-
Posts
3366 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
72
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Articles
Store
Everything posted by skeptic
-
Yes, these things did happen and were dealt with as well, though maybe not as soon as they should have been in some cases. Over the years, there have been instances of drunk leaders, leaders carrying firearms with not proper licenses, leaders and parents doing caravaning, even after it was recommended not to, units still driving kids in the backs of trucks and with improper insurance, or even none. These are all things that have happened and often were likely not even reported. But they are also reflective of what many in the larger population do regularly as well, in their jobs, in their interactions with neighbors, and on the roads. Scouts and Scouters, and the parents of the scouts are all human beings and often fall very short of the ideal. That is what we try to fix with the proper programs. Failure is too often a fact. Does that mean we should simply give up? Does it mean that we attach those failures and errors in judgment to every unit now and to possibly come? While we hope we can possibly be a bit above the madding crowd, but too often we still are not. That does not mean we cannot be. IF you feel, or ever felt, that the overall idea of Scouting will make better citizens and young people, then you should remember that when reading the anomalous stories that media pushes with bias and attempts to sensationalize, and try even harder. JMHO of course.
-
Anyone with rational thinking that is. There obviously are a few that seem to think it is, and has been, a huge issue, even though the "stats" would suggest otherwise. The trouble is, of course, is that those that believe that, or at least claim it, are very loud bayers and not particularly rational. I am not speaking of the actual victims that have valid claims and do exist, but the larger picture in comparative society. And, as discussed over and over, our legal system allows a great deal of overreach and irrational claims. Those that choose to not agree, that is your right, but please do not accuse me of not having concern or empathy, as that is simply not true.
-
So, if simply the location puts them at risk, does that mean the Forest Service, or even the city that owns the park with its numerous dark and secret areas can be held accountable and sued when something happens there? It comes back to who is the "real" perpetrator and if somehow the property owner could logically know that someone would cause harm on their property. If the church or school does not offer the "place", the predator will find one if possible, as it is their nature and no manner of barriers will stop them all. And the truth is that the largest percentage of abuse occurs within family homes and under the noses of others known to the family and victim.
-
Sorry, but I believes in dollars, period. He could care less about damage today based on past issues. Again, I do not see him as a good guy, simply a greedy on on a power trip. JMO of course.
-
It is more of a statement to those suggesting that somehow carrying YP beyond Scouting should be in the YP material. Perhaps I misread a few comments, but I got the impression a few thought National actually needed to put that idea into the program. So, my circuitous thinking is simply that we do not need National or anyone to tell us to live the Oath and Law and other precepts of the program beyond Scouting. I am old and confuse myself much of the time. I mean, I still tend to use the left handed, three finger Scout Sign handshake. But I get confused when confronted with the OA options, particularly since as a Vigil, I guess there is a separate finger grip. I just let the other person decide how many fingers, but I draw a line at toes.
-
Does it make a real difference? IF we claim to "live the Promise", do we need an official declaration or statement to carry it beyond the program? Just asking, as my life view has almost always been affected by my Scouting experience.
-
Chartered Organizations - Where do we go from here?
skeptic replied to Gilwell_1919's topic in Open Discussion - Program
Sadly, this is pretty much accurate, especially here in our screwed up legal system. Until there is a major course correction in our systems, the problems will continue to show up and often play to the benefit of mostly the questionable legal people that prey on emotion and technical semantic manipulation. -
Not to mention the 16 or 17 YO girls they may date. My HS GF was a sophomore when I was a senior. We cannot not simply ignore reality, only influence care and the lost idea of common sense. Nothing new about that in those ancient days. She turned 16 after I graduated. Did not stay together long after that, but we did for a while. I am sure that is an issue today as well.
-
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
What there is also is the, in theory, protection pullout in the handbook. There is a pretty good likelihood that many parents do not actually cover that with their scout. That is based on the observation from a collector that many of the books that have them, starting in the nineties or so, still have the pull outs in tact. I know that I have had scouts tell me their parents and them had not discussed it, though most claim to have seen it. That is not particularly inspiring of it being used. Now that I think about it, that might be something to add to leader training. Try to assure that the scout and parent actually DO review that pullout. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Okay, so using this premise, and based on the statistical percentages of Scouting compared to other youth serving groups, including governmental agencies, and your nightmare is truly frightening, since Scouting is on the low end of the percentage per capita. So, what are your thoughts beyond Scouting, which is seemingly NOT the worst problem? BSA, and now the Catholic Church have admitted to an issue, though the depth of it is fuzzy, and prone to a lot of number playing. IF the stats are even close, society has a massive problem, and the BSA is not the primary agent. Our real problem in this scenario is that actual facts are not easily determined, and that the emotional bias of many will inflate, or deflate dependent on the players. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I occasionally still hear from a young man, once a boy, that fit that description. He remained in the unit for close to 4 years, often not around, but coming back and enjoying, with a lot of other scouts' help, outings and such. He lived with his alcoholic father who often beat him badly, yet he stood up for his father if anyone said anything. It was hard for me to understand that defense mechanism, especially when it came to my attention that very often he stayed with other scouts when his father was on a binge. He was part of our troop, no matter what, and he still notes on occasion that even though he lived a hellish childhood, the troop was a safe place. And that is the real truth about our program beyond the anomalous predators that have been allowed to sneak in. JMHO of course. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Wasn't it a direction of an early court session? Seems to me that was very early, and was part of the court direction that they solicit for victims in some manner. I could be mistaken, as that was now years ago. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
The question that comes to mind for me is if that is even possible. A conversation in theory has give and take, and actual discussion. Hmmmm.🙄 -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Oh, those of us with even a modicum of awareness and ability to evaluate beyond the hype understand you Mr. K. That is why certain large, unsavory scavenger birds are used in referral sometimes. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
I am not qualified to put any figure into such a column, as it is all subjective and will vary dependent on the severity as seen by hopefully a majority. Certainly, one would think that yours, for example, should be far greater than the person that has no real validation and was simply "touched" in some manner. Related, but nowhere near the level of yours. Personally, I would be more comfortable with a "negligence" amount for BSA, and an effort to locate the actual perpetrator, if still alive, and prosecute them fully. But that is not likely to happen, as if they even are alive, they do not likely have that proverbial "deep pocket". My perspective is skewed in that I am not a victim/claimant, and I simply cannot see anyway to clearly identify the apple and the orange. Later. Back again to trying to fill out an impossible BSA form for an OA election. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
They may be there, but on what are they based? Do you feel that they are valid, or even close to valid? My point is that it is impossible to make that data fair to all, or even often to some. Sort of like the insurer with his chart on losing say three fingers. If the victim is a pianist or other type of digital musician is the payout as fair as for someone that is not? No, most would agree. Should we go to the plan of the proverbial farmer that says to the guy that ran over his hen; "you need to pay me for the ten years of eggs she will not lay"? While the industry may have the "tables", the judge and or jury will often tell them tough luck. We think it should be this. Ultimately, the dog catches its tail and bites it, then yelps because he caught it. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 5 - RSA Ruling
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
Once more we are confronted with the conundrum of statistics. One can select the data one chooses, and then build a case for whatever result is desired in their premise. And, based on the selected base data, it appears accurate. Yet, in a broader sample, a different conclusion might be determined, or if the comparisons are not the same categorically, we also find an alternate outcome. What IS a reality is that sexual abuse of youth is a universal problem, and one that is viewed in numerous ways in different societies and cultures, now and in the past. Is Scouting safer than some other youth group? There appears to be many indicators that would suggest that. But there are also other data sets that contradict that premise. We cannot rewrite history, but we CAN and SHOULD use it to reorient our direction. Instead of beating the horse, which is already in bad shape, we need to help it recover and do all we can to not let it get into that condition again. Along with this, we need to arrive at as "equitable" and "rational" method of compensating the "verified" abused, understanding and accepting that we cannot fix the trauma, no matter what the monetary salve may be. It is likely that most of the claimants will not agree on what that monetary figure is, nor will that do much for the emotional issues included in the occurence(s). Emotional/psychological injuries are not the same as physical ones. Insurance table often list various physical traumas in their coverage tables; loss of a limb is so much; loss of only part of a limb, so much; and so on. But they are not able to have concrete amounts for the emotional, and it comes down often to a judge and/or jury. And those decisions are unlikely to be agreeable to many either. And, when you are attempting to pass out "blame" beyond the actual perpetrator, where does that end, and who ultimately determines the magnitude of that blame? I understand that many will accuse me of somehow trying to make excuses, and that is their view. To me, we are now in the position of the dog chasing its tail.🙄 -
I have a small little booklet that apparently was offered by B.L. at some point. It is called Green Bar Bill's Cookbook, and is about 5 inches by 2 and 3/4; 30 pages with a few small illustrations. Basic stuff, but interesting. Does anyone know when this might have been offered? There is no date.
-
How are girls in Boy Scouts working out in other areas?
skeptic replied to Tatung42's topic in Open Discussion - Program
I will not reiterate my own previously shared observations from 20 years of subbing, many in middle school. My personal thought is that they base the idea of conflict in leadership on questionable psychological opinions that were arrived at with targeted studies that were likely weighted for a specific opinion. I am not overly trusting of most so called studies, as they generally are far too small and often do not hold water in real life. And we are all living in real life. -
Not accurate if the discussed option is in place, as the CO becomes the local council and they do have the tax status. However, this discussion is skewed in that not ALL the Methodist churches are represented by the people that published the noted letter. Again, refer back to the link already shared here from the main part of the Church, the Methodist Men, that indicate continued support. The the title might be more accurate if changed to "Some" Methodist Churches.
-
Chapt 11 Proof of Claim leads to Local Search Warrant, Arrest
skeptic replied to RememberSchiff's topic in Issues & Politics
So, it appears that this led to the actual perpetrator being arrested, as it should. Note that there is mention of other reports, and they do not appear to be related to BSA. Just saying; where is the disconnect? Or will they now lead to another similar circus beyond the actual perp? -
Emergency Preparedness Award Question
skeptic replied to docSquatch's topic in Advancement Resources
I would think that if it is discontinued december 2021, that is the answer? -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
If you responded to any of the several come-ons for the "registry/book", you likely are in one or more. Mine was only partially accurate, and then later it got closer. Still is not totally since my council has been gone since about 1970 or so. -
Chapter 11 Announced - Part 4 Revised Plan
skeptic replied to Eagle1993's topic in Issues & Politics
"I'm just saying let's temper our accusations with fact, history and context." Yes, maybe we ALL should do that. Of course, that means we need to make comparisons to the larger society as well, and, at least the one referenced study linked earlier would indicate that BSA has done a better job than most, and that in wider context, its program was safer than many other comparable involvements. But that cannot become the standard, even though the completely safe status is basically impossible, more awareness and NOT ignoring the guidelines is imperative. The study referenced should also be looked at by other youth serving groups, and the public safety organizations and become an incentive for them to also do a far better job.