skeptic

Yep; it was my point in the nineties with the Gay issue and others that followed. The wheels were moving in that direction, but some felt the need to stigmatize BSA and others for PC reasons. We would likely have gotten to where we are anyway, but maybe on our own terms and with far less turmoil.

For years my shot/vaccination segment has included circa mid forties childhood vac's, polio date aproximated with cube, had dissease, or the actual dates more recently. Few of us have specific records of childhood shots, especially if born in the middle of the 20th century.

As a tangential discussion, I am reminded of BP trying to put Scouting forward as an international way of reaching other cultures without the often caustic political issues adults too often bring to the table. He used the term "Peace Scouts" on occasion. And we can find many stories from international Scouting events and just occasional meetings from other Scout groups that support the idea. We are often far too centered on BSA and pay little attention, other than at World Jamborees, to other groups. We were fortunate in 1979, while on a trek at Philmont, to run into a full crew of South African scouts. They had come to Philmont in lieu of the cancelled Iranian Jambo. We had a great interchange of Scouting. But what I found most telling was that there were twelve of them, senior scouts who were all white. But their adult leader was Black, and the White youth showed him seemingly absolute respect. This was when Apartheid was still in place. Of course we have also heard the stories, whether true or not we do not know, of foes meeting in the World Wars and discovering Scouting as a shared element, choosing to not become enemies in the moment. But, from my observations over time, I too often have found myself not giving enough credit to youth for things, or allowing them to figure it out. Yet that is a major part of the program. We adults need to not take our youth more seriously and actually "listen"; that is not just hearing, but understanding with interchange if needed.

As often seems to occur, some post poorly supported historical comments, often having little or no understanding of the evolution of the program over time. As someone noted, much of the past history of Scouting is intwined in the larger societal norms of the time and locations. In the case of Blacks, it became an issue for decades, discussed and bounced around at biennial conferences of Exectutives, and at National offices as early as the early 20th century. That the focus was more on the South at the time is to be expected. Yet, in many instances local councils found ways to work with the problem, while struggling to not butt heads too hard with local cultural norms of the time. Meanwhile, we can find historical references of the youth simply being scouts together while adults played the political games. As with most changes in community standards, it is a slow evolution to a place where it is mostly part of the norm. It is unfortunate that we live in a time when some feel the need to somehow change history by dragging things into today from an earlier time, then addressing it with today's standards(?). In occasional movies that play with the idea of time transport we see how some picture such things, and the difficulties it makes when out of the original time segments. Sometimes these movies are just comedic, but some actually attempt to deal with the possible confusions and so on. To me, in this case, though I would suggest the young women should have perhaps not worn uniforms if they planned ahead of time to breach their discussion, they did a great job. That is what learning rights and responsibilities means in the early requirements, and why there are Citizenship requirements that ask them to be involved in some manner. It is often fine line.

Enough to cover your therapy and creat a tangible and stable investment to allow comfort financially without avarice and living above others in moderate middle income families or individuals in the U.S. Added to that, an honest effort by authorities to punish properly the actual perpetrator if still alive, without punishing his descendents unless they could be proven to be involved beyond familial blindness. Monetarily, a half million dollars invested properly will offer a good return indefinitely. Especially if the cost of therapy is not coming out of your pocket or those earnings. I do not even suggest that this would make you whole, as even a billion dollars will not do that. At the same time, unless each of you can find a way to hold others in the larger tragedy of poor judgements or CYA, including possibly family, authorities, and maybe even therapists and octors responsible similarly, then you (not you specifically) might be viewed as vindictive with no peripheral considerations. It will never be "fair", to you, the victims, or to those tangentially affected by others' poor judgements or CYA decisions. Pure vengeance and avarice at the detriment of others not responsible is not anymore "fair" than just ignoring the whole thing. As I noted befoe, "Lady Justice" carrys a scale for a reason.

Must be alot of great brownies available to some posting here. The snide inuendos is not missed by anyone, but that has become the norm with a few now. Not worth even trying to actually having balance and overall fairness with a few. So, since the suggestion is that I do not care about the victims (though I do, but with vetting)I might suggest that some do not care about the youth of today's program. That is surely not the case, but the outlandish settlement figures do not validate that. Have fun with your pointed tongue.

Pure insanity from my perspective. If that is truly their idea of fair and balanced, then they are under the influence. Please do not give me the BS about I do not care or something. This figure is simply so far out there that I am surprised they would share it.

I either need to have new eyes, or I need to change my understanding. The figure shown here is in the trillions, not billions. Now I understand errors happen, but am I reading this wrong, or is that actually somehow their pie in the sky idea?

That one is really important with the chance of metal or splinter injuries. A pine needle under a nail is not fun either. All might result in a tetanus shot.

I just received this through the Methodists FB site. It appears there has been work in the background and they may yet work it all out. https://michiganumc.org/bishop-offers-new-advice-on-scout-charters/?fbclid=IwAR1oUmtjRR5UThWWuFzf1GAIToUFuv6asQ8qwTwW43Mp5L5Z48qXGDh6W44 In the meantime, we are treading water and looking at the Kiwanis, though we would still meet at the church, which they want. With this extension, hopefully we can forego an actual charter org change.

I was led to believe that the early childhood inocculations were forever. I got what was available in the mid to late forties, then the polio when it became available. I had mumps and chicken pocks as a kid in very heavy cases, then oddly got measels twice my last quarter of my freshman year; first the regular "3 day", then just a couple weeks later the German. Missed half the last quarter and messed up my grades royally due to absences. Also was given stuff for plague when I was supposed to go to Peru in the Peace Corps, then got "selected out" and ended up joining the Air Force in 65 and when they had an outbreak of plague in Turkey in 1966 they gave all of us in Europe the plague shots, and I got really ill due to the basically double dose. They would not believe me that I had gotten it less than a year before, and I did not have the proof. But, never got the plague.

Yes, most of the suggested payouts are accurate based on info we have seen. BUT, the main gist of the story is that LC's and others are not putting in as much as they can or should. And that is simply not accurate, other than if they were to liquidate. Of course, that would make Mr. K happy, as we already know. Still, I am properly chastised that I suggest his right to "free speech" should be restrained, and that is not corret. Though his free speech tends to be a lot misleading and maybe even a little fuzzy. He got what he wanted though, so he should be pleased, no matter how misleading much of it is. Just don't expect me, or perhaps others, to not find it to be tainted.

Well, the Tribune News Service, one of their papers in Seattle, has published an article which is obviously based on Mr. K's opinions, and maybe one or two of his proselyted contributors. The financial details, such as they are, are of course completely skewed with Mr. K's opinion, obvious to me and likely those that have read any amount of this over the past month+. I really do not understand how the judge continues to allow him to spread these half or less truths, pushing his own views without any other input. Of course, the Tribune service writer is equally responsible for incomplete research(if any at all) and obvious lack of balance. I have to wonder how much she may have made from this tabloid piece?

Not really surprising since if they do not require at least that already part of school admission, they again may be open to overzealous legal issues fro my less than favorite legal birds. Tetnus is already a must, and so it should be for a camp setting. Not sure about shingles, as that is primarily adult level and connected to chicken pox. On the other hand, I can assure you it is not fun to have. One of the worst couple weeks of my later adult life. Had it before teh VA offered the injection, but they gave me one anyway, as it can come back in rare instances.

I seldom used an up or down vote for years, but recently, it is easier than getting caught up in the accusatory language of some if you should disagree. I no longer often am patient enough to deal with trying to "explain", especially when it seems pretty clear to me already. Shrug and mostly ignore, or hit the down or even up. Easy-peasy. 😑

Sounds as if they are discriminatedly doing it. Just saying.

While he should have been no allowed based on currently known information, and it suggests poor checking. Background checks I believe had not yet been ut in place. Do not know whether this would have shown in one anyway. Still, poor judgment in seeming to not check things properly. Always the likely hood that references could have also been less than open, even if they were contacted. But, this does not seem to indicate, at least from what is shown, sexual abuse on record at the time. These types of examples are fuzzy at best, and we may be reaching some. Not sure they are really particulary pertinent, other than supporting poor follow and review.

"The American public has completely bought into the idea that if something bad happens you are entitled to be reimbursed and that means that SOMEONE with a big checkbook has to be held to blame. " And this is far TOO true and part and parcel of the mess we have here and in many other cases. The key item here is "someone with a big checkbook; or at least the perception of one". The view is without any peripheral vision. Perfection and absolutism is simply impossible. But that does not deter, and that is why it goes off on tangents and loses focus to the point of insanity.

While it is more visible, many camps still have their variants on these traditions. We have our Tribe of Matilija at our camp, but they do not do ceremonies. It is mostly just another option for the summer program and gets some service done in camp while units earn the award, which is now far different than its original requirements that developed in the thirties at Camp Gray. The Tribe was the basis for the OA Lodge, and the original Lodge members were all part of the Tribe of the time when started in the forties. Long Beach has a very large Tahquitz group at the camp, and it too is part of the summer program and allows camp service separately from OA. They appear to have modified much of their initiation programs away from the Native American concerns, but not sure about the hard core, as I am not in that council and was only made an honorary member as a leader at camp years ago. Chawankee has its Tribe, and as far as I know they still run their in camp program as well, though modified from what I have been told. Again, though I am on paper a "Medicine Man" and appear in their log of the Medicine men "quests", I do not recall much real NA details, but also it is likely two decades since we regularly attended the camp, and my entry was in the early 80's. I suspect that there are many more local "tribes" or "clans" at camps. In earlier days, it was often one of the main components of camp programs, some very elaborate, others just a smaller part of the larger program. A few of the very early patches, for example, from long gone camp groups have become premium "collector" items, ofthe bring four digits if a prime item. None of it from the past should taint the present IF current YP is in place and followed. Reality here, like in everyday society, is that there are those that either through ignorance, "I have a right" attitudes, or simply beligerance will flout rules and laws. That is why we have to have law enforcement. And NO organization will ever be absolutely secure or safe from those that choose to ignore or simply never try to even understand guidelines. While padding YP and making sincere efforts to police it are necessary, no amount of oversight can ever offset the realities of the societal scoflaws or simply warped personalities. We can never have that utopia; but we also cannot then shrug and not apply oversight reglularly, and deal with violators without favoritism to power and money, which often are joined at the hip.

Not sure USA Today is a very reliable source from most of what they publish.

No point in trying to be rational or pointing out actual improvements, as the bulk of the issue predates, as has been noted, the rapid development of YP. But, the recording and reviews definitely need to be bolstered. That, of course, is really something that needs public awareness on all fronts, and not just with CSA issues. Little is ever simply black and white, and the shading is too often decides by emotion and incomplete data. As many have noted, we can argue all we want about the past, but we cannot change it, nor can we do justice to damage, either physical or psychological. Improving with new knowledge and methods is paramount. More important is doing all we can to assure the in place rules are followed and not simply shrugged off if something is out of place or odd, but we cannot believe the parties maybe involved would do that. It has to be followed. With luck, it will clear itself up. Better to ere on the side of safety, especially with this issue. It is sad that so many insist on putting today, whether in BSA, or almost any other people related interaction, in the shadows of past mistakes and societal norms. Those that claim it is fair to drag the past into today are correct, but it should not be also used to suggest today is the same. It is not. And it will continue to evolve. I just hope we can salvage the mostly positive and stop bludgeoning today's programs, not just BSA, with those mistakes of the past.

Guess this should be here. Have reached out to Council as to how we do this? I should be covered anyway as a retired educator; but not sure how that gets linked. May be an opportunity for the Fingerprinting merit badge? https://apnews.com/article/california-recall-business-california-legislature-child-abuse-cc67021945d6cf68606f3333d14a847e?fbclid=IwAR0niFEEQ_pQsopxp-8L2bBP37MZFbvwzO3w9rAJSiNXQih8fzuaXGYYwR0

Will be interesting to see the results.

There is no way to make you stop putting words into my typing. I never said or even suggested there was no harm, no matter how far back you choose to go. I said I do not see how there is any real way to assign value to the damage for monetary means, and that even if there was, it will not cure the overall interrelated pain. No matter what actual meaning I have intimated, I have never stated no physical harm was done, or suggested the psychological harm is not real. Accept that I do not see the "how" factor. Just because something has been on record for centuries does not change, at least in my view, the impossibility to arrive at consistent and non subjective responses. And you beating my opinion with the dead horse does not make any difference.

This just showed up in a FB page: https://legalnewsline.com/stories/608422718-judge-orders-deeper-probe-into-where-thousands-of-boy-scouts-sex-abuse-claims-came-from?fbclid=IwAR0IGy-lFMOEhEhEOOE0bFHLnKPZA9hrvRfj_f3SeCrgR1vwpV4d4VYH54A Since I do not follow these threads constantly, I may just have missed comment on it. But, on the other hand, I am intrigued by the note of skepticism indicated.