skeptic

While it is not the norm, I would suggest that there may be a few youth that earn a multitude of merit badges and yet never go beyond the lower ranks. Eagle IS NOT the goal of the program, as has been noted over and over. How much are we disenchanting a boy from simply enjoying the breadth of options in the merit badge program if we push too hard for rank? Most of us that have been around a while likely have stories of very successful young people that stayed with us through high school, and maybe even beyond. Yet they never became Eagle. When you have the privilege of simply visiting with them twenty plus years later, they all still talk about how this or that skill or merit badge had a particular impact. A few will say that their adult work started with the introduction of a lesser earned merit badge. Of course, the history of the program shows vignettes of First Class Scout as being the pinnacle, especially in England. Even the BSA early merit badge books focused differently with their titles; "Be Prepared for"

I find myself torn a bit on this general subject of merit badges and how the scout approached it or is approached. First, it really should be the scout doing the approaching in some manner. Whether he/she does that through a formal "class" setup, or does it independently is often contingent on the badge itself, as well as the scout's true interest in it. If it is one of the "required ones", chances are that the view of the scout is different than his doing, say stamp collecting because he like stamps and enjoys learning more about them. Or, it a scout has from an early age made it his focus to eventually become a specific type of scientist or scholar, their approach is going to be different than one that comes to it as part of the troop group approach, summer camp goo often gimmes, or introduction through a fair. How does the counselor approach the badge and the scout? Is there an interaction, give and take, and a challenge to reach slight beyond the mere basics? Is there actual discussion of the pertinent points, for example, what makes a library a place of learning when discussing the scholarship merit badge. What does the scout think about what is actually written in the Declaration of Independence, and have they actually read it? We are called counselors for a reason, and not simply signers of copied information. Work sheets are wonderful as a base, but we still need to review them with the candidate and discuss where it, especially where that is what the requirement actually says. So what if the scout might need a followup or two. Of course, that reputation is likely one of the reasons I seldom get scouts for Citizenship badges anymore, as I DO challenge them beyond the regurgitated form in their hot hands. All this thrown against the wall, we really are closer to the same basic issues when compared to the past. Counselors were often not really screened to determine if they even should be working with some subjects. It was assumed in the fifties, at least where I was, that most school teachers were good to go for many badges, as long as they had the requirements in hand. Was that assumption good or bad; it is hard to say. I know when I did reading, my teacher insisted on my doing it properly, even though I was the star reader in his class. Similarly, even though at the time I was an A student, I still had to write the essay and actually meet with the principal before I could be finalized. Even Automobiling, my very last one, was more than passing the written test and doing hands on driver training. My high school DE teacher made me discuss certain parts of the code, and even change a tire for him. But none of those people bach then were necessarily specialists, it was accepted that they were interested and would be honest in their approach. We can beat this to death, as is the wont on these forums. Ultimately it is still how the various players view the badge and the guidelines, and how willing we are to actually expect those guides to be used.

And I may have been a bit harsh as well. What I meant to try and say is that we need to all temper our selves at times, especially our knee jerk, rush to judgment. I see the proposed program as positive, as noted already. But it too needs to be monitored and tweaked to work for the specific group. And, part of that monitoring is keeping the youth in the leadership at the Scout level and above. The Philmont program appears to basically be an extension of what has been offered at PTC for decades, and many youth that participated in those PTC groups went on to become adamant, enthusiastic outdoor people. Before the changes to two deep, I twice took youth from my unit that could not go on a trek do to various reasons along to my training weeks and they participated in the program. I had one senior scout in college and an Eagle hired off the trail one summer, and he then returned the following year for the full term on staff. Not every program will work for every unit. Some may need a lot of adjustments. But, to write them off without even trying them, or because we think they are wrong is not the best approach from my perspective. As far as "younger", I likely have been around longer than most on this forum now, having passed my 3/4 birthday and received my fifty-year pin. My doctor told me to stop backpacking, but I still do summer camp so far, and an occasion drive-in. For some reason, after a stroke in 2015 some think I am too old.

I frankly am confused by the response by so many on here. I was at PTC in June and actually spoke with the National Commissioner and her husband, and their grandkids. Granted, it was the NC, but the kids were seriously excited and looked forward to returning. I spoke with another family with younger kids, and they too were excited about going beyond the family level. Yes, you can do "family" camping on your own, but far too many do not. Give them a bit of an entry with a few easy introductions, and suddenly we may have more enthusiasm and interest. They are looking to put the outing back into scouting, and when they do, they open a door to a more adventurous level. Surely, some will never get beyond the training wheels, but others will do that family hike and see options far more challenging, both kids and parents. What is it about the constant naysayers, especially when they have not even had any real involvement with the new option? For years we have struggled to keep kids in the program while combatting family overlap. Now, they are offering a more structured window to this, and it is a window, and many are knocking it. Get over your attitudes and find ways to extend the program with a little nudge after this easier intro.

While I am not able to verify, on another forum, "Talk About Scouting", one poster shares this: "Richard Pennington I am suspicious of this. Seems very unusual that it took place in April and in November it comes out, but only on very odd and little known sites. Plus he posted the article he wrote himself in the PSA group on facebook, almost like a self promotion thing." So, perhaps someone here can expand on this as well. I do know that there are people out there that are doing there best to undermine BSA, no matter what. I was at PTC in June, and the facility was full. I also am not the expert, but I have been led to believe that the ranch cannot be sold anyway. It would revert back to the Phillips family. Of course, that might only apply to the original parts, and it has had a number of additions since.

TOPICS SURVEYS & RANKINGS CASES & VERDICTS PEOPLE & COMMUNITY ALL SECTIONS Analysis Revisiting 'Boy Scouts of America v. Dale' and the Right to Discriminate How the Boy Scouts’ court victory to exclude gays defeated the organization and is instructive in the struggle for LGBTQ rights today. By Thomas H. Prol | November 14, 2019 at 10:00 AM Bigstock. In 1999, a decision by the Supreme Court of New Jersey read as follows: This is what I am getting on both the link just shared and the one that comes up in the original post. I can see no way to actually get the article unless some kind of registration occurs. Maybe I am missing something. Want to continue reading? Become a Free ALM Digital Reader. BENEFITS OF A DIGITAL MEMBERSHIP: Free access to 3 articles* every 30 days Access to the entire ALM network of websites Unlimited access to the ALM suite of newsletters Build custom alerts on any search topic of your choosing Search by a wide range of topics REGISTER NOW *May exclude premium content Already have an account? Sign In Now

Cannot find a way to actually read the piece. Is there another link I am missing?

Seems simple enough and really no real change if we can get past various biases. Any youth between the ages of 5 and 18 can be a scout in some manner or group, and any adult that chooses to be YP trained and follow the rules of YP and the group as a whole may be involved in mentor capacity, with or without family members. All will "do their best" to live their lives in the reflection of the basic tenets of Scouting shown by the Oath and Law. Adults will put the needs of the youth first, and youth will strive, though living the noted tenets to be the best citizens and members of society that they can, accepting the challenges and respecting others. How is that? Are we close?

I meant to suggest that they are now under the umbrella of Ventures, so that is where the new rates would be listed. Historically they are the oldest senior scout program, predating all the other various programs, such as Explorers, Air Scouts, Rovers, and so on. Thanks for clarifying it.

That is what might happen if you overcorrect to solve problems. Add to it the misunderstanding of many regarding OA and Native American cultures, and you end up with the proverbial milk-toast. I have posted before that the main issue I see is, as you put it, the gimme and no limit elections. But, it is mostly the lack of true mystique due to the fear of "secret societies"and the flack regarding regalia that seems most damaging. Pure lack of pride also often seems present to me. When we old guys were inducted, ceremonies not only had the regalia, but all of the players knew their parts without reading them. Ordeals had consequences if candidates chose to violate the restrictions. I have no answer though. Maybe I am becoming too jaded.

I did Google his name, and I got nothing that current. Of course, that just shows the Post as not using verified information. From the older posts, it would indicate he has and had issues with National decisions and stated them. That is his right. But I do not care how long he might have been in Scouting. His quote is misleading and ignores most of the facts. For me, he is simply continuing to grind his axe related to decisions about which he is and was unhappy. His comments do nothing to actually help the situation. JMO of course.

Other than being Yellow Press, what does the NYPost have against the BSA? They appear to simply look for reasons to bludgeon us. This is irresponsible and misleading, as seems to be their regular mode of writing. They use similar tactics to attack some politicians and click bait targets. They are at least somewhat partially responsible by printing overly hyped stories that infer unproven things and skew the truth, while encouraging the ambulance chasers. Just my view, but seems pretty obvious that someone there has personal issues with BSA.

No; it is an offshoot of the Venturing program.

Here is a link to info on youth sports expenses. Compare. http://money.com/money/5652496/youth-sports-cost/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaig Y memberships vary, but are from as low as $15/mo to as much as $40 or so; plus additional for many special programs especially in summer. Boys and Girls Clubs all set their own fees and I found some as low as $5 a school year all the way to $100/year. I suspect that the averages are likely in the $20ish or so per month or academic year. Other activities outside of the main building program are extra. They also have a lot of heavy hitter donors in many parts of the country, getting many of the United Way dollars that once went to Scouting before the gender wars. Scouting, even at these levels is still a bargain when compared. And if National can come through with the aid for the lesser capable, it will really be one. If I were the various sports groups and clubs like Boys and Girls, I would be watching closely the pendulum swinging from BSA towards them. Once BSA is no longer the fattest cow, they will look elsewhere for their greed.

While the idea would at one time likely been helpful, today, as someone else pointed out, would likely just draw the bullies to the scout. And we do not need more reasons for boys to shy away from the program. It is different when they are in public together or with adults, but in the school, it might be really difficult for many. Reflecting on the truth in society in this country.

While much of the "precautionary" decisions are onerous and even at times annoying, they are in direct response to the society in which we live. Safety of the youth we serve is the primary goal, but reality is that it is also, to a large extent, CYA based on patterns being seen going forward. And some of those "A's" they are covering are ours, whether we feel it is fair or not. Until we, in this society, find the courage to stand up to the skewed legal system we have bred with our "victimhood" attitude and our "it is someone else's fault" responses to many things, we will continue to have to find ways to respond, or we will simply hunker down in our personal holes and ignore the larger world and society. Not what the basic tenets of Scouting would encourage, nor most of us wish to happen.

I might ask the last time you looked at it? While the reading level is aimed at middle school for Scouts, and about 4th grade for Cubs, it has well done pieces on a number of current Scouting challenges. The cartoon section is not really what I would like, but I was spoiled in the fifties in that regard. The most recent mag has examples of various backpacks, a piece on canoeing, the regular feature on Scouts that have distinguished themselves in some manner, such as winning a sports age level competition or a major science award, a piece on owls (always has a nature piece), and the write-in column asking for advice. Also a few items from National and Hitching Rack with Pedro, as well as the Scouts in Action. When I was in the schools regularly, I would donate copies for the libraries, and the librarians and teachers said the mag was one of the most popular items in there for the students, both genders. There is also a link for the mag online that has more things, including games and hints for skills and earning Eagle. A recent link is a listing of projects submitted from various Eagles across the country, separated by type of project and so on. Still, you are correct that many of the youth do not read it. How much of that has to do with "attitude" they see or perceive and how much it has to be with the fact they simply do not read much of anything I have no idea. Frankly, it is a resource that leaders might actually encourage. It might also be an in meeting opportunity for a short segment once a month or so, like when the students in class would spend a segment of one day reading out loud from one of the school magazines that they use in some schools, like the Weekly Reader.

But even then I had over thirty years in the program. In 2002 I had been SM of my troop for 25 years and was 56 years old. Not sure I was eligible to be called a youngster. Have to find my official replacement, though the unit says I have to stay as long as I can speak and hobble. They are my family really after so many years. Being in touch on occasion with past members from 40 plus years. My second Eagle in the troop now has a daughter that has graduated college. And a number of others from 20 years or so back have teens and beginning college kids. It now has become a challenge at times if I run into one in public and they recognize me, but I cannot quite place them. As part of my historical poking I need to put my own down in a more organized matter, especially the part that relates to our troop. It will be 100 in 2021, and I already have stories and so on from many to put in an archive. So, I suppose I should do my own as well. Got the time, just having bit of trouble focussing now. Later.

Just mostly curious. I have been on this Forum almost from its beginning, joining at the same time I tried to support Scouter (?), the magazine. the profile says since 2007, so I guess that is right. Anyway, I just simply wonder how many are still on here that go back to then? There were some pretty interesting "discussions" early on. Got to admit I miss a few of those voices, and I know some left for reasons of disagreement with Scouting period, some due to personal loss of interest, and a few due to illness or having passed. One voice that always made me smile and often had very thoughtful comments was "Beaver". Another was "Bob White". Other than myself, I believe John, who seems to have the FB contact point, is still here. A couple of the various "Eagle" screen names, and Desert Rat, until recently anyway.

Instead of sewing, it could simply be self-sufficiency. It would include very basic sewing, doing laundry, generic home upkeep such as floor cleanliness to include mopping and vacuuming, and other every day or week needs for living on your own.

While the premise is laudable the danger of it becoming a political punching bag would have been considerable. On the other hand, taking the campaign to another level, and incorporating other youth is a focused and well-planned campaign might fit. As it is presented in the vague story, it would be hard-pressed to meet the project parameters. Still, we do need to encourage our current generation to take control and work towards a better world environment.

Since Scout Spirit is how the scout lives within the parameters of the tenets of Scouting, a general discussion with them regarding how they see themselves doing that would cover it. On the other hand, if the particular scout has had some issues that you feel need to have their attention and have room for improvement you might lead the discussion towards that. Most importantly, try to let the scout lead the discussion as much as possible, being sure that you understand their thoughts and responding positively or on occasion with a suggestion as to how they might do something differently or succinctly. Try to keep it positive no matter what.

The National Lodge needs tor to reevaluate the history and find a way to reinstate the mystique and actual "honor" in being a member. It has been beaten to death, but there need to be more actual limits on eligibility that make it less a "gimme". They sill have a purpose and in ur council do help, though, as noted, getting higher participation is difficult. But that has as much to do with the lesser honor issues than simply the over-scheduled lives of the scouts in general.