamboree; supposedly am in the film for a few seconds hiking there, though cannot prove it for sure. Of course the event itself, still the largest in attendance being the fiftieth anniversary in the peak of Scouting, was "awesome", though we would not have used that term then. Met James Arness; saw Ike pass by in his entourage; was introduced to patch trading; met scouts from all over the world and still have the neckerchief with signatures from some 15-20 countries; and of course experienced the huge arena shows. Still remember with a certain awe the candle ceremony where it was amazingly quiet, even with close to 70,000 people in the bowl. After leaving, we got back on the train and went to Cheyenne for Frontier Days, then over to Utah and floated in the Great Salt Lake, toured the Tabernacle, and saw the huge pit mine for I believe copper. We were supposed to stop in Carson City and Sacramento, but there was almost a day delay due to a flash flood damaging tracks, so we went straight to San Francisco where we stayed in the Grand Hotel and had one entire floor due to the other two troops traveling with us. Had dinner at China town; with about 130 people, we had all the food we could choose, and since many were not fond of Chinese fare, those of us that were stuffed ourselves. Had a half day open time in the city, then finally returned to San Bernardino overnight. Still remember my scoutmaster asking my parents how they afforded to feed me. I was at that stage where I could eat and never worry about weight; and since I was raised to try most things and was not picky, I had lots of opportunity to get left overs during the whole trip. Being from a very small desert town, I also was, along with two other scouts from our area, temporarily the center of attention; and still have clippings and such from the papers. Since then I have been privileged to attend the 75th and 100th events at A.P.Hill as an ASM in 85 and on staff at a food outlet of trading post D in 2010. Would post a photo of me in uniform by the train, but cannot figure out how to do it here.

Nope; have Report, Thanks, MultiQuote, Quote, and Mark Solved. No edit.

Have searched the entire Forum, but have yet to find where I might be able to edit a post after it is actually uploaded. Since I seem to always find an issue with stuff after the fact, I would really like to be able to fix it; or at least make it make more sense.

Thanks; I of course did mean skewering. Have not figured out how to edit anything here yet. Misspelled a word in comment about a scout golf contest back in the thirties on the history forum. Said gold instead of golf; but few notice that one anyway. This supposedly is about crazies in Texas, though there are lots other places too.

The best part of Stewert for me has always been the Fox outtakes. Then his general skewing of our various government agencies and so called elected representatives. The guy that has taken Colbert's spot has been pretty good a couple of times. We will see.

Well, if you caught the John Stewart show last night, you could have seen clips from Fox too. But then, that show loves the loonies; gonna miss his unique perspectives.

Just ran across an ad in the August, 1935 Boy's Life magazine I got in the mail for joining the "Boy's Life Gold Association", as well as entering a national Par contest for a trophy which is shown. The rules do not show, as they were sent with the application. But, found it interesting that this apparently existed. Has anyone ever seen anything related to this? Other than the photo of the trophy, and a picture of a medallion for joining the association, I cannot tell what other items might have been. Suspect some kind of certificate at least for any scouts entering the contest, as well as possible membership card for the association.