skeptic

Once more I will attempt to add my concern in regard to the Scouting element and its tenets in general. We call, on the unit level, living up to the tenets as best we can, living the Scout Spirit. My observations in general over the past few years is that these politicians and "important players" that like to note their Scouting connections, including having earned Eagle, too often do not demonstrate Scout Spirit. Unfortunately, that seems to fit the general pattern of success for most of them, if stepping on others and taking advantage is termed success. And, as far as Scouting is concerned, the records of many of these same individuals seems to show less than serious concern for the environment and the outdoor pillars of Scouting. Just my own opinion of course, but one developed over decades.

Actually, much of Seton's work, especially that on wolves of Canada, is still a good resource today. His detailed art work on the wolves is some of the most accurate there is and was accomplished by serious field studies.

Interesting. Brings to mind a comment made to me about my less than automaton group of scouts at the rededication of Mt. Baden Powell years ago. B.P. III was there for the ceremony, and we had the opportunity to meet and speak with him. One of my boys interrupted me briefly with something related to them goofing around a bit nearby, and I apologized to B.P.. His response was that my scouts were doing what his grandfather would have liked, basically having fun and camaraderie, while it appeared a number of other groups were very bored and more military like in their demeanor. And you will find comments similar by BP himself in many of his writings.

IF I understand the advancement accounting system, once the rank is officially granted, which is the time of the board completion and approval, then it is in effect. I suppose if there was some really unusual situation that could negate the approval, it could happen, but not just at the whim of a SM or other troop, or even council leader. Certainly, if there was an actual valid concern for some reason, the troop committee would be well served to meet and come up with a plan, which perhaps could lead to a freeze of rank and removal of leadership, and maybe even more severe in extreme cases. But, the event you suggest is simply not valid as described, and if perhaps warranted should still be approved by the committee.

Would agree it has lost its meaning and its aura of mystery. There were limits on how many could be voted in based on rank eligibles and troop size. Ordeals were meaningful, and mostly fair if adults did their job to avoid black balling or hazing. Much was kept out of view of the general public, though was available if people needed info legitimately. Much of the problem it seems to me is related to the larger issue of over protectiveness and nobody should possibly feel bad should they not make the summit of the challenge. I would also submit that there are too many adults that have been ushered into the lodges, again due to changes in the manner of selection, as well as a certain element of you cannot keep me out because it is my right or even I will cause trouble types if you shun me in some way. But would agree that there is far less interest by the average scouts. Our lodge has not had a real dance team in decades, and most ceremonies are read, rather than learned. Lots of challenges, but some lodges find a way if the right people get involved. There are many challenges for the program nationwide, but its image is a bit better locally than a decade ago, and there again are some coming back that left.

Found it encouraging, but still too early to judge. Are they going to force Scoutbook on us? If so, do we get it free at a basic level with registration? And if so, does that mean they will up the cost again? Are they finally going to find a way to keep one ID for a volunteer or youth member? Once assigned, there seems to be no reason that ID would not simply stay with you, even when you become an adult. Surely would make tracking older records easier. And, like we have one person on our charter that chooses to stay there, even though moved and is active elsewhere. She has to register twice, and sends me verification of YP in the other council. Have asked for feedback from one of our local Tech savvy leaders, who also is on the regional level. But, hopefully moving the right way?

Time for the infamous pie discussion????

You let the scouts decide, but with a bit of advice and supervision. As far as flags go, it is simple enough; just do not salute, but rather stand properly at attention when required and put hands over their hearts.

Just share this on FB; thanks.

Isn't it amazing how often just adhering to the Scout Law in some point(s) can solve the issue? Let's see; Kind, Courteous, Friendly, Clean all come to mind in this thread.

One of the things I do not believe has ever been thrown around here is National having a program to help maintain council level camping facilities that continue to struggle with inflation and the normal effects of time. Every year we see more camps lost, mostly due to local inability to meet depreciation issues and changing health and safety codes. If the outdoor program and camping are to be viable on the local levels of the councils, then it seems imperative to develop a method to help resolve these issues. I know that while we have numerous places to do great outdoor stuff, the local fees for use continue to creep higher, and the type of people outside the program encountered continues to erode in basic awareness of common courtesies and protection of the facilities. Having a council owned property that can be used economically and without huge transportation expenses is important. With that in mind, I really would like National to seriously look at putting together something on their level that could support these functions through the bigger donors they have access to. If that were to be developed we might very well see an upsurge in the use of local camps due to improvements being done that often have been put off to the detriment of the facilities and the enjoyment of the camps, making them into that downward spiral of deterioration. If we want to keep Scouting as a viable option for the financially challenges areas of the country, then we need to find a way to help them keep viable outdoor options as affordable as possible, but still with the level of adventure and fun that is found at higher priced places. Related to this would also be a partial solution to the swinging door executives that is more and more common; again in the less prosperous and smaller councils. In many areas of the country, the cost of living is seriously out of control. Starting executive salaries are fairly low, especially with the realities of the job. In our council in So Cal, I have seen a dozen or more good executives forced to thrown in the towel simply because they could not afford to live here. A program to supplement cost of living for younger executives in these councils might allow a greater level of success and simply enough time on the job to develop their skills. I suppose that basically, I would like to see National shift a higher level of focus onto the local levels. It is at the local level that the greater program will live or die.

Stosh; Did go back and finally found the mention of the autism and such. But, I still cannot figure out how this really has anything to do with it, other than an excuse to find fault. Everybody at this point needs to take a deep breath. Overreactions are seldom the best response. Surely simply living the intent of the law should be sufficient, especially related to kind, friendly, courteous, and maybe cheerful too. It certainly is not something that needs to be on a National level of discussion. So, I will not post any more regarding it, as I hope my thoughts are clear enough. Thanks.

I am still trying to figure out where the mention of an autistic child and traumatic past incident comes in. The reality is that now that the media has less opportunity to bash BSA, some of its members simply are looking for new ways. The BSA responses are often very poorly considered, and then add to the issue. But, it really is a lot of noise, as I noted before. Something to distract people from the "traumedy" of our ongoing political tragedy.

For we older Scouters, it is probably not too valuable, other than to track down old friends or something. But, for younger Eagles, it does have some possibly useful opportunities. Of course, I paid for life membership years ago when it was new, so cost is not an issue. Just would like to have it stay accurate.

Went into the current pages of the latest changes for NESA, which has been stuck under the Alumni group. Tried to fix some errors "AGAIN" on my profile, ones I had done before it was put under the Alumni group. Cannot fix Eagle dates or location info which I had corrected when it was just NESA. My Eagle is from a long gone council, and I live in a different place. They show my Eagle where I currently live, but with the right troop number from 1959. They had it right in one of the early books they published, so really do not understand why it is again wrong. Know at least one other member from that same unit, who lives near me, who also had it corrected once and is messed up again. Kind of like the constant issues with training dates and the change in coding that throw out older stuff for some reason. Wrote them a note, but will try to breathe while I wait to see the response if there is one.

Been a while since I saw the green version of the jackshirt. Do not see the reds as often as you once did. Guess they got too pricy for most people. I was fortunate to be able to trade my original with someone after I outgrew it. He was simply selling it, so getting one of a smaller size did not matter.

Lot of noise about nothing, as usual. What I want to know is how it became a news item on Fox. Who took it to the news outlet, and why?

So, now that we have the head of AT&T as president, does that mean all our scout camps will get net access for their volunteer leaders and to run the STEM programs? They can mount equipment at the tops of the climbing towers in many, or simply a large tree.

And, if I am remembering correctly, were not a large majority of the sold people done so by other African tribes? Yes, the trade was European at the end of the line, sold to colonists and so on, but they often came from tribal raids and capture specifically for the trade. Not to say it makes it any less distasteful.

Guess I loosened the hive of opinions. That is good; hope it will stay in the realm of a Scouting Spirit molded discussion.

One of the reasons we really need to engender real leadership in our charges if we are able. Just look at the disaster of those running for office in our seats of government. It is even getting difficult to choose the lesser of the poor choices, as there seem to be no healthy options, at least to me. Those that might move us in the right direction are apparently so jaded that they prefer to stay out of it and simply work on survival. It is truly alarming to me, and I fear for the immediate future of our country, and the world as well. The dearth of leadership on these levels is tragic. Obviously, the old saw that "history repeats itself" has not registered. Yet, somehow, I still have some hope, especially when I interview young Eagle candidates or visit with them at a dinner, or read about their non scout peers that seem focussed on bettering their world. Makes me want to push them to take charge now.

This piece seems to shed much light on the misconceptions of many on what it means to lead, and challenges the reader to truly evaluate how they may choose those best to lead with success, virtue, and honesty. It certainly reinforces for me that we currently have a dearth of choices in this election year, and is a bit frightening from that perspective. Since it appears by the comments that perhaps nobody actually read the article, hereHere are some quotes pulled from it which may encourage you to read more in depth. "The country won’t improve, Adams wrote, until the people begin to “consider themselves as the fountain of power.††It can be dangerous to decide that you need to be led. Schools that used to talk about “citizenship†now claim to train “the leaders of tomorrowâ€; (Rothman in New Yorker) In a book called “The End of Leadership,†from 2012, Barbara Kellerman, a founding director of the Harvard Kennedy School’s Center for Public Leadership, wrote that “we don’t have much better an idea of how to grow good leaders, or of how to stop or at least slow bad leaders, than we did a hundred or even a thousand years ago.†She points out that, historically, the “trajectory†of leadership has been “about the devolution of power,†from the king to the voters, say, or the boss to the shareholders. Khurana points out, deflatingly, that there is little evidence for the “C.E.O. effect.†The most powerful factor determining a company’s performance is the condition of the market in which it operates. “being a leader†isn’t an identity but, rather, a set of actions. It’s not someone you are. It’s something you do. Harvard Business School professor, Gautam Mukunda, grew interested in how different organizations fill leadership positions. He noticed that in some organizations the candidate pool is heavily filtered: in the military, for example, everyone who aspires to command must jump through the same set of hoops. In Congress, though, you can vault in as a businessperson, or a veteran, or the scion of a political family. Mukunda hypothesized that, in highly filtered organizations, leaders would end up being relatively interchangeable; in less filtered organizations, individual variation will be greater. By this logic, generals, but not members of Congress, will tend to be more or less equally competent. As the business books have it, “Managers require, leaders inspire.â€) The distinction persists today. In “Leadership BS,†a book published last year, Jeffrey Pfeffer, a professor at Stanford’s Graduate School of Business, identifies five virtues that are almost universally praised by popular leadership writers—modesty, authenticity, truthfulness, trustworthiness, and selflessness—and argues that most real-world leaders ignore these virtues. (If anything, they tend to be narcissistic, back-stabbing, self-promoting shape-shifters.) To Pfeffer, the leadership industry is Orwellian. But the virtues that they thought of as leaderly—courage, decisiveness, sociability, compassion, trustworthiness, integrity, and so on—matter in ordinary life, too. In our rationalized world, there isn’t much space for earnest discussion about virtue; t .†Sometimes, it’s the people supposedly under one’s control who really call the shots. because our desire for a coherent vision of the world is bottomless, our hunger for leadership is insatiable, too. Leaders make the world more sensible, but never sensible enough. A sense of perspective may be among the most critical leadership qualities. For better or worse, however, it’s the one we ask our leaders to hide."

Below is one of several good thoughts on leadership from the linked article at the end from The New Yorker “being a leader†isn’t an identity but, rather, a set of actions. It’s not someone you are. It’s something you do. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/our-dangerous-leadership-obsession?mbid=gnep&intcid=gnep&google_editors_picks=true

Agree we should try to encourage real cooking on the trail if possible. Part of the problem is that in much of the country now, backpackers have restrictions on real fires often, though there are periods still if planned. Using a backpack stove beyond boiling and simmering is possible, but it generally takes extra parts to achieve good results. And, if you are doing camp to camp, time is a factor. Still, there are open fire options if the seasons cooperate, though the windows may be small. If restrictions are too severe over time, there is usually the backyard barbecue option, though even that can be restricted on occasion. Badge is better overall though, IMO.