skeptic

Not that I am aware of. But, I am simply me, and I do not have the power of omniscience.

An absolutely accurate comment, even for those of us that feel the process has to have some type of "balance", for lack of what seems to be a better word. There is no absolute cure; again, beat to death. There is a way to recognize past errors in judgement and societal responses, and to make efforts to stop those as often as possible, given the propensity of some to not pay attention or trust, even when the indicators are there. I do not feel that the survivors should not be helped and given recompense. But that cannot be limitless, and it should not be built on the backs of other innocents. Hopefully most will find a way forward. And, as noted more than once, final recompense to the true predators is not in any of our hands, but I believe a higher power will make that judgement. Merry Christmas, etc. to all.

And you would be wrong. But I also have no idea how to come up with a number for the damages, especially since so much is emotional and has no accurated way to measure. As I said to TN; good luck and I truly hope you find some way to deal with your personal issues beyond casting blame and insinuation on others. As I noted, the help is far beyond me, or anyone pressing this. Judgement is not mine, it is greater than any of us. Merry Christmas to you as well; please find some comfort in the real message of the season.

Well, miley is of no interest, and we will view the mess differently. I pray that somehow some lessening of the burden happens, but just not at the expense of the, as we have said again and again, the total destruction of the largely great program. Ill feelings also are beyond most our pervues, but the level is not mine to judge. You and others have that right, and if I had the way to do it, I would somehow take it away. Again, I do not have that power, and so again, I wish you well and hope you might find some kind of position closer to peace. Good luck, and Merry Christmas or whatever perspective of the season you may favor. And thank you for any positive things you have done, or continue to do, for Scouting. No reconciling that picture for me though, as the larger goal does not seem aimed at its best interests.

It cannot fully compensate, or cure, or fix. We reach the point of punishing the innocent at the expense of an impossible goal. They could give you all a billion dollars, and you still would still not be made whole; and the hate and enmity would still be there. That lies in the realm of powers that supercede this whole mess.

Well, I would say that at least makes a picture that makes some sense, though is really still apples and oranges to some extent. Also, far too many questions arise as to how many valid claims there may be, and also the categories in which they fall in the continum devised by the "experts".

That is something that I cannot explain. Just compensation that completely ruins an overly very positive community asset is, in my perspective not just at all. I have no issue with fair compensation, just with finding the most dollars, even if it means destroying BSA and its mostly positive outreach. I have noted that paying for real pain and whatever counseling may be needed should be part of it; but simply ignoring the effects on others, especially that had nothing to do with it, is just as unfair, or out ow balance. It comes from a different perspective or something. A psychologist might offer some clarity, but that is beyond the average person that sees the larger world. And that does not even address the likely other decision makers that "may" have made poor decisions based on the time and family or societal approaches.

Yes, it really is one big question as to what is real and what is simply modern societal confusion. There are many old saws that could apply, but it basiclly comes back down to the lack of "balance", like on the Lady's scale. Locally meanwhile, some units are rebuilding trails with the FS, others are doing outreach to the homeless, and food pantries are getting somehow restocked. Scouts help with civic ceremonies and still go camping and have fun, even with the many restraints. The idea that the huge value of the larger, and still working program should be tossed to the rubbish heap due to that lack of balance and grand wishes and really in many cases greed, is simply sad. That is my view; and I understand that some feel otherwise, thoug I would suggest that they are not seeing through the glass clearly. Merry Christmas.

And the violin continues as Rome is burning. I had a short interaction with an elderly woman at our church, a Methodist, about her thoughts on the legal issues. It is interesting how so many of what most would consider the average citizen seem to still have a positive feeling about Scouts and are just as disappointed and frustrated as many of us here. We keep coming back to my term, balance, and how that really is NOT a word that the loudest proposents care to hear. Again, the main considerations, in various stances are money, vengence, general malice, exageration, and messed legal system. Meanwhile local units continue to give community service and other outreach with not strings. Simply very sad.

Once again, the malice and greed shows through; or so it appears with this scenario. That is what is wrong with the whole mess. Too many inidividuals that are simply looking for money and or vengence. The xxx with any peripheral damage and those harmed.

Yes, it seems to be as clear as the proverbial mud.

We have some of that "excess" property. But the church is woking within the large community to turn it into outreach options for the homeless and others. They do not want to simply sell it for the dollars, especially to turn over to the the larger national level for sins of others. Our unit has never had any claims, nor have most in our area. Again, it is the view of community versus individuals in most of these cases, and too many do not care, as some have accused me in regard to the victims, about the broader picture or group(s). Balance.

It annoys me that some feel that today's churches should abandon their property assets, from where they continue to do outreach to the larger communities, just to fund the mistakes and judgment errors from decades ago. Our over a century and a half old church has a half dozen major charitable entities that use their site for almost nothing, tending to drug and alcohol remediation, and running a preschool with low costs to parents, supporting food banks, supporting world wide mission outreach, and so on. Just because the buildings may be worth money today, and even more so the properties on which many sit, does not mean they can give it all to funding those past mistakes. Not fair to today's "victims". The old adage, to stiff Peter to pay Paul may apply here. But we are really looking at the broader issue of self centeredness versus community cohesiveness. Who was it that said, "It takes a village"? Well, too many want to destroy the village for their own benefits only. Again, just my old fogie perspective.

There is no amount of maney that will "fix" the real pain, and certainly, as stated before, fixing societal issues from decades ago at the expense of current youth is just as wrong. But, as I have noted more than once, I am looking for balance, and not destroying the program for today's youth to pay lawyers and somehow actually help survivors with real conseling and so on as possible, not just throw money and say it is good. Because, it will not be good for those that were actually affected, and to expect more money to do that is foolish. Just me view, and perhaps my view of fair, and fair is far different than you or some others. Agree, ignore, or state your own views. We all look at things differently, and we all deal with traumas in our own personal manners. I just want this to be over and be able to move forward with our current youth without the spectre hanging over us constantly. Adhere to YP, and do not let our guards down, as there will always be predators that will try to sneak in. Have a good day.

Some seem not to understand that the turnip is done, and the other vegies have little to offer that is real. We all know the Catholic Church has its own mess, that is interrelated with this one. As for the Methodists, the idea they somehow have deep pockets is ludicrous. Anyone that is a member of the local churchs understands the edge on which most of them teeter.

Much of it may have to do with the stress on the two largest remaining CO's and their concerns about the future. That is the Methodists and the Catholics. Our unit is experiencing a lot of frustration, and even some anger in response to the recharter issues. And most of the pressure is from outside, caused by and broght to them by the whacked out legal system and , IMO impossible expectations of a few claimants, most that appear to care little for the broader issues involved. And I am not dismissing legitimae survivors, only looking at what seems to me reality, versus pie in the sky wishes and expectations. The old saw that "two wrongs do not make a right" seems, to me, to be applicable with this whole mess. But, I keep hoping that our tired lady with the scale will find some relief somehow.

Of course, once it all shakes out, that 82,500 is likely to be far less. I cannot see anything being approved without some vetting, especially with the ones that apparently were just pushed through at th last minute.

It is not the Oath and Law that are flawed, but the individuals that choose to not adhere as most of us, "today", interpret it. We come back to the idea that somehow we in this time in history are responsible for the misguided peceptions and attitudes of another era. And, even then, there were many groups that were able to welcome the Black youth in some manner, often having to buck local attitudes and so on. It is never going to be "fixed" in the past, and human nature will never allow it to be totally "fixed" today. That is on the individuals, not the organization. As is so well stated in the Saturday Evening Post article from 1935 I shared a few days ago, the positive far outweighs the negative, and over time, the overwhelmingly good effects on youth and communities far surpasses the bad of those that choose or chose, as individuals, to NOT adhere to the precepts that make the huge majority of youth, and adults, so worthy of positive reflection. I continue to be annoyed and frustrated by those that have impossible expectations, especially in a society that has benefited so much overall from Scouting and its "best" actions. Darkness is always dispersed by light if the light is allowed to shine.

This is simply sad, but also very frustrating. The very organizations and groups that contribute so much to the betterment of our communities are now at the point of withdrawing almost all of their effort due to our misquided legal system. We are looking pretty much at the ideal of "the good samaritan" conundrum. Nobody will do what they can see needs to be done, or improved, due to fear of litigation that is rarely a direct result of their interactions. Bad people exist in society, and a few, find ways to sneak into a position to do harm. But, if we are all afraid of the very slight possibility of being held accountable for actions beyond our logical control, we do not make the efforts. It is a lot like the doctors that no longer paractice due to the high cost of trying to protect from mistakes, often of others in a procedure in which they are peripheral. One oversight, or one misstep, neither intended, should not ruin the greater good done by programs, service groups, and churches. And, if something does, legitimately happen, the larger umbrella institution should not be held accountable just because their subsidiary made a poor decision. We, as a century old unit in a Methodist church may no longer have a meeting place after this year due to this morass of fear and legal concerns. The local church loves us, but now, the larger Church is recommending no further affiliation, and has told the individual churches that they are on their own if they choose to continue. Since most churches do not have money to burn, and now insurance is either too costly, or simply no longer offered, they are closing the doors. Again, what is wrong with this picture? What is wrong with this picture?

While there is apparently some helpful connections that occur through NESA for the aged out Eagle, most of it is aimed at trying to reengage the members locally and to offer scholarships. The books are one of those resources, just as the subsidiary puff items. They are only another option, and few local chapters are particularly active, as it is another one of the pieces of our "hour a week" committments. None of us have inexhaustible time for doing good things, and so we have to choose what is important and what we may be good at. NESA serves a purpose, and in our Council, it does take lead on the annual Eagle recognition, including a speech contest for a youth speaker, and a small local scholarship. The books are interesting, but they are just another vehicle to a goal. Respond, or don't. Now that I seem to have gotten the basics they have on file accurate, I just ignore the cards, or politely call the number and let them know I am fine, and not in a position to dom more than allow it. I believe that you also can ask to no longer be included in the book(s).

Simply speaking to some of the members.

It seems to me that you answered your own comment. Other than the paperwork, what is different if the two units, one boy and one girl, actually fly together, as it were? KISS should be the guide word here. Too many of us are far too "anal" much of the time. JMHO

So, at least somebody in the media thought to take note of the Elephant.😬

We can only hope that most who choose to sign in will choose also to adhere to the rules. But, there is never an absolute. And it has little to do with BSA, but rather with the reality of the bad side of human nature. And to think somehow because the precepts of BSA are upright and on target those in it will be also is naive. But, if the heavy majority are being aware and paying attention, it is far less likely to happen.