skeptic

"LCs have billions." Not sure on what you are basing this. Our council is in the red, for all intents and purposes, and the value of the camp property is certainly not in that high value country, nor the falling down office which is a historical house that needs huge repairs. I believe many councils are in similar positions, so other than the properties, which in many case were gifted in the teen, twenties, and thirties or even later, they have few resources. The original "gifters" certainly did not give that property to be sold to pay off greedy lawyers, but for the scouts and the program. Of course, another era as we know. An era where few would have thought this kind of thing might occur, or they may have not given, or made sure it was protected for its original intent.

Thanks; putting this in my file.

It is good that someone here sees the verity in my concern regarding suggestions by legal people that "nothing" has really been done and the intimation that it is getting worse. Now, if the courts might actually review the totality of the "facts", in this case YP and stats in the past two decades. I just hope someone in the legal team for National is paying attention. Better, maybe a few of the silent supporters that know this is slanted, actually might step in to balance the scale a little.

I find it interesting that there has not been even one comment yet, until me I guess, abut the inaccuracy of the statements about YP has not done anything. What am I missing. Most of these claims that they speak of are well before the YP was developed, and since it has improved, from all that I have read. Reality is that no amount of YP is going to stop abuse, sexual or other kinds. There are warped people that will find a way, especially if they really want to. On the other hand, IF YP is being administered and reviewed, they are far more likely to look somewhere other than BSA. And, even before the YP was developed, percentage wise, it seems Scouting was not the top of the list for known predators; and to day it is at or near the bottom. And no amount of money is going to "fix" bad judgment or erase bad players from the past somehow. What IS important is that the current youth are better protected. Again, though, most abuse still happens in families and in smaller youth connected groups. Again, kill off BSA, or weaken it to the point of no longer a target, and only youth and the communities will suffer. Communities will lose much of the service BSA has showered on them for decades. The tenets of Scouting will no longer graduate youth with real community care and awareness of their responsibilities as citizens. Meanwhile a few lawyers will count their pennies with smirks, and modern predators will simply find other victims with less visibility perhaps. Lose, Lose. In the meantime, I will continue to do what little I can on the local level, and encourage youth to live Scout Spirit in their daily lives.

Do not think it was arrogance as much as simply not completely understanding. It was, as we keep coming back to, a different era, and the public responses to those things were very different, and families often chose to deal on their own while authorities were too willing to believe the "known good guy". Just as society still does, though it is getting better, people tended to make the victim even a bigger victim with the approaches common then. Yet, they still have issues with female abuse, including spousal, being somehow the fault of the woman. Do not forget, in the case of the IV files, nobody else even did that, and while it did not solve the issue, it can be shown to have at times stopped some of the predators. Sadly, we really cannot know the depth of the issue due to the time span. YP is in place and that is our responsibility, to adhere to it with NO excuses, no matter how much we may feel there is a misconception or something.

I could see the newest, one dose version, being offered to kids due to its slightly lower efficacy, and that younger people are less in danger as a group. As far as the membership goes, if we can at least stabilize by year end we will be ahead going forward.

The article does not mention that Steve was an Eagle, only a Scout. Minor issue, but sort of important I guess. Interestingly, we have one of Steve's HS classmates and Eagle Scout living in our District. Dale Syness became an Eagle in 29 Palms, California but moved to Garden Grove at the end of his freshman year in HS. He was my SPL in the troop in 29 Palms that I joined when I moved there in 1958, and we were freshmen together. He was the prod that pushed me to not drop out after the move and disorientation of going to the desert from the San Gabriel Valley. I wa Life, so his nudge was what I needed, and I guess he did a good job, as I am typing on this Forum. Dale is now semi-retired, teaching a bit in the JC and still working PT at the Navy Base. He is also a member of my troop committee, having had his stepson in the troop for a while. The scouting family is huge, yet surprisingly compact at times. At age 13, Fossett earned the Boy Scouts' highest rank of Eagle Scout. He was a Vigil Honor member of the Order of the Arrow, the Boy Scouts' honor society, where he served as lodge chief. He also worked as a Ranger at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico during the summer of 1961.

Well done. It was good to see some prominent older adults congratulating them. Now that the "initial class" is recognized, hopefully we can settle into a bit more normal formats, recognizing them as they come, male or female. Personally I still hope that we can reach the position of not segregating them within units, but just have troops of youth intereted in Scouting. It has worked in Cubs, so I do not see a true reason to not have similar patrol based units of coed youth. As long as YP is followed there really should be little reason to not do it, and it would allow even more young women the opportunity when there are no female units available. It also could help rejuvenate the smaller units that struggle to stay alive in some communities. While understanding the concerns about the maturity levels at the prime Scout ages, my observations have been in teaching that the girls draw out the boys often by their presence and challenges. Groups in classes, even if taken over by girls in some manner, saw more boy participation, and at times reserved ones coming forward. From my perspective, we do not give the boys enough credit for accepting the challenge in Scouting if confronted with girls stepping forward. It certainly has been of little issue in the senior programs over the years, even when they first went coed. Anyway, it is great to see this step forward to more cohesive youth growth, and joining the larger world Scouting family more completely.

Over the years, back to when it was not online, I updated info a half dozen times and finally it was correct in the last directory that was printed. But now I cannot find myself as far as Eagles go, though they show NESA Life under my name. But, I want to search for possible Eagles in my current city that may be in the background, as I can use help. Secondly, I also am trying to find more info on my home town and its Eagles over time, but little shows up, and what does is not really historical, as it does not go back. My old council was absorbed long ago and is part of Inland Empire now, but we used to be able to get accurate info on the actual council before merges. Will look again in a few weeks I guess and see if more work has happened. The search filters are not clear, nor do they seem to allow the older info.

I am reminded reading this about the reason many of the early "Scout pulp fiction" was mostly NOT recognized or recommended by BSA. Many of the stories were so outlandish to be just dumb, but a few might have encouraged young people to try dangerous things, or to get involved in unsavory habits.

While we all have had our moments of "concern" about paper Eagles, and units that are the mills, we need to just concentrate on our own programs and try to assure the youth get the benefits, whether Eagle or only Tenderfoot. Our goal has always been to try and keep the youth in the troop long enough to expose them to the best of the program if possible. We have had a number of them stay with us all through HS and never get beyond First Class or Star. Yet, they have fond memories and spent quality time in the outdoors. Our struggle today, as we are edging towards the end of our centennial year, in December, is to simply get back on track and work the program. Our history is important, but the basic tenets are what it is about, never just getting Eagle. And we still only have 58 Eagles on our honor board. But a high percentage of the youth stayed to maturity, and many have done well for themselves and their families. Few have gotten into difficulties. My experience over the 60 tears or so is that the youth know most of the time who the "real" achievers are; and it is on occasion a challenge to explain to them the premise of honor and doing their best in those circumstances. On the other side, I have seen a couple of the really questionable Eagles grow into it, which is amazing to watch.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2021/02/15/meet-harry-cooper-of-missouri-who-is-believed-to-be-the-first-black-eagle-scout/

I embarrassed myself there once while stationed at Chanute in the early sixties. I visited the college campus and spent twenty minutes convincing myself that a young woman I saw was someone I knew, but could not remember her name. Finally, I sucked it up and asked her, and I got told off in no uncertain terms. She informed me she had no idea who I might be and she was tired of the AF guys coming to the campus and bugging the coeds. Thing is, I was never one to hit on people, as I was very introverted, especially back then. Funny looking back. At least she did not scream🙃.

It will be interesting to see how the court responds to the apparent "issues" with the claimants and their lawyers. To me, a biased layman, it seems obvious that there is a great deal of pile on, so to speak, much with little or no validity. Logic, or at least to me, says that if you were traumatized in some manner to the level of "now" choosing to bring it to the fore, then you should also remember the basic details of when, who, and so on. IF they can be shown to have already had some form of restitution already, then it should not be able to be reexhibited. I personally find the indications of fraud and misleading action by some of the lawyers involved to be abhorrent and grounds for disbarment if I understand the supposed legal guidance on being a lawyer. No matter what, the ball is in our court to find local ways to overcome the frenzy of media hype and simply show the positive parts of scouting and its presence in the community.

Wow. This cannot be good for the "clients", and it certainly appears to show major issues at least, and very possibly actual legal malpractice. Not being a lawyer, I can only go by the info shared. Thanks for the detail.

Makes sense. Certain irony in that BP pushed for "Peace Scouts" before WWII. The misdirection of his discussions regarding youth programs in Germany and other soon to be Axis countries focused on that idea. He put distance between Scouting and them as the realities became apparent. Of course some cannot ever see the whole picture.

This is part of the societal problem. Most of the incidents were rectified and it has been a year or more for most of it. Media and simply agitators keep it going with outlandish comments and misinformation. Too bad some of the players cannot grow up, nor live by the basics of Scouting, both Girl and Boy.

Beavers are hard workers that expand the natural environment in positive ways in our watersheds. They are also stocky and plump like most longer term Scouters.☺️

No issue with first name with adults, and I feel if an honorific is applicable, it is a good idea, but Mr. etc is okay. I do ask my leaders to introduce me to youth as Mr., as I just feel it is the proper method, as I was raised. I had one scout that no matter what, wanted to use my first name for some reason, but ironically he always introduced me as Mr. Like many old guy here, past scouts, some now in their 50's still address me as Mr.

Sorry, but the article is misleading, and injects a great deal of suggestion of "possible" things that are drawn from the book On My Honor that was published decades ago now. Also, it tries to suggest that this was a widely occurring thing throughout the program, when numerous investigations have show it was not, and also overlooks admission of error and poor judgement by BSA to start with and efforts to counsel victims that have been discovered. We also have the huge change in the YP training since this all actually occurred, none of which is noted. We come back to the same issue, over and over again. BSA admits making errors and has worked to put barriers in that were not there. They "have" paid money out and also counseled and have an open offer to continue to do so. Compared to most other youth groups, they are an open book and have a far lower occurrence of documented cases, and many of those are connected to perpetrators that are also traced to other groups. Our society tends to ignore the realities of human nature and somehow expect BSA and others to somehow absolutely stop very devious and warped perpetrators. That is not possible, thus the need to assure YP barriers are always in place and that as accurate investigation as possible is made when these things are reported in order to assure as much as possible that the event(s) are accurate and not attempts to embarass or hurt someone that they do not like or that disciplined them in some way. It is the total hyper sensationalism that is the real problem, and just like reality TV, for some reason, much of the public eats it up, even to the levels we are seeing in the national political scene. Just my opinion, but I have never forgotten a time when I was subbing in a middle school class with an odd table configuration that put some students away from easy access. A girl, I think 8th grader, asked a question on a math assignment and I had to lean across the girl next to her to point at something for clarity. My sleeve touched the head of the girl nearest the aisle, and she started saying that I was touching her. Fortunately, the girl being helped told her to stop it and shut up. But I have never forgotten that, obviously. It made me paranoid to an extent and very defensive, assuring I was "never" alone with students and telling them to stay out of the classrooms at lunch or something, and also immediately standing outside in full view if they came in anyway. It is really sad that we have reached this point in society where normal human activity is made to be suspect by some. Younger kids are even more effected in that their natural innate desire for attention and tendency to want to hug adults is no discouraged. Have you ever seen the hurt eyes of a second grader when kept at a distance by an adult in charge when they try to engage? And still, things DO happen, but in most cases the barriers work, and that needs to be made known and the outliers need to be punished. Talking to the wall I am sure, at least for a few that have decided that BSA, the Catholics, and now most likely the LDS Church, among others, are all predators and should be flagellated in the public square, even at the expense of beneficial programs that are overwhelmingly safer than they have ever been.

So, just for a comparison, here is a link to a discussion of the McMartin fiasco. A lot of issues to review, many which may shed some light here. http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcmartin/mcmartinaccount.html Most importantly, note the residual effects of ruined lives and very possibly emotionally traumatize children AND adults.

This, in my opinion, is one of the worst examples of what once was called the "yellow press". It uses only hypersensitive statements and leaves out most of the real efforts clear back to the 20's to stop these people. Remember that was before our super-sensitive society was open to massive misleading or partially documented public sensationalism. And this article leaves out , as noted much of the complete story, instead reaching for the Mormon Church as an added target so as to make it more highly attention getting. I wonder if we should turn the clock back to the Tea Pot scandals, or maybe bring back the "McMartin case" and reintroduce it under current standards we seem now to accept?

So, basically, the lawyers are running up bills and trying to eat each other, so to speak while those of us that actually care are left in the wind without any real idea how to procede, other than to keep the local units running? Am I about right? As I have stated before; this would not likely be happening almost anywhere else in the world, as our legal/tort system is really messed up and cares only for the money involved. Just my old, and tired opininon of course. .

If you think seriously about it, this is long overdue. Not only saved money and resources, but you can find the section you need and print it and not have to buy a book seldom used for other than on occasion.