skeptic

Who can identify this one? THE ART OF CATCHING TRAINS 1. I came through the clothesline maze of childhood in basketball shoes. Up from the cracked cement of sidewalks. Long hair blowing in the breeze from barber-college haircuts. I moved into the country knowing love better than long division. Tricking out with women twice my age we acted out our own French postcards. Dr. Jekyll in the schoolyard, Mr. Hyde behind the barn. After school the trains, their whistles known by heart. Pennies flattened on a rail and dresser drawers with matchbooks from every northern town - thrown by unknown travelers who never waved back. I knew the U.P. right of way so well that gandy dancers called me tow-head till they learned my name and engineers would sometimes whistle down the scale on seeing my arm raised. Baseball's just a sissy game to anyone who's waved at passing trains. You learn from hobos the art of catching trains. Locomotives slow at trestles and whistle stops to hook the mail. Diving through an open box car you lie there till your breath comes back. Then standing in the doorway you're the king as crowns of hills and towns go by and nighttime eats the Summer up and spits the stars across the sky. How did I come to know so many lonesome cities with only pennies in my pockets ? I smiled a lot and rode a lot of trains and got to know conductors and railroad bulls by name. From Alamo to Naples is a ride that took me nearly twenty years. But here I am, my cardboard suitcase traded in for leather. 2. Now a traveler under the gray-black Winter sky moving down the mountain by torchlight, I've come to find a gathering of eagles. Not for the sake of mingling with the great birds, but only to justify a thousand streets walked end to end. Ten thousand evenings spent listening to the small sounds of the night in station after station. Not every town in Switzerland has a golden Gondelbahn, but there are other ways to climb the hills and reach the lonesome cities of the world. Riding friendly bodies you can inch your way to Heaven let alone the far side of the room and who'd deny that brushing elbows in certain streets has not produced for every man at least one vision of Atlantis. For me old habits don't break easily I wait for trains. Sometimes I feel I've always been just passing through. On my way away, or toward. Shouting alleluias at an unseen choir or whispering Fa-do's down beneath my breath waiting for an echo not an answer. Everybody has the answers or they'll make them up for you. Just once I'd like to hear a brand-new question. What about the trains you ride do they go fast or slow would I recognize your face clacking past the poplar trees if I were stationed on some hill ? If I did I'd know you by the look of nothing in your eyes, the kindred look that travelers have, the one that says a tentative hello. If while riding down the rails you see a boy in overalls along the railroad right of way, wave as you go by. Signal with a frown you too are going down the same road. Small boys need encouragement the freight trains in their minds will only take them just so far. Be kind for small boys need to grow.

Speaking of old shows........... One that was a shoo-in was Get Smart; see it now on one of the "oldies" networks. Same station had Combat a year ago; odd how dated it seemed, especially the jeep scenes. Ever wonder how all these supposedly well trained people can shoot so many bullets and still not hit anything? By the way..........They are talking about bullet trains between Frisco and LA. Ooops, got off track again.

Serious; isn't that the dog star? Oh, no, that's Serius. No catty remarks now..............

Perhaps I have missed it somewhere in the blizzard of comments and often circuitous thoughts, but how do these proposals address the "credit card" usury? While it certainly may not be on the level of the home loan fiasco, I cannot help but think if there were forced caps on credit card debt interest and other fees, many people would then be able to apply more money to paying down the debt. Of course the banks need to suck it up and not count on continuing their obscene profit margins on these services. Maybe it is addressed somewhere in all this already, but I have not been able to pinpoint it. What say those of you more schooled in this area?

This current litany reminds me of some of the absolutely inane and silly gabble from a van load of scouts on a long trip, especially if you are only actually catching every third comment. You find yourself trying to make sense of things, chuckling about some of it, and finally trying to tune it out before it drives you nuts. Truly a scouting board.(This message has been edited by skeptic)

Yep, we real dino's may remember when we had quarterly community COH, with all troops represented in a town and awards to troops for advancement categories, skits, and so on. Tried to make that happen again once about 20 years back, and it was not widely welcomed. But, of course, it always brought news coverage back then, which is generally lacking today. Any out there still do this in their areas?

Am I reading correctly; Merlyn and Rooster have come close to agreeing on something? Oh my!!!!

Not sure I want my VP, or possibly P, winking at other world statespeople while in discussions of international import. She did better than I would have thought, but as noted, really did not improve my opinion much. Biden obviously was able to draw on better personal experience in answering. Again, as noted, it would be great to actually see and hear a true debate where the participants actually spoke to each other and actually addressed the subject head on.

Peripherally related to this is an article I saw in PARADE (I think)last week It talks about a man in the SW who has developed portable housing from large shipping containers and is beginning to sell them in Mexico to families living in shanties of old wood, cardboard, and so on. Cost to them less than $10,000, which even there, most can afford. The size is generally about 350-400 sq ft, and includes a small full bath and kitchen, as well as two small sleeping areas. They can be stacked or joined in various configurations to make small clusters for community, or simply set alone. I could not help but wonder if this might not be a plan for dealing with our own homeless in many cases. A bit of donated land (tax write-off), or public space; money paid in welfare or other inadequate income for many on the street could support the cost and get a large percentage into something safer and more sanitary. The point again is that there is a big difference between want and need. Too many of us have either forgotten that, or never knew the difference in the first place for some reason. Just the ranting of another "old guy" born during WWII and raised in a family that lived through the depression. My brother and I were "latch-key" kids in the 50's.

"Scoutingagain"; great post. Next time you go to a market, watch how many people are checking through with numbers of six packs or cases of beer, and often bottled liquor. Often they will add on two or three packs of cigarettes. Same people complain they cannot afford their bills. Lets see, for a hundred dollars or so I can buy enough food to cook at home for two for a couple of weeks; may not be glamorous, but it is enough and fairly balanced. And, reality is that even that is probably more than we actually need many times. How many unworn items of clothing, or pairs of shoes do we need in our closet; I know that I likely rarely wear over half of what is still there, and I have not bought much in the past year. Let's be real for a moment. Even if we as a society are forced to "give up" much of what we seem to think we need, we will still be far better off than most of the rest of the world, even if some of the things we still have are a bit dated.

Yep, the idea of God in us is not necessarily so far fetched. Depending on how you might interpret biblical writings, there are passages that hint at such an idea, starting with the "and God created Man in His own image". While I have gotten pretty rusty on remembering many quotes, it seems to me there are others that most of us would find familiar and could possibly be interpreted in such a manner. Those on this board with better credentials can possibly note them. As far as the scouts go, I do not personally see that being a negative, as it shows a deeper spiritual understanding than simply "God exists" or some such thing.

So, what we seem to have is an understanding that the conference of which we speak is for advancement, but the written description is not worded as such. So, perhaps the people with the ability should review a minor revision of the wording to make it fit the intent, and make it clear that this might lead to secondary, or possibly even tertiary conferences in rare cases. Of course, as a leader, we can also simply tell the scout up front that there is this possibility. No matter what, you will have occasional difficult decisions as a SM, and also occasional misunderstandings or simply demanding scouts and/or parents.

Moderators: at what point do you decide to lock down the pettiness by simply locking the thread? Please, I am getting a headache trying to wade through all this nonsense in hope that something worthwhile may appear. I really would prefer not to simply block them, as occasionally they actually have something to say that is on point and is not petty bickering and fingerpointing. Thanks for listening.

Sorry, but that is too cut and dried, which of course is why this discussion is still happening (well, bull headed and obdurate personalities aside); Most reasonable and legitimate rules/laws should be obeyed, but harmful, or unreasonable ones are subject to question and possible pressure to change, including civil disobedience or similar activity.

Many of you may have read Heinlien's STRANGER IN A STRANGE LAND. I am reminded of the book with these discussions, as the main character (forgot name), who was human, but born and raised on Mars by Martians, and returned to Earth by a later exploration party, often said something to the effect "Thou Art God". The premise in the book, as far as I could ascertain anyway, was the idea that Martians believed God was in everyone, thus the expression, "Thou Art God". The problems arose though from an apparent ritual of what we would call cannibalism, something about becoming one with the other on death. The idea though that God is part of us all, and we are thus part of each other really gives a different perspective on things.

Okay guys; agree to disagree and move on!! This continued nonsense is the kind of thing that will drive people away from bothering to read any more. And that could deprive them of something that is actually useful. Enough already!! JMHO

Well, perhaps we should add something to reflect today's problems; you know, surviving in the urban jungle after you end up on the street. Just kidding!!

My experience is pretty much frustration, with email, a troop site with a calendar, and phone messages. Seldom get any responses to anything. Scouts and parents complain they did not know, but there were verbal reminders, paper reminders, calendar entries, and emails. Being busy is not an excuse. Unfortunately, I think it is simply a reflection of our society again. Unless it is a high priority at the moment, it is ignored. Commitment to anything is contingent on something more interesting or fun not coming along. But that is just me; maybe I am all wet, or simply too old.

Typical guy things, like all else, need to be monitored to make sure they stay "typical" and do not lead to poor decisions. That being said, we all did the arm punching back in "the day"; but we followed the unspoken code to stop when asked. Too much protection is just as bad as not enough; kids need to do kid things. JMHO

nolesrules: While I can understand your comment about leaving things in HOA documents, you need to understand the ridiculous and expensive process, at least in California, it takes to legally change these things. Our original documents dated to the beginning, and were implemented at the start of the association. California law has constantly changed, making many parts of the governing documents unenforceable. Two years or so ago, we finally got them updated. The process took over a year of legal rewriting and ended up costing over $5000. And they still were not in effect until over sixty-four percent of the owners approved the changes; that took another 4-6 months to implement. Of course, since then, some areas of the newly rewritten ones are already unenforceable. But we can not afford to go through the process again at this time, so we just simply ignore them. Still, new owners sign that they will follow these rules. Another example of why lawyers and our legal system are so often excoriated, as well as our so-called representatives.

Yep, a twenty year vet pin from mid 70's or earlier. I have a 10 year similar to it I got about 76 or so, with one Roman numeral; but my 15 has regular numbers.

We had a scout for about 3 years with it, and he struggled a lot with some of its effects. But he was on a lot of meds that kept it somewhat under control. His tics were usually relatively minor, and the outbursts fairly rare. But, on longer outings, especially summer camp, over tiredness and not getting meds on time made it harder for us all. Early on though, with the permission of the parents (actually his father participated)we sat the boys down and simply discussed it with them. That made a huge difference, and he was generally accepted. He finally dropped out as advanced puberty made his meds harder to keep balanced and it became too hard for him and everyone. Not sure if he might not have been an extreme case. The main thing was that the troop members generally understood and dealt with it, sometimes better than adults.

Let's look at this from the perspective of what our society in general does in education. "No Child Left Behind" has proven to be a wonderful idea, but not very practical in the way it is being pushed. Important cultural subjects are being put in the "if we can find time" category, while teachers are basically teaching to the test rather than developing independent knowledge. Passing the test is all that is important; it makes no difference if you forget it afterwards. Scout skills need to be practiced, or they will not be remembered very well, especially pioneering, compass, and even first aid. So teaching the skill and having it replicated satisfactorily is only the first step. There needs to be a way to "keep the skill", by regular all inclusive troop practice and using it in the field if possible. We no longer can do many things in camping that we did even in the 60's due to forest and conservation restrictions. There also is far less need to actually "use" many of these skills. For example, most modern tents, even if they have guy lines, have wood or metal toggles to take tension. Every summer, I have to show kids and adults how to use the taut-line to take up the slack in wall tents, since the toggles are broken or missing. Few of them have really understood the "utility" of the knot. When I was a newbie scout in 1955 I thought I would never make tenderfoot. We had to know seven knots, and in our troop, you tied them all correctly in succession twice. Miss even one, and you came back the next week. Then, even if you did it one week, you had to do it again the next or start over. That was the way it was. In camp, we actually needed to make gadgets because there were no pre-made ones. So, where does that leave us? Find ways I guess to replicate the skills and make them useful? No easy answers, but no matter what, we really need to make sure the scout at least does it completely and correctly more than once, even initially. JMHO

One way to keep the citizenship focus there, but eliminate required badges would possibly be putting them back into a single badge in the manner of the old Civics badge. Some general requirements that are inclusive of all 3 levels, then some more specific focus in one or two requirements for each area. Not sure about Family Life, which is really sort of related to the old Citizenship in the Home and the Family Living skill award. Could also re-institute the grouping ideas for some required badges like we had in the 50's; choose one from -----, that type of thing. But, what would do the most good, IMHO, is to put some time restrictions on the early ranks again; a boy could still get to FC in a year, but it would possibly strengthen the basic skills a bit if done right, especially putting something akin to signaling in again. I know for me, that was absolutely the most difficult part of FC; but it instilled a certain level of life growth by making me focus and work hard to accomplish it.

From what is viewable, I would have to say this is NOT a scouting uniform from that era, or even an earlier era. Frankly, it looks more like the Japanese military uniforms seen in many WWII photos if anything. Realistically, it is likely an outfit put together from what was available at the time under stressful circumstances. JMHO.