skeptic

I think we simply need to quit screaming about everything that we may not agree with that we have little control over and pay attention to our own units and local programs in general. Afterall, most of us are in the trenches where the real program lives and dies. Adjust and deal with issues if they actually happen, rather than complaining about the obviously PC stuff we must navigate around and through. It is not just in Scouting that we encounter these things. Few of the scouts themselves care about anything but whether or not they are having fun, making friends, and some maybe learning new stuff. JMO of course.

Maybe they already voted. After all, a number of DES recipients are up for office or already approved.

HONORARY OFFICERS Section 9. Honorary President and Vice Presidents Clause 1. The President of the United States may, during term of office, be elected to be the Honorary President of the Boy Scouts of America. In addition, living former Presidents of the United States and other citizens who have rendered distinguished service to our country through work for young people may be elected to be honorary vice presidents. Such election shall be by the Executive Board upon the recommendation of the Nominating Committee for such terms as the Executive Board shall specify.

As an addition to this discussion, I also hope National may actually revise these requirements in other areas too. The individuals they offer for reports is a very short list, and some are not nearly as important as some not there. That includes Hillcourt of course, but in my opinion, should include Rockwell and maybe Cassari as well, though the earlier historical element is far stronger with Rockwell. Another left out is Edgar Robinson who really was responsible for West coming over and continued his support even though he was a major YMCA official. I add these three to their choices when we meet, just in case. Of course, other than taking electives out of play a bit, I would feel good having Scouting Heritage as another required one, as it simply seems to me that understanding the history is really important.

Here is the full requirement info: 4. Do ONE of the following: a. Attend either a BSA national jamboree, OR world Scout jamboree, OR a national BSA high-adventure base. While there, keep a journal documenting your day-to-day experiences. Upon your return, report to your counselor what you did, saw, and learned. You may include photos, brochures, and other documents in your report. b. Write or visit the National Scouting Museum in Irving, Texas.* Obtain information about this facility. Give a short report on what you think the role of this museum is in the Scouting program. c. Visit an exhibit of Scouting memorabilia or a local museum with a Scouting history gallery, OR (with your parent's permission and counselor's approval) visit with someone in your council who is recognized as a dedicated Scouting historian or memorabilia collector. Learn what you can about the history of Boy Scouting. Give a short report to your counselor on what you saw and learned. If you visited the BSA’s national traveling tour, Adventure Base 100, in 2010, you may use this experience to fulfill requirement 4b. As a counselor, I actually encourage option "c", though obviously, the others are the more common used. Being a historian of sorts on Scouting, I guess I fit that category for part "C", and I try to put on a couple of displays a year for council events, usually the Annual Meeting and the Eagle Dinner, though will do others if asked and it fits. I also have so much at my house, that we could fulfill that with a visit to me. But, having a troop approaching its centennial if 4 years, and that meets in the same place since the 30's also is useful. Our Scout rooms are mini museums anyway, especially since I was told to clean some stuff out by SWMBO, and it is now on shelves in the rooms. From my own perspective, we too often make the exact reading of requirements too important. They usually have some flexibility, and hopefully, you have a counselor that will find workarounds should they be necessary.

It really makes little difference, but wondered why apparently my posts do not have these arrows? Just curious. Thanks.

Once more I will attempt to add my concern in regard to the Scouting element and its tenets in general. We call, on the unit level, living up to the tenets as best we can, living the Scout Spirit. My observations in general over the past few years is that these politicians and "important players" that like to note their Scouting connections, including having earned Eagle, too often do not demonstrate Scout Spirit. Unfortunately, that seems to fit the general pattern of success for most of them, if stepping on others and taking advantage is termed success. And, as far as Scouting is concerned, the records of many of these same individuals seems to show less than serious concern for the environment and the outdoor pillars of Scouting. Just my own opinion of course, but one developed over decades.

Actually, much of Seton's work, especially that on wolves of Canada, is still a good resource today. His detailed art work on the wolves is some of the most accurate there is and was accomplished by serious field studies.

Interesting. Brings to mind a comment made to me about my less than automaton group of scouts at the rededication of Mt. Baden Powell years ago. B.P. III was there for the ceremony, and we had the opportunity to meet and speak with him. One of my boys interrupted me briefly with something related to them goofing around a bit nearby, and I apologized to B.P.. His response was that my scouts were doing what his grandfather would have liked, basically having fun and camaraderie, while it appeared a number of other groups were very bored and more military like in their demeanor. And you will find comments similar by BP himself in many of his writings.

IF I understand the advancement accounting system, once the rank is officially granted, which is the time of the board completion and approval, then it is in effect. I suppose if there was some really unusual situation that could negate the approval, it could happen, but not just at the whim of a SM or other troop, or even council leader. Certainly, if there was an actual valid concern for some reason, the troop committee would be well served to meet and come up with a plan, which perhaps could lead to a freeze of rank and removal of leadership, and maybe even more severe in extreme cases. But, the event you suggest is simply not valid as described, and if perhaps warranted should still be approved by the committee.

Would agree it has lost its meaning and its aura of mystery. There were limits on how many could be voted in based on rank eligibles and troop size. Ordeals were meaningful, and mostly fair if adults did their job to avoid black balling or hazing. Much was kept out of view of the general public, though was available if people needed info legitimately. Much of the problem it seems to me is related to the larger issue of over protectiveness and nobody should possibly feel bad should they not make the summit of the challenge. I would also submit that there are too many adults that have been ushered into the lodges, again due to changes in the manner of selection, as well as a certain element of you cannot keep me out because it is my right or even I will cause trouble types if you shun me in some way. But would agree that there is far less interest by the average scouts. Our lodge has not had a real dance team in decades, and most ceremonies are read, rather than learned. Lots of challenges, but some lodges find a way if the right people get involved. There are many challenges for the program nationwide, but its image is a bit better locally than a decade ago, and there again are some coming back that left.

Found it encouraging, but still too early to judge. Are they going to force Scoutbook on us? If so, do we get it free at a basic level with registration? And if so, does that mean they will up the cost again? Are they finally going to find a way to keep one ID for a volunteer or youth member? Once assigned, there seems to be no reason that ID would not simply stay with you, even when you become an adult. Surely would make tracking older records easier. And, like we have one person on our charter that chooses to stay there, even though moved and is active elsewhere. She has to register twice, and sends me verification of YP in the other council. Have asked for feedback from one of our local Tech savvy leaders, who also is on the regional level. But, hopefully moving the right way?

Time for the infamous pie discussion????

You let the scouts decide, but with a bit of advice and supervision. As far as flags go, it is simple enough; just do not salute, but rather stand properly at attention when required and put hands over their hearts.

Just share this on FB; thanks.

Isn't it amazing how often just adhering to the Scout Law in some point(s) can solve the issue? Let's see; Kind, Courteous, Friendly, Clean all come to mind in this thread.

One of the things I do not believe has ever been thrown around here is National having a program to help maintain council level camping facilities that continue to struggle with inflation and the normal effects of time. Every year we see more camps lost, mostly due to local inability to meet depreciation issues and changing health and safety codes. If the outdoor program and camping are to be viable on the local levels of the councils, then it seems imperative to develop a method to help resolve these issues. I know that while we have numerous places to do great outdoor stuff, the local fees for use continue to creep higher, and the type of people outside the program encountered continues to erode in basic awareness of common courtesies and protection of the facilities. Having a council owned property that can be used economically and without huge transportation expenses is important. With that in mind, I really would like National to seriously look at putting together something on their level that could support these functions through the bigger donors they have access to. If that were to be developed we might very well see an upsurge in the use of local camps due to improvements being done that often have been put off to the detriment of the facilities and the enjoyment of the camps, making them into that downward spiral of deterioration. If we want to keep Scouting as a viable option for the financially challenges areas of the country, then we need to find a way to help them keep viable outdoor options as affordable as possible, but still with the level of adventure and fun that is found at higher priced places. Related to this would also be a partial solution to the swinging door executives that is more and more common; again in the less prosperous and smaller councils. In many areas of the country, the cost of living is seriously out of control. Starting executive salaries are fairly low, especially with the realities of the job. In our council in So Cal, I have seen a dozen or more good executives forced to thrown in the towel simply because they could not afford to live here. A program to supplement cost of living for younger executives in these councils might allow a greater level of success and simply enough time on the job to develop their skills. I suppose that basically, I would like to see National shift a higher level of focus onto the local levels. It is at the local level that the greater program will live or die.

Stosh; Did go back and finally found the mention of the autism and such. But, I still cannot figure out how this really has anything to do with it, other than an excuse to find fault. Everybody at this point needs to take a deep breath. Overreactions are seldom the best response. Surely simply living the intent of the law should be sufficient, especially related to kind, friendly, courteous, and maybe cheerful too. It certainly is not something that needs to be on a National level of discussion. So, I will not post any more regarding it, as I hope my thoughts are clear enough. Thanks.

I am still trying to figure out where the mention of an autistic child and traumatic past incident comes in. The reality is that now that the media has less opportunity to bash BSA, some of its members simply are looking for new ways. The BSA responses are often very poorly considered, and then add to the issue. But, it really is a lot of noise, as I noted before. Something to distract people from the "traumedy" of our ongoing political tragedy.

For we older Scouters, it is probably not too valuable, other than to track down old friends or something. But, for younger Eagles, it does have some possibly useful opportunities. Of course, I paid for life membership years ago when it was new, so cost is not an issue. Just would like to have it stay accurate.

Went into the current pages of the latest changes for NESA, which has been stuck under the Alumni group. Tried to fix some errors "AGAIN" on my profile, ones I had done before it was put under the Alumni group. Cannot fix Eagle dates or location info which I had corrected when it was just NESA. My Eagle is from a long gone council, and I live in a different place. They show my Eagle where I currently live, but with the right troop number from 1959. They had it right in one of the early books they published, so really do not understand why it is again wrong. Know at least one other member from that same unit, who lives near me, who also had it corrected once and is messed up again. Kind of like the constant issues with training dates and the change in coding that throw out older stuff for some reason. Wrote them a note, but will try to breathe while I wait to see the response if there is one.

Been a while since I saw the green version of the jackshirt. Do not see the reds as often as you once did. Guess they got too pricy for most people. I was fortunate to be able to trade my original with someone after I outgrew it. He was simply selling it, so getting one of a smaller size did not matter.

Lot of noise about nothing, as usual. What I want to know is how it became a news item on Fox. Who took it to the news outlet, and why?

So, now that we have the head of AT&T as president, does that mean all our scout camps will get net access for their volunteer leaders and to run the STEM programs? They can mount equipment at the tops of the climbing towers in many, or simply a large tree.