skeptic

Well here is an absurdity on its own. Are there ANY verifiable indications that anybody "can control the sexual identity of someone?" I do not think you are likely to find any such believable or provable method. Just saying. Of course, this whole thing is beyond the pale anyway, as the fact is, that there is no absolute way to keep warped personalities out of the program, no matter how many barriers are put in place. And the fact that the percentage of vases, compared to overall membership numbers, is lower than all, or almost all other similar groups makes the situation even more bazaar. I continue to wonder how taking societal issues from another era into the current one and rendering judgement is in any way rational or justified. I have to ask how many of the claimants were offered various options at the time, but officials outside of Scouting, or the families themselves chose to not pursue it, and let the perpetrator go, or basically "ran them out of town". A few may have ended up mysteriously disappearing or being found in a ditch too. But, how justify now penalizing the BSA for who knows how many societal judgement errors, or perceived errors today? I realize I am likely being too rational for the everything is either black or white judges. Again, this would not even be happening in almost any other country in the world.

Take a look at this most recent posting from FB in the Chumash District of VCC. The co-founder of the troop like to say, "Get 'em out there". And they do, and share it with others if they ask, with proper training. This troop is three years old, started with two groups of Web's and some dedicated parents, two of them Eagles. The youth, as cubs were already doing small scale trail work. Now, they are working with serious stuff, and the FS loves them, as should the public. But they do not look for kudos, they just serve; they "Get 'em out there!" https://www.facebook.com/groups/573954530008979/?multi_permalinks=

To the ambulance chasers: At some point the turnip patches will go fallow.

I am a natural skeptic, and I take only about 10 percent of what I see on these pages as something to more than peruse. Having been on this board longer than most, I watched the drama between a number of posters that became sometimes almost abusive, and often hard to fathom or believe. The tendency of too many of us, and I am sure I have so exhibited at times, is to become bull headed and not willing to "listen" and "consider". This in turn leads to stalemates and often jaded attitudes and eventually to lack of involvement. But it also often becomes a crusade by the few, the ones that are like the proverbial dog with its bone. I cannot help but fear we have a few posters on here that may be foxes in the henhouse, pushing snippets of rumor and negative issues from the drawn out legal issues. Some seem almost to be virtually laughing and smiling at the worst of the possible outcomes. As I keep trying to stay focussed on local program, I hope that the more rational and silent supporters may somehow find a voice.

I find myself wondering where are all the "champions" or "connected" supporters of Scouting at this point? Those people that call on BSA to be on hand for public events; those people that reach out to BSA for service and that benefit from all the Eagle and other projects? Where are the loud braggart pols that line their public image with their support of Scouting or even that they were or are Scouters or Eagles? Where are the legal experts that should be able to combat the overreach of the lawyers that only want to grow rich off the mistakes of a group that has given so much to our society in the past century and a little? When are the voices of reason that can shed some balanced and fair justice going to appear? Can those youth deprived of a fine program, one that has contributed far more to society than most, sue the lawyers that drag their knuckles through the mud while leaning out of their ambulances? It would be different if BSA had denied making mistakes or had simply said too bad. But all, or most of us on here, and on other scout panels know how much more BSA has done to try to combat the sleazy people that work to prey on others, especially youth groups. I understand that our legal system is very much responsible for this type of illogical and overly zealous legal attack. Still, why do we not fix it, making it back into the actual scale of justice that is intended, rather than a bludgeon of destruction and a money grab? We can only hope that somehow, we in the trenches can survive, and that we elder Scouters will have passed enough to our younger followers to somehow keep the compass needle on target.

Looking past the very murky comments by some here, I cannot comprehend the idea of removing Character Building from the program. Of course, the lawyers and some of their litigants missed that boat a long time ago, or we would not be in this position now. Of course, in almost any other country that is part of the World Organization, this would not be able to be happening, as they have more rational legal systems that do not allow this kin of BS. Lets face it, we live in a society that has far too many people that have learned to play the blame game, and a legal system that exacerbates it. As someone already has stated, what about all the other far worse youth serving groups who have done far less to mitigate these issues? Sadder yet is that even after these slimeballs have managed to gut a program that is overall far more positive than many for youth development, the people that are never going to actually be held accountable, the actual perpetrators, are still going to be out there. This disaster will do nothing to get rid of these people.

WHAT THE HECK? WHY IS THIS ON HERE? PLEASE REMOVE IT.

Perusing the JOTI special Jambo info I found this. There seems to be some very clear explanations regarding certain elements of youth protection in it. I am not suggesting it is better or worse than BSA guidelines, just that it appears to address issues, in verbal form anyway, in a substantial way. Just as in YP, it is only as good as the willingness of someone to adhere to the intent. Here is a link to the event noted: https://www.jotajoti.info/joti-special-edition https://www.scout.org/sites/default/files/library_files/Code%20of%20Conduct%20of%20WOSM.pdf

Not seeing any ads, so not sure to what others refer. I do keep ad blockers on my computer though.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2020/03/16/how-to-conduct-a-board-of-review-through-videoconferencing/?fbclid=IwAR0GCH57DrgBZcGvlb9dGk089hrEM2_Ac6TH47Z4HV8PrgVfOuY0E4qFF80

I just followed the link from Schiff, but it may have taken me somewhere not on subject completely. There were a full compliment of the golden patches; the hardest to find are Schiff and Philmont, and the most common is the one in the OP query. Have to go look at the historical stuff, but think there was also a SOR version. In one of my books I have the complote set. At the 75th, they put out a very large assortment of similar patches for many different events. I believe I finally tracked all of them down and also have them in my "stuff'. Have a bag of Centennial items that are just that, a bag. But still lots of items. I have the 50th, 75th, and 110th all represented on my one official shirt; the 50th Jambo is on the right pocket, the diamond jambo is a name tag as an ASM, and the centennial is in the proper place above the pocket, a staff. My choice to brag just a bit that I attended all three of those jambos. Probably get a ticket from the UP, but really do not care.

I have a copy of that in my stuff. Keep saying I am going to find someone to play all the various records and save them to modern files for easy use. Have a number of them. Similarly with my 15+ pieces of sheet music. Get someone to play them and record. I have only heard about 4 or 5 of them. I have heard the Ives record. It is typical Byrl.

Good thoughts, and certainly of import. The larger question is how do we "actually" screen our applicants? Other than hearsay from friends and acquaintances, how do we make an educated and rational decision to even go to the actual registration point, and how do we do a "non" official interaction? None of the safeguards are foolproof, no matter how much we try to make them so. The worst actors are often also the most tenacious and scheming. I know we generally discuss unexpected individuals coming forward with no direct apparent connection to the unit or its members. But, since we encourage Eagles, for example, to come back to Scouting as their lives allow, often after college and so on, we can not out of hand say someone is suspicious simply because they are not attached to a family/group member. When I first got involved I was on base in the service. Later, I was simply looking to get reinvolved in a program I feel and felt had merit. The first two times I attempted that later adult involvement, the local council ignored me, for what ever reason. When the Great Western, at the time, responded immediately, I was hooked for life. It is common sense and balance. Unfamiliar individuals likely need to be kept at arms length until proper checks and observation can occur. On occasion, we may have someone that is fine, but does not have the interaction skills we may need. They may have another way to be involved though. We need the skill levels of many, and we should NOT drive away someone for no reason, other than "they have no kids involved" concerns. After all, most of the camp staffs are made up of young people with "no kids" and who are just trying to stay involved.

Somehow I ended up with far more here than intended, and I am unable to figure out how to fix it, as the edit feature is not obvious to me, if it is there. The only part I was trying to feature was the Screening discussion, not the other material. If someone can fix that, I would appreciate it. Or, it can just go dormant on its own I guess. Thanks.

Our CO has put all the state precautions into effect. That includes trying to keep a small distance, six feet, between individuals that ARE meeting. All group gathering are postponed, including our weekly church services. Much is precautionary, but in the case of our church, half or more of the congregation is in the higher risk categories. And many groups that use the facility are already higher risk individuals such as the Anonymous groups. So here we sit.

Before I sign the actual application I do review it for being complete. As part of that I read the "reflection", partly as consistent with my final conference before the board. Personally, I on occasion suggest a rewrite so that it is a bit clearer and to perhaps proofed for major grammar or spelling issues. If they choose to not, that is their option. But, as I explain, this reflects on them as well, and so they should attempt to do it well. Just my approach. The main thing is that it is "their" thoughts.

My question would be what is the badge, and why the change. Is it important in order to better understand and learn? If so, then how hard is it to just begin anew. On the other hand, if the badge is generic and the change is insignificant, you might push the rule of starting before the change. Is it worth the discussion or possible friction? Weigh it and decide the best approach, but I would hope it will not become a point of contention. Good luck.

Can you expand on this, maybe even have a photo of the award? Hiking on a ship? Did they have their fit-bits?

Neckers are not required at all, if I understand. It is an option. Many units have a formal and field (dare I use that term) necker, the formal one for COH and such, and the informal basic and larger for actual use int the outdoors and so on. Related to this thread; who remembers the old BL column that encouraged making slides? Years ago, I think it was at the 85 jambo, I saw a Scouter with a full collection of all the BL slides, most that he made himself. Coo. My favorites are one from the 1960 jambo with the patriotic scene, and the first non-official slide I got, a white fdl with a red rose, for attending the 1955 Rosebowl Scout circus. I need to gather all the mass of miscellany and make a display.

It would seem to me that this info from the BSA information service, would be blasted front and center and very boldly. Maybe I just missed it. More... Wednesday, 01 May 2019 18:15 How This District Showcased What Scouting Is All About to These All-Girl Troops Story contributed by Laura Clay, district director, Catuenga, of the Western Los Angeles County Council As our council’s family Scouting staff advisor, I was working with an organizer for all-girl troop, Troop 642 in Calabasas, CA during August and September when they expressed a desire to reserve Camp Josepho for their troop to do camporee prep. After some discussion with staff in our camping department, as well as other girl troop organizers during our “Scouts BSA Boot Camp” in October, we decided to move forward with a “Trail to First Class” event with the goal of offering an opportunity for girls to easily get a taste of what Scouting is like, as well as connecting all of the brand new troops to one another. The “Trail to First Class” Event Once word got out, the Scouting community came together to create an amazing event. We recruited young female staffers from our camps to lead stations and many adults from the new troops stepped up as well. We also spread the word to surrounding councils, as there are several in the Los Angeles area and we could clearly see the desire was there for an event encompassing all the new troops of young women. At the event, we offered eight stations: swimming, fire-building, knife, ax & saw, first aid, rifles, knots, and nature. Almost all of the staffing was female, as one of our goals was for the girls to see other female role models already in Scouting. During campfire, our council commissioner, Jessica Pazdernik, spoke about what Scouting meant to her, how she was proud of her daughter now being invited to join, and how the girls can step up to be leaders in their community by supporting each other. We also had guest speaker Sherri Zhu from a company that sends youth from China to our Scout camps talk about the international Scouting movement. The mood was electric, with 100+ new Scouts from 20 troops across 7 councils – Orange County, GLAAC, WLACC, Venture County, Verdugo Hills, Los Padres, and California Inland Empire – and lots of excitement from the girls, their leaders, staff, and everyone who came out to visit. “I was feeling burnt out as a volunteer, but this event and the invitation of girls into Scouting has re-energized me completely,” shared Howard Schwartz of Troop 642. The girls left not only with several requirements towards the first few ranks, but they also gained lasting friendships as well! I’ve seen many girls tagging each other on social media about the event and in news coverage for girls’ troops since then! To see more photos from the event, check out their Flickr album. Councils are encouraged to orchestrate similar events in their communities to continue building the momentum of welcoming girls into Scouting. Scouting Wire would like to thank Laura Clay for contributing this story. Published in Scouting.org News Read more... Sunday, 28 April 2019 19:31 George Villalobos Selected as Scout Executive of Ventura County Council Please help us congratulate George Villalobos, who will serve as Scout executive of the Ventura County Council in Camarillo, California effective June 1, 2019. George began his Scouting career as a district executive at the Los Angeles Area Council in Los Angeles, California. During his tenure with the council, now known as the Greater Los Angeles Area Council, he successfully served as director of all markets, director of development, director of field service, and for the last three years as deputy Scout executive. George enjoys outdoor activities including golf, hiking, and camping. Most of all, he enjoys time spent with family, reading, and being active in the community. George and his wife, Lorraine, have two Eagle Scout sons, George and David. They also have a daughter, Rachel, who claims she would have been an Eagle Scout as well. In the comments below, please join us in congratulating George as he joins in partnership with the volunteers and staff of the Ventura County Council to deliver quality Scouting experiences to the young people of the communities they serve. Published in Scouting.org News Read more... Wednesday, 24 April 2019 00:19 BSA’s Call to Establish a Nationwide Volunteer Screening Database You may have heard media coverage discussing the Boy Scouts of America’s Volunteer Screening Database and our organization’s Youth Protection efforts. The safety of children in our Scouting programs is our top priority. As an organization, we have an important duty and an incredible opportunity to focus on keeping children safe, supported, and protected. Our Volunteer Screening Database, previously known as “Ineligible Volunteer Files,” is at the forefront of youth protection procedures. While it has often been misunderstood and criticized, time and time again it has successfully prevented potential predators from re-joining our organization and gaining access to youth – which is precisely why we have been maintaining these records since the 1920s. The database system is one of the approaches most often recommended by experts, including the Centers for Disease Control, to keep kids safe and is a collection of information on individuals who, due to past inappropriate behavior or suspicion of inappropriate behavior, are prohibited from participating in BSA programs. How the Volunteer Screening Database (VSD) works: Individuals are added to the Volunteer Screening Database based on violations of our policies, or suspected violations of our policies. They don’t need to have been convicted to be added to the VSD. We have a very low threshold for removing someone from our scouting programs. Again – this is because our priority is to protect kids, first and foremost, above all else. We believe victims and routinely remove individuals based on only allegations of inappropriate behavior. When an individual is added to the VSD, they are removed entirely from any Scouting program. They are also prohibited from re-joining anywhere. Every instance of suspected abuse is reported to law enforcement. Once the individual has been removed from Scouting and has been reported to law enforcement, the BSA has no other avenue for further investigation or public disclosure. Our goals for protecting children go beyond our organization– we seek to be part of the solution both in and out of Scouting. The BSA fully supports and advocates for the creation of a national registry overseen by a governmental entity, similar to the national sex offender registry, of those who are suspected of child abuse or inappropriate behavior with a child, and thus allowing all youth serving organizations to share and access such information. We have advocated to Congress for enhanced youth protection policies, initiatives, and efforts. Specifically, BSA has recommended to Congress the following programs and ideas that independent experts agree will keep children safe, including: Establishing and funding a system where volunteers can register/be cleared through a common screening process for all states and organizations, with an affordable process for conducting background checks and periodically renewing the clearance to reduce the risk that potential abusers can gain access to children by moving across state lines or to other youth serving organizations; Enabling youth-serving organizations to share information about individuals who have been removed from their programs for alleged inappropriate conduct – even if the individuals have not been arrested or convicted – to keep potential abusers out of these organizations; Strengthening mandatory reporting laws; and, Requiring that sex abuse offenders serve full sentences. We are optimistic about these efforts because we know that they will make a difference – we have seen firsthand the impact they’ve had on our own organization’s steps to protect children. For more information on BSA’s Youth Protection efforts, please visit Scouting.org/YouthProtection. Published in Scouting.org News

This is a fine example of how we are missing the boat today. The focus here is on what the Scouts did and are doing to help the country. The article of course does not come from BSA directly, though you can see the West touch I think. Point is that there is no reason why BSA should not be finding similar ways to loudly toot our horn, or blare it even with all the positive that SO outweighs the negative that the media focus on. In truth, while we are mostly concerned with BSA image, the larger dearth of positive news, which actually predominates if you actually look, is an opportunity.

One of my biggest beliefs is that BSA has the opportunity to be in the real forefront of the environmental surge. We should be doing all we can to encourage varieties of clean energy, solar and wind particularly, and water in a few areas. We should be demonstrating in all the camps conservation methods to best use the various habitats and geographical elements. We should be putting the Stem stuff in, and modifying it with new technology, even as we encourage hands on nature study with the new resources, and where able, throwbacks to older methods such as pressing and field observations. But a nature hike today should include possibly taking photos with phones and then developing ids through online resources and actual physical guides. Camps should have small solar lights for safety and easy location of kybos at night. ATT, since we had that guy that led them as National President, might use camps to put in cell towers on tall buildings such as climbing walls, or even trees. We should become the new green wave with composting and maybe even solar toilets in the camps. Raise worms; raise Christmas trees where possible; find beekeepers to put hives on the sites; build bird and bat houses and distribute them around the camps. Push any and all conservation techniques and teach the youth about them while making the camps a little more self-sustaining. I suspect that a few camps could even become local vegetable growers. Bring the best challenges from the first decades, ones that make sense still, and find ways to incorporate them with new technologies and cooperative efforts with colleges and environmental groups. Focus on that thing called service and being prepared, but make it fit the 21st century when we can, but still teach the best from the past.

With the large changes in liability buffers and YP, how do we realistically allow a valid opportunity for the PL or SPL to lead in an outdoor environment? Since two deep adult leadership is needed, according to current standards, how do you allow them to hike while being in charge, but still fulfill the YP rules? Would having the adults hike in the back within reach, but not actually in sight allow this? We all know that youth will mostly turn to the visible or within shouting adult when they have fears or concerns with their youth leaders. Is this a skill we need to teach and learn in modern adult training? Follow Me Boys has a number of "no adult" scenarios, things that were the norm then. Most of us with more than 50 years likely have our own stories. That was part of the process of learning, and should still be with proper options for safety. Youth leader (only) in direct contact with the adults in the rear with phone or walkie? Runner option if something happens? How to do it with as much distance as possible is the big conundrum.

After receiving a "suspicious" email this morning that I treated as spam initially, I followed up on what I gleaned from the backdoor review. If you get an email from "Omni Agents Solutions", it is legitimate. Here are the various links that National has provided for info to the public and Scouters. www.omniagentsolutions.com/bsa www.OfficialBSAclaims.com www.BSArestructuring.org Fastest way: restructuring@scouting.org. I spoke with both National and with the Omni office this morning. So, it is up to you what you choose to do with this info. Just putting it out there.

So, let us change this to a merit badge counselor. We tell the scouts they visit the counselor in pairs or more, or they take a parent or sibling with them if at the counselor's home. That has been the norm, as I understand it. What I see happening in these responses is that we are suggesting that two deep MUST always be two actual registered adults. First, the MB visit is a scouting activity, but it is independent if it is done as most would agree, in a manner that helps the scout learn to deal with this kind of interaction with adults. If we then say that there has to be a second registered adult there, not just a parent, sibling, or other scout, then we change the paradigm completely. I think the term common sense needs to be reinserted. Follow the rules: No one on one out of hearing or sight of other people. Parents, even if not actually registered, should meet the two adult rule for group gatherings. Other youth meet the standard of no one on one, adult and youth, as long as other adults are around. Again, the absolute thing is no one on one, out of site and hearing of others. A conference can be done in a corner with others nearby and within view. In most cases, the conference would likely be less honest if it could not be between the scout and the leader. We also need to be sure that the youth understand the need for a "distant privacy" on occasion. They may not want other youth or adults to hear their discussion in a conference, whether a rank conference, or a corrective one. We need to not over-react, nor under think.