skeptic

Found this of interest, especially in the context of some of the more recent antagonistic discussions on this forum. http://scout.org/wsj2015/content/92536 The author, Scott Teare, shares this near the end of the article. In the words of our founder, and I quote him now: “Let us, therefore, in training our Scouts, keep the higher aims in the forefront, not let ourselves become too absorbed in the steps. Don't let the technical outweigh the moral. (Things like) field efficiency, backwoodsmanship, camping, hiking, good turns, jamboree comradeship are all means, not the end. The end is character with a purpose. And that purpose (is) that the next generation may be sane in an insane world, and develop the higher realisation of service, active service of Love, and Duty to God and neighbour.â€

Now Calico, let's not try and be rational or see another perspective. We have to holler bloody murder if anything NEW is suggested or heaven forbid, actually given a try. Yes, we need to do more to keep the "outing in Scouting", but that is not to say there may not be other avenues of program that can and will work. And, with STEM, reality is that a number of STEM related subjects can play very well into the outdoor program, possibly even enhance it to some extent. When I was at the 2010 Jambo, one of the most popular areas for scouts was the science and technology area. And the Pioneering area there included a number of mechanical devices made from spars and lines. That is technology I think, just as updated First Aide techniques are, or using photography and microscopes to identify plants, insects, or animals from the wild. Use ALL the tools available to draw them in, then find ways to include the outdoors in the overall scheme. Nawww; never work!

Personally, I was fairly confident this would be the decision. But, I am thankful my confidence was proven. Am a bit surprised by the few comments after over 80 views of the original post. More troubling though is that half appear to have wanted the break, and still continue to pound the drums of negativity and conjecture. To me, this shows a total lack of Scout Spirit, and is truly disappointing.

My problem with these reports is that I cannot get the training with older codes accepted. They finally fixed me manually by putting in new codes. But, in the more detailed list all my training shows just about, but since it was decades back, they do not cross reference like training. Have two other members on my adult list with very old training, one as old as mine. So far, have been unable to get it fixed. On the other hand, at least I now can see more info than in the past, especially the YP, which is shown separately.

Recharter fees, on the charter, are $24 per person; Boys Life at $12 (I think still) per; a general charter fee of $20. Other fees would normally be council level insurance, which does not show on the actual charter paperwork, and possibly advance payment for unit honor recognitions. Do not believe councils can add local charges on top of the National fees, though could be wrong. So, theory would say a scout would pay $24 basic, possibly $12, and in our council just under a dollar per scout for insurance. We order JTE patches separately after the fact and do not specifically charge the scout. Scouters are similar. Dual registered in more than one position within the same council only requires one fee, though separate recharter listings. So district or council positions held by unit members are only paid in one charter fee, usually the primary unit, then listed as dual. Same goes for youth who may be in both a crew and troop. We have one dual registration though that is paid twice. One of our adults who is a SB recipient while in our troop, and whose son is an Eagle from the troop, wants to remain on our charter for personal reasons; but she now lives in another state and is active there. She has to send me separate YP verification to manually enter, and she pays in both councils. In our council, we have many units that simply charge a flat fee to cover it all, including padding of various amounts. But, minimum one year fees for recharter should be between $24 and $36, plus local insurance in most cases, about a dollar. The "charter fee" is only applied to the whole unit.

Very poor title; suggests this is a reality when it is simply another stoking of rumor that will upset people to some degree. What is the reason, other than to make more waves? Sorry; but get tired of the constant tendency for some to LOOK for problems and conjecture things to cause friction.

Letters are solicited by the Scout AFTER application and project are turned in to the office. The letters are not absolutely required, and the basic paperwork must be time stamped prior to the candidate's 18th birthday. While relatively uncommon, the absolute last minute paperwork issue is real. The letters are mailed back to the council and then given to the review committee. If any are not received in a timely manner, they do not cause further delay, though the Scout is reminded normally if they are not forthcoming in a reasonable time frame. We normally get at least 80% or better, depending on the candidate and if an employer is included. While it is not on the list directly, we also ask the SM or if necessary, his representative to submit one as well.

Just up on FB, a new Scoutmaster's Blog that shares a B.P. piece from 1932 that fits much of our discussions and complaints on these forums. http://scoutmastercg.com/b-ps-blog-put-yourself-in-his-place/

Just updated mine, and seems to me that the intro has been improved since the last time I took it. It clearly notes that all participants, registered or not, should "be familiar" with the basic YP policies. We try to get parents to at least take the non member on-line program, even if they choose not to actually register.

Can see the uniform police now. They will yell about the way it is rolled, the type of slide and the slides position or if there is a slide at all, or too short or too long, or crooked, or not an "official" one with a FDL or other specifically Scout related symbol, and whether on a collared shirt it is under or over the collar. Surely, they will find more stuff that does not come to mind too. Should be lots of fun to sit back and watch and listen.

Number of posts, all from same individual with an Asian name; one post in character writing. Please block or whatever needs to be done. Thanks.

Oh quit being so logical and using common sense. We live in the age of egocentrism to the max.

Can we say "Captain Obvious"?

And any of this has what to do with the BSA and their leadership decision? IF the CO is a religious organization with certain beliefs, they can adhere to them. Do not see how Canon law, or whatever has much to do with it. This thread started out about Lutherans.

Quit focussing on the trees. The real key to me is the very strong part that says: BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America hereby adopts the following statement on sexuality and adult leaders: Matters of marriage, family, and sexuality raise profound social, moral, and theological questions. The Boy Scouts of America has always been deeply respectful of the religious and moral beliefs of its chartering organizations, including religious organizations. The Boy Scouts of America affirms that sexual relations between adults should be moral, honorable, committed, and respectful. Adult Scout leaders should reflect these values in their personal and public lives so as to be proper role models for youth. The Boy Scouts of America affirms the right of each chartering organization to reach its own religious and moral conclusions about the specific meaning and application of these values. The Boy Scouts of America further affirms the right of each chartering organization to select adult leaders who support those conclusions in word and deed and who will best inculcate the organization’s values through the Scouting program. The Boy Scouts of America rejects any interference with or condemnation of the diverse beliefs of chartering organizations on matters of marriage, family, and sexuality. The message of Scouting is one of toleration and respect for different religious and moral conclusions in this matter, acknowledging that reasonable minds may honorably differ. Any effort to exclude or penalize chartering organizations based on their beliefs or policies regarding marriage, family, or sexuality is contrary to the Boy Scouts of America’s commitment to religious freedom and respect for the beliefs and convictions of its chartered organizations. This is where the real decision is focussed. And in truth, it could just as much be something not related to the Gay issue, like a leader bragging in front of the scouts and others about some kind of affair; or telling suggestive stories; or being drunk or high.

Seems pretty clear to me: BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America hereby adopts the following statement on sexuality and adult leaders: Matters of marriage, family, and sexuality raise profound social, moral, and theological questions. The Boy Scouts of America has always been deeply respectful of the religious and moral beliefs of its chartering organizations, including religious organizations. The Boy Scouts of America affirms that sexual relations between adults should be moral, honorable, committed, and respectful. Adult Scout leaders should reflect these values in their personal and public lives so as to be proper role models for youth. The Boy Scouts of America affirms the right of each chartering organization to reach its own religious and moral conclusions about the specific meaning and application of these values. The Boy Scouts of America further affirms the right of each chartering organization to select adult leaders who support those conclusions in word and deed and who will best inculcate the organization’s values through the Scouting program. The Boy Scouts of America rejects any interference with or condemnation of the diverse beliefs of chartering organizations on matters of marriage, family, and sexuality. The message of Scouting is one of toleration and respect for different religious and moral conclusions in this matter, acknowledging that reasonable minds may honorably differ. Any effort to exclude or penalize chartering organizations based on their beliefs or policies regarding marriage, family, or sexuality is contrary to the Boy Scouts of America’s commitment to religious freedom and respect for the beliefs and convictions of its chartered organizations. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: No local council may refuse to process or approve a charter application or in any way limit the participation of a Scouting unit based upon the chartered organization’s exercise of its right to select adult leaders as provided in this resolution. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT: The Boy Scouts of America will defend and indemnify to the fullest extent allowed by law any bona fide religious chartered organization against any claim or action contending that the chartered organization’s good faith refusal to select a unit leader based upon the religious principles of the chartered organization is in violation of the law.

Here is the same item in a grouping of historical compass photos. The back does not show, but I think whomever suggested it is non BSA may be right. Date is not apparent, but guessing 50's is close, as this general style of pouch was popular back then. http://compassmuseum.com/pocket/pocket_3.htm

" Particually as even the act of sharing Ineligible Files between the groups would probably be perceived as libel against the ineligble individual, crushing the groups under the weight of lawsuits." Interesting comment, as currently we have lawyers suing the BSA because "they did not share" the files.

Is it just me, or are there individuals that truly are not cognizant of Eagle paperwork? Hours ARE tabulated on the project paperwork, and are part of its completion. That is where National gets their periodically published total hours from Eagle projects and value comparisons. The project paperwork has to be approved prior to the BOR, and it is also part of the review package for those sitting on the actual board. On a rare occasion, there could be a board inquiry about hours should something stand out to one of the reviewers; but it is already approved, so generally would simply be a clarification. National has said in regard to total hours and candidate hours that there is no minimum amount. Some projects may have more personal prep hours listed, while others may have few prep, but many and broadly distributed hours for the actual work and such. Part is how the candidate interprets these stats, and part is due to a project's nature.

The OP does not ask about the BOR, simply the hours. Has nothing to do with the BOR though.

Eagle project hours are entered into the National register you put other service in in My Scouting. In our council, the office person that enters Eagle info puts it in as part of the process. So, the answer is yes.

"It seems to me and has been stated earlier, maybe not in this post, that the BSA wants all religious affiliated COs out." Where do you get this idea? After all, roughly 70% of CO's are connected to religious groups; about half of those still have strong concerns about this decision. But, by allowing each to choose their own direction within the unit, how is it an attack on those that disagree? And, how can the slight possibility of being exposed to a Gay leader in larger group interactions be any different than the chance of the same thing in many other public venues such as schools, sports teams, concerts, and so on? Seems totally irrational to have such fear. As has been noted, this whole issue has very little actual effect in most units. We do the program and keep private things private. And we follow YP rules and simple common sense. That is the direction our unit will continue to go with the continued support of the Methodist Church.

Do not see any differentiation in many comments between volunteers and paid employees in the contentions. It seems to me that if you make a choice to volunteer, and you get turned down for whatever reason, you have much room to complain. After all, there is no pay involved, and in this case, there are similar possible opportunities nearby, who very well may decide differently. But, cannot see how there could be suit made under labor laws; there is no paid labor.

No, we agreed on pie a long time back, or so I remember. Of course, that was Beaver or Bob White or other earlier member that has stepped away. Guess cake will do.

Edited by John-in-KC, for best sources: ON THE UMC WEB SITE: Churches Can Have Openly Gay Scout Leaders ON THE UNITED METHODIST MEN WEBSITE: Statement by the General Secretary of the General Commission on United Methodist Men Related to the Recent Adult Membership Policy Shift by the Boy Scouts of America