skeptic

Just mostly curious. I have been on this Forum almost from its beginning, joining at the same time I tried to support Scouter (?), the magazine. the profile says since 2007, so I guess that is right. Anyway, I just simply wonder how many are still on here that go back to then? There were some pretty interesting "discussions" early on. Got to admit I miss a few of those voices, and I know some left for reasons of disagreement with Scouting period, some due to personal loss of interest, and a few due to illness or having passed. One voice that always made me smile and often had very thoughtful comments was "Beaver". Another was "Bob White". Other than myself, I believe John, who seems to have the FB contact point, is still here. A couple of the various "Eagle" screen names, and Desert Rat, until recently anyway.

Instead of sewing, it could simply be self-sufficiency. It would include very basic sewing, doing laundry, generic home upkeep such as floor cleanliness to include mopping and vacuuming, and other every day or week needs for living on your own.

While the premise is laudable the danger of it becoming a political punching bag would have been considerable. On the other hand, taking the campaign to another level, and incorporating other youth is a focused and well-planned campaign might fit. As it is presented in the vague story, it would be hard-pressed to meet the project parameters. Still, we do need to encourage our current generation to take control and work towards a better world environment.

Since Scout Spirit is how the scout lives within the parameters of the tenets of Scouting, a general discussion with them regarding how they see themselves doing that would cover it. On the other hand, if the particular scout has had some issues that you feel need to have their attention and have room for improvement you might lead the discussion towards that. Most importantly, try to let the scout lead the discussion as much as possible, being sure that you understand their thoughts and responding positively or on occasion with a suggestion as to how they might do something differently or succinctly. Try to keep it positive no matter what.

The National Lodge needs tor to reevaluate the history and find a way to reinstate the mystique and actual "honor" in being a member. It has been beaten to death, but there need to be more actual limits on eligibility that make it less a "gimme". They sill have a purpose and in ur council do help, though, as noted, getting higher participation is difficult. But that has as much to do with the lesser honor issues than simply the over-scheduled lives of the scouts in general.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alvin-townley-boy-scouts-extraordinary-impact-on-america-calls-us-to-consider-risk-of-litigating-it-to-death?fbclid=IwAR3nN4WaZlmDvQ5BuxGCoSkenskcvsi8XhlmhREoVUZPAyKfXeY6sS5hLtk

And I fully agree that BSA "should" actually have a way to officially recind Eagle, and possibly other special awards like Silver Beaver and so on, should the holder prove they no longer deserve to hold the honor. Sort of goes back to the old fine print in earlier books about Trustworth: "A Scout's Honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate this honor by lying, cheating, or not doing exactly a given task, he MAY be directed to hand over his Scout Badge." In my earlier comment, I simply state my feeling that the Scouting connection should not be a major factor in the aberrant behavior of someone. Other than trying to somehow lessen the mostly positive image of Scouting, even in today's almost amoral society, it serves little purpose.

Not sure what the point is. There have always been Eagles that did not live up to the Oath and Law in later life, or sometimes even while in the program. That an Eagle would step out of the mold just proves that they are normal people, prey to the same temptations and foibles as anyone else. The difference is how few, in comparison to their peers, do go in the wrong direction. There have been numerous studies to verify that. We DO NOT win all the challenges, nor does Scouting save all its successful participants. Just look at some of the poor examples of Eagles that populate our government halls. Are some of them any better than the drug seller in the damage they are causing or have caused? Instead of pointing to the worst examples, why not instead continue to find ways to prove he is an aberration?

We have been very happy with the service and flexibility of Mickman Brothers. They have an excellent product, friendly people, and they plant trees in connection with their products. The online system is adaptable to your own design, to a point and last year they improved it so as to allow the seller to know who actually was responsible for the online sale, each of which earned the seller $8. We used another company for many years, and they too had a great product, but their case lots were far too large for our small unit's needs and they had a minimum as well.

And there we have it once again; the BSA is the deep pocket the lawyers seek. It will be interesting how the case(s) move forward with the other links already noted. There were apparently school teachers, doctors, and other youth group connections that are on the list. They were not just members of BSA, and some apparently were dealt with, but not on the level of expectation expected today. We of course are back to the changing societal perceptions and responses to moral turpitude. "The concept of "moral turpitude" might escape precise definition, but it has been described as an "act of baseness, vileness, or depravity in the private and social duties which a man owes to his fellowmen, or to society in general, contrary to the accepted and customary rule of right and duty between man and man." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude I find it interesting that there is noted some connections as well to immigration issues in this shared link. Not being a lawyer, I am not doing more than offering my opinion that it is difficult to make solid judgments about things that have evolved over decades within our society. At the same time, it is even more imperative that we do all we can to assure that YP is kept up to date and at the forefront of our interactions within the program. At the same time, we could hope that somehow the legal stage will bring to fore the reality that the issue is/was not just the BSA, and that today BSA is a leader in trying to avoid these kinds of problems. At the same time, we can never absolutely stop perpetrators that are out there, only put the YP barriers up with all our abilities.

This is the old one through NESA

I like the attempt to prioritize the award knots, and especially the point of choosing the highest nominated award, e.g. Silver Beaver, over Award of Merit. Few of us would need to go farther, though perhaps local recognition might take precedence, depending on the normal uniform use. What I call my formal uniform would take that into consideration, so if I have to eliminate one, the Award of Merit would be likely, followed by the Training award since I have the Key; the real reason for both is the training covers Scouter and Commissioner with the devices. I personally feel the youth religious knot has a high priority and takes precedence over the adult if necessary. Few of us really have to deal with more than 10-12 anyway. Right now I am trying to decide how to handle having been nominated for the updated Scoutmaster award and since the earlier one has a different knot, which should I wear; probably the more current one, retiring the original to the memory book. On the other hand, it can be fun to listen to someone try to determine the knots; most have never seen the original NESA SM award knot. Ultimately, I doubt I will go beyond four rows, and may only have that on the formal shirt. I do still on occasion wear the medals for COH or on Scout Sunday, the religious ones. Once, at the prodding of my scout leadership group, put all the actual medals on for a COH after I had gotten on them for not having their awards on uniforms. But, the clanking and fact they sort of get in the way much of the time makes that a rare exception. We also have some challenges with hanging medals for NRA and Trails on occasion. Ultimately, common sense and rational thought will win out.

Working on our council history, looking through old photos from the twenties and thirties, you can tell that many scouts were swimming nude, though the old photos are so small that you have to look closely. None of the ones in the archives appear to show anything scandalous. But, we have an enlarged, posed photo in our own troop record that was shot in the Southern Sierra in the forties with a goup of senior scouts, staff from the local camp that had finished the summer, on rocks by a lake sans clothing. Again, it is well posed and composed to not show anything too scandalous unless basic skin is so considered. I learned to swim at the Y in Alhambra, CA in the fifties, and they still had a clothing optional swim period for males and for females. When my brother and I went on family night with our dad, we always changed in the men's locker and took showers with all ages. Of course, in high school, showers were group with multiple shower heads, and you were required to use them after PE. It was not an optional program. That went for the girls too. We live in a different world, and I wonder sometimes if much of our current issues may actually stem from this return to prudery of sorts and scandalizing the reality to where it becomes somehow wrong, even as we allow the porn industry and advertisers to push boundaries. Still, I have no issue with the barriers of YP. It is way overdue, not simply in Scouting, but in the society at large. At the same time, how much of our convoluted responses to the human body actually push us towards problems?

While some kind of misunderstanding happened, I am suspicious of the story's direction. I suspect that legal threat was not necessary, but it plays into the larger "anti-Christian" persecution storyline. Surely the decision at the base was a poor misinterpretation or possibly a personal decision without proper vetting. JMO of course.

The lawyers are simply greedy, but there are a few out there that for some reason work at bringing bad image publicity to BSA. Why, other than they can, I do not know.

And you are absolutely right. But the ambulance chasers and hate the Scouts people will never give any credit. They do not care that BSA has a far better track record than probably any other youth-serving group, and likely better than schools as well.

Sour grapes never make good wine.

There are parameters that are consistent, from what I have read over the years. It is not intended to be an easily achieved award, and even getting a bronze is a very high honor. Your son is to be commended for the award he has been afforded, and he can still do additional efforts towards a higher level of achievement. Be proud, and be happy that he is still in a very small group of scouts over the years.

Why would anyone have an issue with this? It was restricted due to a number of issues, both related to habitat and more importantly physical concerns. Since that time, the physical requirements have been modified for participants and they have done major restorative and replacement trail work on the area of the tooth and its main route. It, being one of the symbols of the ranch, and a visible challenge, I see no problem as long as they have put needed qualifications into place and do not stress the land around it beyond normal recovery. Granted, I personally climbed the tooth from PTC twice, as well as a couple of other trails that were easily accommodating. I also trekked across it in 1979 returning to the ranch at the end of a ten-day hike. If all goes well, I will be there in June, but I will not try the hike, even if they were to allow it, as I am no longer physically qualified, and I realize that. Like anything, we need to take personal responsibility for what we attempt physically, and I am too old and have had serious issues. But, I am glad others may again have the opportunity, as it is part of the PTC/Ranch experience and the view is spectacular.

Years ago now I subscribed to the actual Scouter Magazine connected to the Forum. Look what I found hidden in a box.

Are we speaking of the COR or the CC? COR's are the link between the charter organization and the unit and would normally not be overly involved in much of what you note? You should be able to get the things you need, but that is not saying you will if she is stubborn or something. Good luck, either way.

When scanning some of the historical graphs and data I noted that a number of badges show an almost immediate precipitous drop as soon as they were dropped from Eagle requirements or options. That includes the conservation badges that were options in the fifties from "group" choices. You needed at least one. I had two, but that was more to do with thinking I would work on the Hornaday award, but then we moved and I started high school and while staying in, kind of got dragged in other directions, including working. Until the late forties, early fifties (have to check the dates for changes) Bird Study was an Eagle badge. It then was replaced by Nature, and now Environmental Science or Sustainability. Swimming and Life Saving were for a long time pretty much non-optional as well. Safety held on for a long while, longer than Public Health, Firemanship, and Citizenship in the Home. Of course, it is obvious what happened to the farm-related badges; people left the farms. Similarly, some of the trade type badges were more common due to the need to simply know some of those skills. Today, most people will pay to have stuff done and do not care to learn to do it themselves. Home repairs was very common when I was a scout, but today, you almost need to twist their arms. Not sure what happened to the mainstay "gimme", Fingerprinting. Again, many of the more school related badges were popular until the late sixties, early seventies, as you often could arrange to have your teacher be the counselor. In the fifties, most credentialed teachers were accepted almost without question as counselors. As such, Reading and Scholarship were far more common, though reading was simply more of a youthful pastime then, as many of the detractions today did not exist. Thinking back a little, I think in some respects the needed merit badge system of the late forties and through the fifties, with the "groups" challenged more widespread sampling of what was offered. Every Eagle needed to have at least two or three badges they likely would not have considered other than needing one from that group. I wonder how much that was determined by the similar wider range of "general" subjects for college graduation. Today, the very basic college curriclum seems thin on classes that simply broaden your general knowledge. Change is always happening, and we very likely may see another major one once the Scouts BSA moves into full gear. Females may have interests in some subjects that prior to this were not broadly considered. Time will tell. Meanwhile, we just keep trying to focus on the basics and the end result of better youth and citizens.

While backpacking for me is pretty much no longer likely, unless I have a lot of time and it is very short, it is because of age and health. But, I wonder how much of an effect the fire issues have had on it, especially in the West. Half of our local trails have been off limits for most of the past five+ years, or only available for a few weeks if we are lucky. Even drive-in sites have been restricted. Add the increased cost factors, as most sites that we could go to that were free, or really inexpensive, are now being "run" by vendors, and the cost is often restrictive, as well as the number that can use it. Then add in charges for extra vehicles, and it is even worse. It will be interesting to see if locally this spring and summer we have more units out, assuming the rain damage does not perpetuate the fire danger issues with a new face. I do know that there are a number of trails reported basically gone or so badly damaged that they are not going to be viable. We do have some option if we can arrange to actually go in on some of these and work with the FS to repair them. But, often the work is limited to the older, more experienced scouts and scouters. I wonder if similr issues apply in other areas of the wilder country.

Since I have not seen any indication in a while that Terry Howerton is actually still involved with this forum, I am simply curious as to if he is. I tried making a direct contact through another lite/email related to entrepreneurship, but the mail was bounced. Thanks for any update.

Once again I wonder if we may soon see an in depth biography of William "Greenbar Bill" Hillcourt? Now that it appears that whatever prejudices might have taken his importance off the front page of National, it would seem time.