skeptic

This is offered as an aid, but likely will generate much more, especially people looking for nits. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2016BoyScoutrequirementsFAQs.pdf2016BoyScoutrequirementsFAQs.pdf

Like many things, it was in the bylaws, which they agreed to. But since few really paid attention, they are adding it into the actual signed agreement. It is called, covering something.

Wonder if that is really even possible??

Yep, all of us old people remember the Ordeal arrow or stick you wore around your neck. Violations of rules brought notches, and 3 would send you home. Elections were never automatic, and some very deserving probably never got elected; thus the current system which bypasses the real honor in it for the most part, especially if it is not presented right at the time of the election. Yes, there were some instances of "black-balling" on occasion, but they were mostly dealt with when they happened, though not always I am afraid. Ceremonies were seldom read, and the tap out was impressive in most cases, something younger scouts could witness and hope to be part of, even while it was sometimes a bit scary or rough. but actually memorized, and regalia was a point of pride for many. After the ceremony at my Ordeal, part of the welcome was teaching us the toe-heel and canoe steps for basic dancing. I still can do a rudimentary version, though get tired really fast now. As noted, the removal of most of the unknown ceremonial aspects has really hurt the specialness of it too. Again, I understand need for parents understanding the basics, but kids still love secretive stuff, and being able to prove themselves, even if it is not obvious or seen as acceptable by some. And I still feel much of it could be reestablished without any harm, probably to the overall benefit.

So, let us make up ridiculous possible scenarios so we can ridicule situations with which you have issue and have no real understanding. In the two instances I noted, only one even needed the unusual credit. And one never made it past Star anyway. The other is now involved as a parent and an outstanding example of what most of us would like an Eagle to be. I should note that the other troop leaders and parents are always consulted in these rare challenges. To me, it is far better to work with a scout with unusual familial problems than to simply write them off because it is easier or not within the limits of our static judgemental parameters. And, that is really part of what is wrong in society today. There is nothing wrong with flexibility, as long as it is not the rule, rather than a rare exception. This is my final comment on this. As I said, I can live with my decisions.

While I am sorry that some think my being subjective in making what I deem occasional fair, reasonable decisions about my own troop's activities, I realized on review that I was being a bit adverse by suggesting some were unable to make decisions. I apologize. In almost forty years as SM I probably have one or two boys who needed that decision about summer camps. And they were very active but had issues within their families that made things much harder for them most weekends. Again, I made that decision in fairness, not in favoritism. But, because I made it in a couple of special situations, it was extended to all; again a matter of fairness from my perspective. The first scout worked in his family business on weekends and it took a lot to get him freed up, even for summer camp. Yet he surely deserved some flexibility. One other, years later, had younger siblings and a single mom that counted on his help most weekends while she worked. One of those scouts is still in contact with me and has visited once; and he is now in his forties. Part of being a leader, in my view, is being reasonable and flexible when the need arises, but only in rare instances and for good reason. Life is never black and white. Neither is Scouting. If, by occasionally "finding" a fair and rational solution to a difficult problem I am a poor leader, then I can live with it.

Useful for everyday life would seem to me to be Personal Management, then Cooking and Communications. Second level would be Family Life and Home Repairs, while the Citizenships are good background for succeeding in public interactions if they engender enough awareness in the scout. A case can be made for numerous badges that might lead a specific scout to a lifetime vocation; but that depends on the specific scout, and how much he is encouraged to go beyond the basic to advanced knowledge and skill.

Let's remember that as adults we should be able to do this without making it hard. National has come out with their definitions, but reality is that you are at the troop level and should be able to make a fair, but reasonable decision about actual activity. Why can't we simple make this kind of decision and stop making it harder than necessary? Sure, occasionally someone will really corrupt the intent, but mostly it will be rational and make sense if we simply decide based on the general guideline. Again, if you are a leader; be one. Make decisions that are sensible and fair, and that attempt to adhere to the basic intent of the challenge or requirement. Why is this so hard?

Please note that I only credit scouts who are regularly active, which will include other camping, hikes, and consistent attendance in meetings and service and so on. Like any of these things, it is really subjective. Summer camps now often offer special activities that take the boys out of camp back packing or to other more remote sites, usually for older scouts. I also had to break the bad news to a few scouts one year that when they chose cabins at a summer camp, instead of tent sites, they lost the camping credit, though most already had the long term anyway. Same with skiing trips with cabins and such. Had some scouts take tents to a ski trip one year and sleep outside, just to get the credit. No worse for wear, and even seemed to have fun. We used to be able to visit Vandenburg and stay in the gym; that too did not count for camping; but Edwards did when we stayed at their old, now gone, scout camp called South Track. Make rational decisions that are honest and fair and try not to be frozen by doing so. That is why you are called a leader.

Intent is to NOT have a boy never camp except for a week of Summer Camp. I have always given 2 days and nights for additional weeks at summer camp, as long as the scout is active regularly.

Besides YP verification often missing with the new app, there is also the other section that must be signed by new applicants, the DRP, If it is not done, the app will get rejected for final approval too. You can have any of the key 3 check your training info at any time through Scout Net. They also do post warnings. But too many do not pay any attention, so it suddenly is an issue. At least half the complaints in relation to this very likely actually are because the unit is not verifying stuff properly. Then, when the DE is overloaded, it gets lost in the piles of red tape. Recharter time is mostly nightmare for DE's because of carelessness and not following directions at the beginning.

So sorry to hear. She often brought badly needed perspective on discussions. Prayers for you and your family.

One problem seems to me that the scout too often chooses a badge at these things by the title, but with no idea what it actually may require. EG; Scouting Heritage sounds interesting. After all, they have badges to show, maybe even a small collection. But, what they really do not understand is that it is more than having the old book from Dad, or something. Have to read, and write about someone from Scouting history. The collection part is minor. So, they come for introduction, but never complete it because they need to learn something and prove basic understanding. Getting them to actually read the requirements is the first challenge.

I have just experienced proof positive that Scouintg is a family of support. A week ago I had a TIA and had restrictions on driving, though had a lot of doctor appointments and such. My troop immediately stepped in to help with the needs. When they put me in the hospital with a blocked artery they visited;including our district exec; even had one of my more recent Eagles call me from college on the east coast. After the stent, the doctor said he would send me home, but I needed a ride. Our council exec called to find out how I was while the doctor was in my room. I mentioned I could go home, but needed to get a ride. The exec immediately siad he would drive a rt of about 80 miles to get me home. I would like to think that ours is not the only exec out there that would do such a thing, and am very glad that we have this man as ours. He has shown himself to be well aware of the people in the trenches, but this is truly above and beyond. Hopefully, most unit families are like mine in the way they support their members and families. It helps to know you have people to reach out to in emergencies or rough times.. This experience to me epitomizes the true spirit of Scouting.

http://www.greensboro.com/life/year-old-to-receive-distinguished-eagle-scout-award/article_3be9edba-dd7a-5aed-9eb6-16af1709db48.htm

Another window is always useful. In my view, all professionals should try and get some idea directly from volunteers as to how the program is doing, and so on. They should not forget it really is the unpaid leaders that do the bulk of the heavy lifting and perpeturate the program. Welcome.

Our friend who writes the Scoutmaster's Blog has weighed in on God and related issues within Scouting. The comments on FB have included some serious antipathy towards his comments. Certainly seems to approach the subject with intelligence and common sense I feel. Take a look. http://scoutmastercg.com/a-scouts-duty-to-god/

Does it really matter which thread it is in?

Personally, while I can see the concern about interaction, I feel that would be an easy adjustment for most. Those that really do have issues would still need to have the option to be all of one or the other. Big thing is having proper and consistent coed adult participation, especially in the camping arena. There is no specific wording in the overall mission of Scouting that requires outdoor activities. It is simply a continuation of earlier traditions which fit well into the environments of the time. Coed has existed almost to the earliest days in some form, especially in the older age groups. Growth, while a wonderful goal, is not the reason for the program. It is developing character and good citizens through activities that the youth find enjoyable. And that development is the result of the youth directly involved in THEIR planning and its success. IF, by going coed, the overall program did grow, that would be great; but that should not be the reason to do it. As far as rank and so on, many of the already in place requirements are totally compatible with both genders. Those very few that might really be a problem could simply have options specific to the gender issue. After almost forty years with my unit, I know that challenges are just that. I am for the option, even though I am old and driven crazy by giggly girls in the middle school age bracket. Most of that pretty much goes away as they get older, to be supplanted by other annoyances and concerns. Anything leading to more positive growth for our youth is to be aspired to.

While I already have told the troop we can no longer use the church van, which is a 95 GMC, it is in the Tour Plan files already. Be interesting to see if it gets flagged should I mark the box. Have an outing coming up very soon, so will see what it does.

Wish we had a local shop. REI is way too pricey, though very nice store.

Was trying to possibly find the origin of the quote from the World Jamboree speech noted in another thread. Found this, and it amused me, especially since it was on these boards I first saw the expression and its acronym. From the epilogue of B.P.'s Outlook, page 187: B.P. is discussing his stepping back from the the worldwide movement in 1940, not long before his death; and he compared it to his resigning his cavalry commission. It has been very much the same with the Scout Movement. After being in it up the neck for over thirty years, I went for three months holiday to Kenya. There I developed a tired heart, and a radiumed eye, under a doctor whose orders were "You must stay put here". His orders were further enforced by Hitler and his war, and 'she who must be obeyed' added her voice to the decision. Of course, the acronym SWMBO has been seen numerous times on these threads. Did not realize it was something B.P. had said though.

Mr. Rowe has more sense than to even consider such a move, and do not believe his ego is big enough either.

KenD500 Found similar quote from BSA site; http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/Relationships/ScoutSabbathServices/badenpowell.aspx Similar wording, but not the same in Rovering to Success under "illreligion", as well as a couple of other areas noted from the index. Still have not found the exact source, having looked in a number of his books of writings and such. Again, close proximity to this in Aids to Scoutmastership as well. Have a lot of other books to review. If I find it, I will post it.

Come on; anything President Obama does has to be with an agenda. If he says God bless you after someone sneezes, he is somehow being hypocritical or worse. If he shows simple courtesy to the wrong person, he is somehow licking their boots or some other negative comment. Even the least imaginable positive thing he does, somehow is construed as negative by large groups of poorly educated loudmouths, usually in foul and strident terms. Of course I may be exaggerating a tiny bit; but not as much as I wish. I truly am embarrassed by the image too many represent to the world community. It is one thing to disagree and dislike; quite another to denigrate with rudeness, crass comments, and familial put downs. It is simply sad.