skeptic

YP was not in place as it is today, and even early suggestions sort of related to "supervision" and so on were not focused. And, while BSA did "something" to protect with IV files, it was still not an issue in the broader society. until probably the late fifties or early sixties forward. Add in the messed up legal system and simple ignorance of much of the problem and we ended up where we are today. Ironically, even in the midst of the uproar, the BSA YP was still held up as better than most other youth serving groups.

No need to apologize. I am one of the older curmudgeonly leaders, really now emeritas. But, I had the pleasure and frustration of seeing interactions not just in scouting recently, but also as a sub teacher where the youth displayed a lot of things I found myself watching and adjusting. During a small number of outings we shared camp areas with girls and had combined fires, and one Easter break we were in Balboa Park and each night the leaders, ours and the GS next gate over had to monitor the youth. My last week in summer camp three years ago was an interesting experience, but I saw little issue, though one young woman had to be spoken to by her leaders after some observations and actually youth complaints regarding here demeanor, shall we say. Learning and growing; part of life. Keeping them somehow separated is impractical at best, and asking for rebellion at the worst. JMHO.

This is a weak comment in that no reason having girls in Scouting America should keep the boys and girls from still having their own group sharing and so on. Even in camp situations, the girls and boys can still group, especially since YP has barriers that need to be met. Also, more acceptable social norms develop when adolescents need to be aware of each other on a broader front.

Once again, we choose to accept passing off personal responsibility onto "someone or something". Corporations or PAC's are somehow people, so they can do what individuals can; so says the court. Until somehow we have the courage to FIX the legal jungle and not allow foolish and far fetched ideas or definitions to be accepted, we will continue to have these ongoing messes.

A cog train is also an unusual and fun ride. Rode the short one in the L.A. area, Angel's Flight I believe, as a kid. Was told there was one on Mount Wilson, but never saw or rode it, but I also never visited its observatory. In Europe in the sixties rode a couple of cog trains, as well as long cable cars. We also used to have a small miniature RR at Griffith Park; think it is no longer running, but not sure. Still would love to do the Grand Canyon steam train, but not likely now.

My first real train experience that I remember was also in Scouting. Going to the 1960 Jamboree via Santa Fe RR from San Bernardino, around about for ten days before and after the event and getting the feel of what a railroad was. Today, much of the glamour is gone, but it is still a great experience if going cross country. They have the two level cars to view the scenery, and they even have the night sky visible on some trips. We slept in the pull down births, ate in a dining car attached to a cook car with a woodburning stove, and traveled a couple thousand miles. Still one of the highlights of my life and of Scouting. Took the train to PTC few years ago. Was a nice reminder, and I occasionally go locally on short trips. Of course, I also experienced the old So Cal Red Cars in the fifties. One of the most stupid things they did was get rid of them in favor of the freeways. You could go almost anywhere, and make connections, including to the Grand Central in L.A.

Again; this can all be laid on the warped legal system in this country, along with somehow thinking human frailties can be avoided. Reality tells us that the human animal will often find a way to do what they wish and there are no completely safe interactions, only properly supervised. Most of these issues would not be a problem in other parts of the so-called free world.

Okay; maybe workable? Also seems ripe to be abused if number of units is a stat? hmmmmm

Maybe the efforts could focus on ways to draw modern youth and parents while keeping to the Tenets? Society has changed dramatically since Scouting began, and while the need it there, it is clothed in a new and different atmosphere in the public eye. Looking back is helpful to some extent, but trying to GO back is foolish and asking from failure. B.P. embraced change when he began the movement, and all indications are that he also adjusted for societal changes, to some extent. Comparisons I see much of the time are like the adage of apples to apples. The crops have changed, and there are many more options from which to choose. Too many seem to me to be falling into the same trap our country has, pointing fingers and playing blame games rather than finding new ways and facing facts related to changes in people. Just my view. We have much to offer, so lets find a way and work harder on that to make it happen.

Far too many, from my observations and "hearsay" over the past couple decades is that the majority of boards are just political place holders and rubber stamp voters for an under overseen executive. The board includes all the COR's, but few even know they are actually p;art of the board and never vote except by proxy, controlled of course by the few. This is in my experience, or view, the biggest reason so many councils have issues. Our camp is in moth balls based on a very questionable decision that shows many inaccurate info, especially in regard to the actual p;program and reports from "a majority" of actual leaders and scouts, not just the few that complained that were in the minority by far. There is no doubt there are budget issues, but again that falls on the way the board has worked for decades, kicking cans down the road and ignoring experienced leaders. The inevitable loss of old time and viable Scouters and the National fiasco has contributed, but we now have no go to camp though we still hope to see a cooperative agreement come out of it all. Just the old guy griping?

Sadly, most of the issues are political in my view. We now live in a loosely garbled society that makes claims for fairness and "diversity", but often does not demonstrate such. When we have done the new Citizenship badge, the youth did not get why we needed to do it, as we already pretty much accepted everybody if possible. And, most pointed out that all the "stuff" in the badge was already an expectation, though not in their words, of being a scout and a Brother to other Scouts. We will never get total acceptance or even feigned acceptance from those that choose to be selfish and labor under skewed perspectives. But, overall we do a good job, and most problems seem to me, frankly, to come from adults intruding on the youth and their interactions. One of the things I always noted as a kid was how easily Huck and Tom got along when left to their own interactions. And history is replete with how often plantation children of the "owners" played with the children of the "slaves" and did not know the difference until the adults decided it was time to separate them before they actually found friendship as adults. Where this need to somehow be "better" or more "important" comes from as we get older has never quite been clear to me, though in my own family there was, and still are difficult and prejudiced people.

Other than the announced dates, not anything not already known. Hopefully the subject matter will still be available for Scouters and others alike.

I wonder why we speak of high adventure as differrnt fom camping. They are related. even simple overnights.

I have noted recently that there seem, or so it seems to me anyway, a number of groups coming out with YP type things along similar lines as Scouts America. And, if my memory serves, even before the bankruptcy and so on, BSA (then) was recognized as a leader in YP developments. It is sad that it took all this mess to make the larger society sit up and take notice. Still a huge problem in our society though from what I read. Slow progress. Reality of course shows that ever step forward will be met with new ways around the barriers. Constant attention to following the YP rules is our only recourse. And that goes for society at large as well.

Complete closure can never happen, sadly. Some may be better at partitioning things off in order to function, but everything is locked up in some manner within each of us. And on occasion, something erupts to send us over the edge into despair or ecstasy.

Due to our county's muddled legal system, we can look forward to more of this type of thing unless someone finds the courage to "fix" things so lawsuits are not the go to thing to dismiss personal choice or responsibility, or the long lost ides of common sense.

Sadly, I fear the over the top patch circus has taken over much of the focus. By getting more involved, the exchange and "selling" of patches gains more involvement, but the focus is not on Scouting, only one up and frankly, what profit can we make. Cynic and skeptic both are ingrained in me I guess. Trying to focus on the real Scouting ideals can get frustrating so often. On the other hand, I saw a lot of real Scouting comradeship at the jambo over the years, especially when properly overseen to keep the poorer players under control.

While I am happy many seem to enjoy NOAC, I have never seen it as more than a fundraiser, especially for many councils. The ridiculous patches and over the to hype is just not what I once felt the Order stood for. But I am old and could never afford such luxuries when I was younger. But, some that have attended seem to have enjoyed the opportunity. Sadly, I seldom found improvements locally on their return. They still read ceremonies and were seldom proactive is camping service. My new middle name is "grouch".

So, can a young person that considers themselves "an old soul" receive special benefits for the elderly? Just curious.

going through some old ones from our past we found a number of way past use items, and at least one or two that no longer are even legal. Tiny tubes and bottles that needed special handling and disposal. But we did not review the tape and pads at the time, so we need to find where the old things are, as our rooms are being worked on by he church and stuff went into hiding for a bit. Likely do not have any, but who knows? We had two of the old snke bite kits hanging about.

This just came up on Talk About Scouting on FB. Few will have this concern, but there are a lot of collectors and older troops may simply have old first aid kits hanging around. Take a look. Better safe than sorry. " NOTE: Since today’s Girl Scout memorabilia post is about first aid kits, we thought it might be a good time to repeat this special notice… Got picric acid? You might! First aid kits made in the 1930s and 1940s by Johnson & Johnson (including Girl Scout kits) often included gauze pads soaked in picric acid, which was a very effective burn ointment. The problem is that as picric acid ages it crystallizes and becomes an explosive. A few years ago, after being warned by a museum curators organization about the picric acid hazard, we discovered a few pads in first aid kits in our collection. We talked with our fire department and they sent out the Denver bomb squad. Our pads were carefully removed and taken to Denver International Airport, where they were detonated at the farthest end of the longest runway. A collector in California laughed that we thought a 3” gauze pad was dangerous. But eventually she contacted her local fire department, who immediately evacuated her neighborhood and detonated two pads in a pit in her back yard — and that blew a hole in her cinderblock wall. After that she was a little mad at us, but didn’t laugh. If you discover that your old first aid kit has picric acid gauze pads, immediately contact your local fire department and ask what they think should be done. We’ve given this advice to dozens of people across the country (including many eBay sellers), and their fire departments have always taken the picric threat seriously; we hope you will, too"

Since my camping is now restricted to drive in sites, or ones we can drive easily to anyway, but have few or no facilities. Water is often needs to be carried in so cal, and some campgrounds do not have serviceable toilets, or enough for larger crowds. But there are a lot of more remote spots that do not have any at all, but you can camp there and fend. As a well seasoned person, I no longer deal well with the needed process, other than peeing in the buses. My family has a five acre plot in the desert that is on the edge of Joshua Tree, but we do not live on it, and we have not put water or electric in either, though the kids may at some point in the future. But, I take the group out to my house on a third acre and we deal with one bathroom and portable urinals, but if we want to use the acreage, it has no facility. I was looking at available portable items and note they are not too expensive for the basic needs. Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with these travel potties?

Like the term "awkward scouts". I would agree that is a great description. Also feel that the labeling that is common today is part of the problem. The youth's peers too often pick up on that and it becomes far more difficult than it might otherwise. Always a balance, and helping both the "differentand his Scouting peers deal with things is part of the challenge. Yet I have seen many of them come into their own when encourage by scout peers to get involved. Learning for them all, and for many adults I think too.

Sadly, our society generally gets in the way of this common sense approach, especially the looming black feathered birds of the legal system.

https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/?s=siple Great piece and the type of public exposure we need badly. The mention of the current NESA program for similar types of opportunity is really important I feel. And we need to make all of those participants and what they do public and do it loudly. Whatever we can do to show the overall value of the program is important. Scouting, and Scouting America will never be perfect, and it never was. That is just reality. But, the overall positive elements in the history and possible going forward is still there. And today, our society, and really the world needs that badly. JMHO of course as a well seasoned old goat.