skeptic

Sadly, this is pretty much accurate, especially here in our screwed up legal system. Until there is a major course correction in our systems, the problems will continue to show up and often play to the benefit of mostly the questionable legal people that prey on emotion and technical semantic manipulation.

Not to mention the 16 or 17 YO girls they may date. My HS GF was a sophomore when I was a senior. We cannot not simply ignore reality, only influence care and the lost idea of common sense. Nothing new about that in those ancient days. She turned 16 after I graduated. Did not stay together long after that, but we did for a while. I am sure that is an issue today as well.

What there is also is the, in theory, protection pullout in the handbook. There is a pretty good likelihood that many parents do not actually cover that with their scout. That is based on the observation from a collector that many of the books that have them, starting in the nineties or so, still have the pull outs in tact. I know that I have had scouts tell me their parents and them had not discussed it, though most claim to have seen it. That is not particularly inspiring of it being used. Now that I think about it, that might be something to add to leader training. Try to assure that the scout and parent actually DO review that pullout.

Okay, so using this premise, and based on the statistical percentages of Scouting compared to other youth serving groups, including governmental agencies, and your nightmare is truly frightening, since Scouting is on the low end of the percentage per capita. So, what are your thoughts beyond Scouting, which is seemingly NOT the worst problem? BSA, and now the Catholic Church have admitted to an issue, though the depth of it is fuzzy, and prone to a lot of number playing. IF the stats are even close, society has a massive problem, and the BSA is not the primary agent. Our real problem in this scenario is that actual facts are not easily determined, and that the emotional bias of many will inflate, or deflate dependent on the players.

I occasionally still hear from a young man, once a boy, that fit that description. He remained in the unit for close to 4 years, often not around, but coming back and enjoying, with a lot of other scouts' help, outings and such. He lived with his alcoholic father who often beat him badly, yet he stood up for his father if anyone said anything. It was hard for me to understand that defense mechanism, especially when it came to my attention that very often he stayed with other scouts when his father was on a binge. He was part of our troop, no matter what, and he still notes on occasion that even though he lived a hellish childhood, the troop was a safe place. And that is the real truth about our program beyond the anomalous predators that have been allowed to sneak in. JMHO of course.

Wasn't it a direction of an early court session? Seems to me that was very early, and was part of the court direction that they solicit for victims in some manner. I could be mistaken, as that was now years ago.

The question that comes to mind for me is if that is even possible. A conversation in theory has give and take, and actual discussion. Hmmmm.🙄

Oh, those of us with even a modicum of awareness and ability to evaluate beyond the hype understand you Mr. K. That is why certain large, unsavory scavenger birds are used in referral sometimes.

I am not qualified to put any figure into such a column, as it is all subjective and will vary dependent on the severity as seen by hopefully a majority. Certainly, one would think that yours, for example, should be far greater than the person that has no real validation and was simply "touched" in some manner. Related, but nowhere near the level of yours. Personally, I would be more comfortable with a "negligence" amount for BSA, and an effort to locate the actual perpetrator, if still alive, and prosecute them fully. But that is not likely to happen, as if they even are alive, they do not likely have that proverbial "deep pocket". My perspective is skewed in that I am not a victim/claimant, and I simply cannot see anyway to clearly identify the apple and the orange. Later. Back again to trying to fill out an impossible BSA form for an OA election.

They may be there, but on what are they based? Do you feel that they are valid, or even close to valid? My point is that it is impossible to make that data fair to all, or even often to some. Sort of like the insurer with his chart on losing say three fingers. If the victim is a pianist or other type of digital musician is the payout as fair as for someone that is not? No, most would agree. Should we go to the plan of the proverbial farmer that says to the guy that ran over his hen; "you need to pay me for the ten years of eggs she will not lay"? While the industry may have the "tables", the judge and or jury will often tell them tough luck. We think it should be this. Ultimately, the dog catches its tail and bites it, then yelps because he caught it.

Once more we are confronted with the conundrum of statistics. One can select the data one chooses, and then build a case for whatever result is desired in their premise. And, based on the selected base data, it appears accurate. Yet, in a broader sample, a different conclusion might be determined, or if the comparisons are not the same categorically, we also find an alternate outcome. What IS a reality is that sexual abuse of youth is a universal problem, and one that is viewed in numerous ways in different societies and cultures, now and in the past. Is Scouting safer than some other youth group? There appears to be many indicators that would suggest that. But there are also other data sets that contradict that premise. We cannot rewrite history, but we CAN and SHOULD use it to reorient our direction. Instead of beating the horse, which is already in bad shape, we need to help it recover and do all we can to not let it get into that condition again. Along with this, we need to arrive at as "equitable" and "rational" method of compensating the "verified" abused, understanding and accepting that we cannot fix the trauma, no matter what the monetary salve may be. It is likely that most of the claimants will not agree on what that monetary figure is, nor will that do much for the emotional issues included in the occurence(s). Emotional/psychological injuries are not the same as physical ones. Insurance table often list various physical traumas in their coverage tables; loss of a limb is so much; loss of only part of a limb, so much; and so on. But they are not able to have concrete amounts for the emotional, and it comes down often to a judge and/or jury. And those decisions are unlikely to be agreeable to many either. And, when you are attempting to pass out "blame" beyond the actual perpetrator, where does that end, and who ultimately determines the magnitude of that blame? I understand that many will accuse me of somehow trying to make excuses, and that is their view. To me, we are now in the position of the dog chasing its tail.🙄

I have a small little booklet that apparently was offered by B.L. at some point. It is called Green Bar Bill's Cookbook, and is about 5 inches by 2 and 3/4; 30 pages with a few small illustrations. Basic stuff, but interesting. Does anyone know when this might have been offered? There is no date.

It is my understanding that each Local Council is its own NP in the state in which it resides. They are separate NP corporations. If someone can show me where that is not accurate, please do.

I will not reiterate my own previously shared observations from 20 years of subbing, many in middle school. My personal thought is that they base the idea of conflict in leadership on questionable psychological opinions that were arrived at with targeted studies that were likely weighted for a specific opinion. I am not overly trusting of most so called studies, as they generally are far too small and often do not hold water in real life. And we are all living in real life.

Not accurate if the discussed option is in place, as the CO becomes the local council and they do have the tax status. However, this discussion is skewed in that not ALL the Methodist churches are represented by the people that published the noted letter. Again, refer back to the link already shared here from the main part of the Church, the Methodist Men, that indicate continued support. The the title might be more accurate if changed to "Some" Methodist Churches.

So, it appears that this led to the actual perpetrator being arrested, as it should. Note that there is mention of other reports, and they do not appear to be related to BSA. Just saying; where is the disconnect? Or will they now lead to another similar circus beyond the actual perp?

I would think that if it is discontinued december 2021, that is the answer?

If you responded to any of the several come-ons for the "registry/book", you likely are in one or more. Mine was only partially accurate, and then later it got closer. Still is not totally since my council has been gone since about 1970 or so.

"I'm just saying let's temper our accusations with fact, history and context." Yes, maybe we ALL should do that. Of course, that means we need to make comparisons to the larger society as well, and, at least the one referenced study linked earlier would indicate that BSA has done a better job than most, and that in wider context, its program was safer than many other comparable involvements. But that cannot become the standard, even though the completely safe status is basically impossible, more awareness and NOT ignoring the guidelines is imperative. The study referenced should also be looked at by other youth serving groups, and the public safety organizations and become an incentive for them to also do a far better job.

Thank you for the more focused info; so the larger file is the IVF, but within it there are sub files, one of which is P and another M, both which play into the larger issue.

Two questions. Who gave you the files to read, and were you able to review completely at random. Those that have reported on the files in depth note that they are not all about abuse, though many are. Leave it at that, as it is obvious that you were given selected files.

My opinion of Mr. K has no reflection on your personal tragedy, It does not take away the reality of what you have suffered, nor does it suggest that your personal experience is not worth a valid response. But, as has been thrown all around, what is it worth? You have admitted that it is the recognition of the wrong that is important, not the level of payout, which is what Mr. K only cares about, based on his actions statements. Just as you note that I know nothing about your suffering, other than what you have shared. That does not mean that my opinion of the larger picture is invalid, only that nothing anyone does will ever cure your damage. It also does not mean that I, or many others may not have suffered unredeemable pain in some manner, just not related to this monstrous kind. Most, if not all, have had their moments of pure emotional trauma and carry a dark spot in our hearts. Punish the actual perpetrator to the nth degree, and that is not even a question. But, do not try to correct the larger problems of a warped society by ruining an overall good organization by painting them as the monster in the room. They made huge mistakes and many had bad judgement, but as discussed ad infinitum, that is reflective of the larger society in place then, and a change in that view today. But please do not make those of us that choose to look at the picture from a broader view and do not want the baby thrown out with the water as the bad guys. I hope you can somehow find the help you really need, but I doubt that the worst scenario with this fiasco will do much to cure it. Good luck.

It is an opinion based on his general history and the long media blitz he engineered. You can take it as you choose, but to me, his actions are those of someone with personal gain as the goal and to hell with the total truth. It was him that dubbed the "Ineligible Volunteer" files as the "Perversion" files and pushed the media to not tell anywhere near the complete picture. The truth that many of the files had little or nothing to do with abuse of any type, but were for other things; but that was conveniently left out with his skewed attacks. That one word, perversion, likely has done more damage than anything else,, even if it tells very little of the realities within those file,s. Not saying he should not have won, only that the level of hype and amount of the payout was onerous and extreme. But, that is the way of our legal system for many things. An insurance policy for injury may specify, for example, $x amount for the loss of X. But, if the right lawyer gets to it, it often can grow to ten times that or more, all based on playing on the sympathy of a jury and the current atmosphere of the public exposure. And, he is that kind of lawyer, or was anyway. Not sure he is one now, which in itself is part of the larger picture. We have no boundaries on many lawsuits, and too often they draw media hype to the extreme and end up being totally out of perspective and common sense. Again, just my view of him and our legal system. And it does not help when a judge is swayed to the bounds of logic and perspective.

Please. The man has done nothing noble. He simply played the system to his benefit by praying on vague innuendo and the media hype to find a sympathetic jury and judge in the past. But, you all know what I really think, I just cannot say it. Carrion.

Any doubters now abou Mr. Kosnoff being a crook? It was obvious from day one to me that he is not a standup person, but only greedy and for whatever reason wants to ruin BSA. Maybe he did not catch a snipe long ago, or found out that smoke shifters are only jokes.