skeptic

No disagreement from me here. But, we are unlikely to see this attitude change much due to our terribly flawed legal system. Many of the lawsuits we see in this country would never even make it to court elsewhere. While common sense appears in danger globally to some extent, in this country it is on life support. JMHO of course, having ridden in pickup beds and not having had a helmet for my balloon tired, coaster brake bike, or for that matter, when I first rode a horse or rolloer skated. No pads either. That does not mean I do not agree that these safety items are not needed, only that overkill tends to lead to rebelling, or simply ignoring.

The reason the Region 12 song was put aside, to be kind, is because it suggested sleeping in the nude, and it sort of snubbed noses at other regions in its chorus. Ane we loved it. I still occasionally sing the original, just for fun.

So, for fun, not whatever contentious opinions might transpire, share some old songs and skits we used before the age of "verybody" is offended, and there is unacceptable innuendo in that skit or song. The old "mine is longer than yours" skit. It was a standard in the fifties and sixties. Or, the original Region 12 song; the one we sang literally to death at the 1960 Jamboree.

https://1funny.com/allan-sherman-performing-camp-grenada-1963/

While I personally understand your point, I feel calling it a lie may be a poor choice of words. To me, it is simply a sloppy use of words. Too many today are unable to write concisely.

Perhaps too much redirection, but I could see a variant of the merit badge that allowed segments for various specialty areas.

Not certain the above is accurate, but if somehow it is, it discourages Scouting brotherhood, sharing with other units in activities. I do not see an issue with two or even three units combining on some activities, both for the needed participation for success, and for the simple concept of Scout Spirit and sharing. IF a CO has reservations, then they can make that decision related to a specific activity. I do not see most having any real issues with other unit events and visiting and participating. Our summer camp regularly attaches occasional provisional scouts to units for various reasons, with the approvals of the other units and the parents. Maybe I am not reading other comments accurately? After all, how would this apply to a Jamboree?

Thank you.

Sorry, that is your view. But, perhaps I should add addressing any physical problems as well as possible? I still contend that the monetary elements should be in the form of actual help, whether physical or mental; not just a big chunk of dollars. I am sorry you find that insulting, but that was and is not the intent.

My point is that the money should be put into the needed programs to aid emotional issues past and present. Such programs then open to those in need with proper vetting of eligibility. No amount of money is ever enough to make up from the past, and the concept that a payment fixes anything is fictitious. Simply giving people money out of societal guilt is likely not productive for them in likely most cases. If the money is tied to actual therapy, it is then at least sensible. I likely do not need to point out that most people, when handed unexpected dollars, tend to not spend it on fixing what the guilt payment is intended. We just arrive back though at the same place. My contention is to offer all survivors the actual help they need to redirect their lives, while also working to find better ways to combat the CA rampant in society as a whole. To me, that should be the goal, not just to say here is whatever amount, now you are okay. But we need a balance that addresses the wrongs from the past, but with as little damage to the present as possible. That perceived big pot of money has a lot of current-day attachments. That needs to be part of the consideration. Add to the "settlement" perhaps an honest attempt to also bring those still around that are the actual perpetrators to justice as well. Finally, the continuing suggestion that because some of us may look at things without the weight of being a victim of this particular event does not mean that we cannot have our own demons and understand the difficulty these survivors may have encountered and continue to encounter. They simply exist in different mental shadows and are our own struggles which we choose to keep to ourselves, or perhaps with our own methods of therapy. So, now it again is time to watch the likely continued tragedy play out to a poor conclusion for most involved, except perhaps the lawyers.

Since I tend to be super skeptical of most attorneys in this kind of case, the scenario is just reinforcing that perception for me. I truly see the focus on money, period, and the rest of the background is just dressing to make them look good, perhaps. And the money focus is the guiding part of the process, whether for survivors or the lawyers. The YP focus continues to fall into the background, and much of what has improved in that arena, both with BSA, and the larger society gets pushed to the back in favor of the monetary, greed and playing the system for profit. It seems to me that the focus should be on getting the survivors the mental help and counseling that they may need at the expense of the BSA and others, not on throwing money at them, encouraging avarice by some, and especially by the "legal" opportunists. My view of a continuing circus with no absolute answers; so they continue to think money will instead solve it all. It won't, only leave bitterness behind. Meanwhile, the youth of the current era are not being well served, especially with the focus, in my view, being where it is. IF real, viable guidelines for YP can evolve, that is a win; but it needs to not be corrupted by avarice.

Seems like mostly a learning opportunity at this point. The worst thing the adults can do is get in the middle of it with some attitude issues, as has been suggested already. The key is that whatever transpires, each of them does a complete project, complemetary or not. We had twin brothers years ago that did project independently but at the same non-profit. They both turned out well, and the recipient of the service was thrilled. Initially, the troop had to deal with the youth and their parents not quite getting that it had to be two separate activities. Of course, at the time, the two were twins that were almost joined at the hip. It was definitely a learning and growth experience for all of us.

This reflects on my contention that BSA, at all levels, should be he poster image for environmental focus. Green if possible, including solar and wind, along with composting and maybe even solar toilets in some cases. Bring internet at high speed to camps if possible. As noted, the photo becomes the collection, which means they use their phones much of the time. Technology can be our frind. BP even acknowledged that at times. Be the example that makes the nastiness of the media have to admit the benefits of Scouting.

On the other hand, this in from Bryan on Scouting offers a valid and, to me, exciting direction to the program, if done properly. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2021/11/19/scout-camps-new-skilled-trades-center-will-introduce-young-people-to-in-demand-fields/ This plays well into the current California redirection of junior colleges to more focus on local options and trade school opportunities. I could see a camp being part of the refocus of this needed venture in redirection of education and skills. We already have a perfect example at our camp with welding, run by Jack Compton, the creator of the main elements of the merit badge. Besides camp, he also does the program for units, usually finalized with a weekend of welding and camping on his property in the Lake Piru area. Proper utilization of the camp properties should include these types of options, as well as more traditional adventures. And, the development might add to the community outreach and positive vibes for the various areas.

Yep, many things we did that made the youth stay were the challenges of games and one on one physical competitions. In the early Scouting materials you can find many such contests that pit one on one. Many, today, would be considered "too dangerous" or "too much of a chance for minor injuries". What those of us now in the doddering stage of life may still remember is that we learned to deal with minor pain and trivial scratches or strains, especially if we defeated an arch competitor. I used to teach the kids to do Indian leg wrestling which means success is often in the quickness and technique, but if the combatants are too different in size much chance for the smaller ones. Yet, the smaller boys often insisted on being rolled just for the fun of it. We also did a balance joust game with padded batons made with old boxing gloves and later additional coverage of foam. At SOR's, we did these things as part of the show, and we were always busy. The worst injury to come out of those SOR contests was my own; a serious hamstring pull when I took on another leader and we were locked in the air in a stalemate for a long while until I literally heard the sound as the pain shot through to my glutes. Could not walk for over a week without serious help. I suppose today if that happened to youth in a contest it would be liability time. That in itself is where much of our problems lie.

The slip is important, especially should the youth get separated from the parent in some manner and the parent cannot be found or brought in a timely manner. Most permission slips, scouting related or otherwise also have medical authorizations for emergencies too.

Entertaining pulp stories published early taking advantage of the Boy Scout interest in youth. Eaton one of the better ones, but most of the books in the genre of the period are poor plots and do not use factual Scouting ideas and skills. That is why BSA did not approve or recommend many of them. Still, the young adult, youth pulp books payed a part in many youth becoming readers, and many graduated to real literature and fine fiction, as well as nonfiction. While this is not my original concept, I would agree based on having read some of them, and noted the outlandish and often dangerous plots. Best part of many were the covers and occasional illustrations.

You can always come back to what a similar experience from completely private vendors would cost. Perhaps someone has some comparatives? My search skills do not work well for me.

That anyone involved should even be making 10% of that figure is obscene. Simply reflects the status of our legal system.

I love the phrase "Kosnoff error". Yeah, right.😒

While I have stated often that our legal system is a morass of inequality and prone to manipulation by greed and legal bending of things, I find the piece makes unfounded assumptions. Mainly, most of the CO's are NOT deep pockets, nor did they have much to do with the actual crimes. It also continues to perpetuate the idea that BSA has resources that are worth far more than reality or restrictions allow. The perception that most local councils have billions in hidden assets is ludicrous. Most have been struggling for decades to simply stay above water. Yes, a few are flush. But they also open those resources to more than BSA, often at cost to those outside the program. Also, many camps have, and will continue to be basing sites for disasters, especially forest fires, at at no cost to the agencies using them. Few are willing to do a complete review of all sides of the complex issues. A good thing though with this piece is that it points harshly at the government connections getting away almost completely, which happens far too often due to twisted laws and court decisions. JMHO, so please do not slay with insipient accusations.

If you read the included link, The Episcopal Church, two variants of the Catholic Church, and the LDS are also noted in the filing.

Years ago, I drove from Ventura to Newport Beach to see the traveling exhibit of the time. I was well worth the stress of the L.A. freeways. Also saw the art, or part of it, in Dallas before the move to Philmont.

It would be great if the event was on tape for us too far away, and too old to travel. You know, half of us on these forums.😊

I believe if he is listed on the charter as both a DL and Committee, then he can work on the DL stuff. He is just duel registered. Benn a while though since I was involved with these things directly.